Discovering a World-Building, Immersive Platform for Creators by Creators, with Justin Melillo @ MONA

[00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to the Crypto Hipster podcast. This is your host Jamil Hasan the Crypto Hipster where I bring you founders entrepreneurs

[00:00:09] executives thought leaders artists

[00:00:12] Really talented people across the world in crypto and blockchain and today I have one of those very talented people across the world

[00:00:22] His name is Justin Mililou. He is the founder and CEO at Mona

[00:00:27] Justin welcome. Thank you so much Jamil really really nice to be here really appreciate it

[00:00:36] No problem at all. I'm happy you're here and

[00:00:39] Let's kick things off and I'm really interested about in your creative background

[00:00:43] What is your background and is it a logical background for what you're doing now?

[00:00:48] It's definitely a logical background. I'd say my background is in 3d animation and visual effects. And so

[00:00:54] traditionally trained as a as a 3d artist

[00:00:57] and

[00:00:58] Before starting Mona was actually working as a 3d and VFX professional

[00:01:03] I started my career freelancing in New York and then at Dreamworks animation

[00:01:08] before jumping into the AR VR industry by joining Magic Leap, which for those who don't know is a

[00:01:16] pretty major AR

[00:01:18] Spatial computing startup that has raised billions of dollars for you know, their own AR device basically and so

[00:01:25] Yeah throughout my whole career, you know, I've been building in 3d

[00:01:29] I've made a number of AR VR experiences for some major clients and touring artists as well

[00:01:35] And so all this is basically led up to what I do now as the founder of Mona

[00:01:41] Very cool. And then what is what is Mona and then the Mona verse all about including your mission and your vision

[00:01:49] Mona's mission is to accelerate the growth of the open metaverse by providing tooling for developers and creators to launch their own

[00:01:57] Interoperable immersive experiences and assets. So when we think about the metaverse, you know

[00:02:02] We consider it to be the next stage or the next evolution of the internet

[00:02:06] One in which 3d content is ubiquitous and blends seamlessly with the world around us

[00:02:11] But also gives you the opportunity to be fully immersed inside of different types of experiences games apps

[00:02:18] But you know for this, you know open metaverse vision to succeed

[00:02:22] We have to really break down these barriers and closed ecosystems and walled gardens that

[00:02:27] Current apps are kind of accustomed to and so to do that. We're really pushing forward on

[00:02:34] The mission of interoperability of everyone's 3d assets and so put a little bit more simply

[00:02:39] Mona verse or Mona creates a set of tools that makes it easy for any creator or developer to launch their own

[00:02:45] immersive web-based experience or game

[00:02:48] And all these assets are all decentralized

[00:02:51] sort of an ipfs

[00:02:53] immersive worlds avatars wearables 3d objects game props

[00:02:58] They're all tokenized as nfts and they're interoperable and can move freely between different independent platforms and games

[00:03:05] So to date, you know found a moment 2021 and to date now we have over 20 000 immersive worlds avatars objects that

[00:03:13] You know have been have been uploaded in decentralized and are available to use across the open metaverse

[00:03:18] I know i've seen you got you you've been building a lot in the past few months at least, you know before that

[00:03:27] You have a tool called spaces, right?

[00:03:30] How does spaces work and how can creators of any background use mona to create these beautiful most immersive worlds?

[00:03:40] Yep, so

[00:03:41] It's really easy to get started and it's free as well. And so if you want to create an immersive world

[00:03:47] Or an immersive asset you basically can use any 3d authoring software like blender via cinema 4d

[00:03:53] Or you can even sculpt in virtual reality

[00:03:56] You export those assets as glbs and you upload them to mona where they then get decentralized and become available for the open metaverse

[00:04:04] And available to use in mona and across other apps

[00:04:07] And so for for any creator it's really easy to get started and jump in

[00:04:10] We also have a web-based editor tool called mona create that makes it easy for you to pull in assets that you own and build

[00:04:18] You know on the fly straight from the web browser as well

[00:04:21] So you don't have to know programming languages

[00:04:24] Exactly. Yeah, if you know programming languages, it does make it a bit easier and you can build more customizable more interactive experiences

[00:04:34] But you don't need to know programming languages to build for the metaverse

[00:04:39] Great great so

[00:04:42] Three years

[00:04:43] That was the metaverse was it was it was hot topic

[00:04:47] I remember the super bowl that the rams and bangles through well, you had like a dozen metaverse commercials, you know

[00:04:55] Very hot very hype things have died down

[00:04:59] Considerably as far as the metaverse

[00:05:01] Have died down considerably as far as the hype

[00:05:05] you know, um what in that time since last three years has been built and um

[00:05:11] What is the next frontier as far as the metaverse?

[00:05:16] Yeah, it's a great question

[00:05:18] Um, you know, I would say there was a pretty big moment that happened this year with apple announcing and then and actually shipping their

[00:05:24] apple vision pro

[00:05:26] Um, and so when I think about the next frontier of the metaverse, I actually I think about spatial computing

[00:05:31] Um now, you know arvr is not a new thing. It's been around for you know over a decade and uh

[00:05:39] You know, but what makes this moment exciting is that apple now the you know, most popular

[00:05:44] products

[00:05:45] uh, you know

[00:05:46] producer on earth has now shipped their version of of an arvr device which they're dubbing, you know spatial computing

[00:05:53] And I think this is a big moment for

[00:05:57] This whole concept of augmented reality virtual reality to come a little bit more mainstream

[00:06:02] I would say meta facebook. Uh, you know, they've been doing a great job at

[00:06:06] You know increasing the market share of vr devices by offering the quest

[00:06:11] basically at production costs for for consumers to try to

[00:06:14] You know push the the adoption of vr

[00:06:17] And they've been doing a really great job

[00:06:19] but now with apple coming into the scene, I think you know more and more consumers are going to pay attention and

[00:06:24] You know realize that this is really the future that we're we're headed towards one in which

[00:06:28] 3d assets can blend seamlessly with the world around us

[00:06:32] Where you can wear wear a device and it can uh, you know really augment your everyday

[00:06:38] You know can change and improve the way that we consume content the way that we connect with others

[00:06:43] And so when I think about the next frontier, uh, I think about you know, how can we transition from?

[00:06:50] Viewing content interacting with each other via these 2d interfaces of screens

[00:06:54] And how do we make that an entire experience more immersive because that's that's ultimately what's going to happen is that

[00:06:59] You know rather than us being on the zoom call recording a podcast

[00:07:03] Our uh, you know 3d spatial recreations of of each other

[00:07:07] We can actually feel like we're coexisting in the same

[00:07:10] Real world space or virtual space and it can feel much more natural like an actual in-world

[00:07:16] interaction or interview

[00:07:18] And so with that, uh, this is why we're really excited about 3d

[00:07:22] And why at mono we believe that 3d assets are going to become

[00:07:26] Increasingly more valuable as time goes on as we transition to spatial computing

[00:07:31] You know everyone is going to have a stronger need for 3d and we're already sort of seeing it

[00:07:36] With the number of users that are on different gaming and metaverse platforms spending billions of dollars a year on 3d assets

[00:07:43] And gaming assets and so mono is really investing in this giant ecosystem of 3d ugc creators

[00:07:52] To you know fill the immersive internet with really amazing 3d work

[00:08:00] Made me think of a couple things. Um

[00:08:03] Three when I think of when I think of 3d, I think of going to great adventure or something

[00:08:09] We're you know experiencing that or disney. Yeah

[00:08:12] Yeah, yeah

[00:08:14] It'd be cool if we had a podcast that was three

[00:08:16] um

[00:08:18] but

[00:08:18] Gaming is one area where other areas that you see potential growth in this in the

[00:08:24] near to medium term

[00:08:26] Yeah, gaming is obviously

[00:08:28] uh

[00:08:30] Is a very obvious sort of like beachhead market for for this

[00:08:35] Another one I see is education. I think

[00:08:39] Being able to bring the classroom bring your teacher into your real world environment home environment

[00:08:46] You know, I think that education is is another really exciting vertical for spatial computing and the future of the metaverse

[00:08:54] I also think about uh, you know different business use cases

[00:08:59] Where like I think business training industrial training

[00:09:03] um

[00:09:04] you know, I think about uh, you know education and training on the job for different things that

[00:09:11] Could be more cost effective but also a little bit more intuitive and easier

[00:09:16] more interactive

[00:09:18] Um, yeah, they're they're really a number. I mean every every type of social app that that we have today is going to change

[00:09:25] and

[00:09:26] This is why it's also important and why we really believe in

[00:09:29] investing in developers because they're the ones who are really going to forge ahead and build these types of apps and experiences and

[00:09:35] dream of

[00:09:37] Just ways that we can make our everyday lives better by leveraging this

[00:09:41] Immersive tech i'm going to talk about those developers in a little bit

[00:09:48] Abbie a good point about apple spatial computing. Um, I remember when the first I

[00:09:55] not not

[00:09:57] iPhone but ipad or I you know came out and um, you know

[00:10:02] Everybody was like what is this and it took about a decade, you know for everybody to have an iphone

[00:10:08] Yeah

[00:10:09] What do you see? What do you see in a decade with a spatial with the spatial computing?

[00:10:13] What's the world? What do you how you how do you envision the world?

[00:10:17] Well, I think one of the biggest things we're going to see is the form factor of the devices

[00:10:22] Is going to come down significantly over the next decade

[00:10:26] So right now the devices that are available are more akin to you know, ski goggles, you know

[00:10:31] A large quite large headset that you have to wear

[00:10:34] Um, and over time that form factor is going to get down closer to the size of just a normal pair of glasses

[00:10:42] Um, and then if we look at a decade plus, uh, we're looking at different things like contact lenses even you know

[00:10:48] retina implants

[00:10:50] Um, you know if you think a little bit further ahead as well

[00:10:54] You can consider the future of bci or you know brain computing interfaces

[00:10:59] In ways that we can interact with immersive content just by thinking

[00:11:05] About it versus using a you know a tactile input

[00:11:09] Um, but yeah, I think one of the first things we're going to see is chips are going to get more powerful smaller

[00:11:14] The form factor is going to come down cameras are going to get more powerful with the hardware for cameras

[00:11:19] Uh, and so if you look at something like quest 3 apple vision pro specifically apple vision pro and the quality of their

[00:11:25] pass-through technology today

[00:11:27] That's going to improve exponentially over the next decade

[00:11:30] Uh, and even even today when i'm inside of the device, you know

[00:11:33] The longer i'm in it the the more I forget that i'm just viewing the world around me through the lenses of a camera

[00:11:39] And you know through a screen and so as as that improves, uh, you know as that resolution gets higher

[00:11:45] Um, you know that experience is is going to be even even better and the lines are just going to get further blurred

[00:11:52] Uh between reality and and the virtual so yeah, I would say form factor is going to be one of the biggest things

[00:11:57] Really excited about bci

[00:12:00] And then I also think about the different types of content, you know today, uh, you know gaming is kind of like that first market

[00:12:06] we're going to continue to see more of that but

[00:12:08] uh as

[00:12:09] Adoption increases there's going to be more of a demand for different types of social apps

[00:12:14] You know as we talk about education industrial use cases, but also entertainment as well

[00:12:19] Um, you know being able to sit court side at a nix game

[00:12:23] But the court is actually in your living room via volumetric capture. So

[00:12:28] Um, yeah, I would say as infrastructure gets better hardware gets better. It's just going to accelerate the the growth and adoption of the space

[00:12:36] I'm a sixers fan and that nix comeback

[00:12:40] You know something

[00:12:45] So

[00:12:46] One of the big fights over the past few years has been you know, uh, we

[00:12:52] people who believe in the future of

[00:12:55] uh self-sovereign web3

[00:12:58] individuals

[00:12:59] versus the facebook's version of the metaverse

[00:13:03] Should the metaverse be web3 and how are solo content creators doing compared to these?

[00:13:11] huge monoliths as

[00:13:14] In this area

[00:13:15] Yeah, the metaverse absolutely needs to be web3. I think the internet needs to be web3

[00:13:22] Overall, I really believe in this feature of the decentralized internet

[00:13:26] Placing more more power into the hands of of the actual users creators

[00:13:32] You know self-sovereign ownership over our assets over our data over our social graphs

[00:13:37] All this is extremely important, especially when you then consider the metaverse and immersive worlds

[00:13:44] And so yes, absolutely. That's why you know, our platform is is built on blockchain technology

[00:13:50] Uh in terms of how individual creators are doing I think there's been no better time to be an independent creator

[00:13:57] I think one of the most amazing things that blockchain enables because of its composability

[00:14:02] uh, and because of the ability to

[00:14:05] launch a smart contract

[00:14:07] uh, it

[00:14:08] gives creators the ability to actually become independent artists in their own right by minting and selling their work

[00:14:15] Uh by being able to collect perpetual royalties on their work by integrating different types of new economic flows that are all just automatic

[00:14:24] Whereas in web2, you know, we have to rely on different ways to you know, make agreements and accept payments

[00:14:30] blockchain just makes this entire system so much easier, especially for independent creators

[00:14:35] And I think up until now there have been certain models that have been established in web2. Um things like app store models

[00:14:43] things like

[00:14:45] You know monoliths taking 30 50 cuts from creators who are building work from users who are interacting on their platforms

[00:14:53] And that's that's going to change. I think those models are going to be soon broken down

[00:14:58] and I think blockchain is a great equalizer in this respect and so

[00:15:02] You know in terms of independent creators, uh, we have many who have joined mona a few years ago and are now full-time

[00:15:09] Uh 3d artists full-time metaverse creators because of the ability to you know

[00:15:14] Create immersive worlds and sell them and continue reaping a profit on them even after they've been created once it's a much better

[00:15:21] professional path or I should say much more sustainable path for becoming a professional artist than a traditional model of you know

[00:15:29] Working as a freelancer like I was or working in a studio having a nine to five it really

[00:15:35] Places more more power into the hands of the individual and into the hands of the creator and so

[00:15:41] Yeah, it's a really really exciting time for for people to be building especially to be building in 3d

[00:15:51] Very cool. Um, so I want to get into I want to get into those developers, right?

[00:15:57] um

[00:15:58] I've created a a buildathon, right?

[00:16:02] Um, it's an event or series of events. I want to find out more information about it

[00:16:07] Uh how it can be a spark?

[00:16:09] for for further

[00:16:12] Developers to join in and start building the metaverse

[00:16:15] um

[00:16:19] Yeah, um, so one of the ways mona when I began in 2021

[00:16:22] Um after we were founded to launch the platform, uh our partner protocol labs and filecoin actually

[00:16:28] um, you know, they conducted our first buildathon with us where

[00:16:32] Filecoin put up over $200,000 usd

[00:16:36] To encourage these world builders developers creators to get into the space and start building and tokenizing immersive worlds

[00:16:43] And that was just so amazing. We ended up with with hundreds of new worlds because of that one buildathon

[00:16:49] Um protocol labs then sponsored the next one that we did in the spring

[00:16:53] uh of

[00:16:55] 2022

[00:16:56] Um, and again same similar result. We ended up with thousands of immersive worlds and 3d assets that were then decentralized

[00:17:03] Um, and it was these buildathons these hackathons. They're such a great model to encourage

[00:17:07] Creators and developers to get into the space

[00:17:09] I would say probably about 80% of the creators and devs who came in through those initial hackathons

[00:17:15] And who continue to come in through the buildathons

[00:17:17] Probably around 80 are actually entirely new to blockchain and web 3

[00:17:22] As well, and so, you know, I think they're also a really good opportunity to show

[00:17:26] You know, hey like this is a different model. This is a different way for you to become successful

[00:17:30] As a as an independent creator developer

[00:17:33] And so we really really love

[00:17:35] Encouraging and supporting creators via these buildathons and hackathons

[00:17:41] Were they artists to begin with or would they come from diverse backgrounds?

[00:17:45] Yeah, very diverse backgrounds. Some of them were full-time

[00:17:49] game artists or game developers working at AAA studios

[00:17:54] Many of them were indie developers building their own games. You know, many of them are also

[00:18:00] Professional 3d artists or even just hobbyist 3d artists and creators who like to tinker with 3d or sculpt in virtual reality

[00:18:07] So you really you've got a got a whole spectrum of creators from all different backgrounds and from all over the world, which is really special

[00:18:16] Very cool

[00:18:17] That sounds very cool. Um, so

[00:18:20] If somebody wanted just wanted to join the buildathon or get involved how could they how could they do that?

[00:18:26] How could they do that?

[00:18:28] We run buildathons and hackathons probably

[00:18:31] You know pretty regularly probably around once once every month or once every couple of months

[00:18:36] And we either run them internally just sponsored by mona or we work with different partners

[00:18:40] so I would say if you're someone who's listening and you can benefit from

[00:18:44] Uh, you know the marketing attention of having a large number of developers creators building

[00:18:49] Immersive assets to help promote whatever platform or product you have

[00:18:53] Then if you just go to monoverse.com, we have a partnerships forum

[00:18:57] Just fill that out if you'd like to get involved there if you're creator or dev

[00:19:00] And you'd like to get involved in the next buildathon

[00:19:03] Um, similar similarly go to monoverse.com and sign up for our email lists

[00:19:07] We regularly post emails about new opportunities coming up like this and also join our discord as well

[00:19:14] Which there's a link straight from the website and then you'll be in the know when we launch our next buildathon and hackathon

[00:19:20] Great great so something i'm i'm

[00:19:24] I'm struggling with is you know, i've talked a lot of people who said the metaverse

[00:19:29] Uh what you're doing has a very like long tail like deep tech

[00:19:33] You know, um, and it seems like you've made the whole entire

[00:19:38] Process a lot easier and simpler and faster

[00:19:42] um, you know

[00:19:44] Is is the I guess

[00:19:47] Everything's been expedited or is the future still?

[00:19:50] A long tailed future

[00:19:52] Um, you know or should we be looking at this two different ways?

[00:19:57] I don't think that it's going to happen overnight

[00:20:00] I don't think that we'll just wake up one morning and we're suddenly in the metaverse now

[00:20:05] um, I think what we're seeing is that it's a gradual adoption

[00:20:09] And it's happening in different ways, you know when I when I think about the metaverse

[00:20:13] I like many people have this vision put forth by

[00:20:19] You know stories like ready player one

[00:20:22] And you know that was adapted into a movie and I think it was a really great way to visualize this

[00:20:27] Or you know, if you're familiar with snow crash where neil stevenson first coined the term metaverse

[00:20:31] I think that was that's always sort of been the big idea. Uh these

[00:20:36] Persistent immersive worlds that are all interconnected and allow us to live a virtual life fully inside of them

[00:20:43] Um, we're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly that's it

[00:20:46] But what we're seeing is that uh, we're seeing inklings of what the future is going to look like we're seeing

[00:20:51] You know hundreds of millions of daily active users spending time inside of virtual worlds

[00:20:56] You know whether it's inside of a decentralized platform like monas or inside of fortnight or roblox

[00:21:03] Or many other games that allow you to purchase virtual assets have a virtual identity

[00:21:08] Identity via an avatar connect socially with your friends and spend time inside of virtual spaces

[00:21:13] Uh, this is the very beginning of what the future is going to look like

[00:21:17] And then you know, we're starting to see some other really promising

[00:21:21] First steps towards the direction of full immersion in ar, you know things like magically palo lens

[00:21:26] Of course quest of course apple vision pro and so it's going to be a gradual adoption over time

[00:21:31] I think you know, there is a long tail to it but um, you know today

[00:21:36] You know

[00:21:36] I see a number of companies like mona meeting users where they are where they're at today and where you know

[00:21:42] The most value can be provided as we you know, uh move forward towards this longer vision of spending more time inside of virtual spaces

[00:21:53] Sounds good to me. Um

[00:21:56] So I want to look at your your background includes animation, you know, um

[00:22:03] Over the years, you know, I was a cartoon fan when I was a kid. I loved the smurfs, you know

[00:22:08] Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course

[00:22:10] But now I go to the reason like the animation looks like real

[00:22:13] Right. Yeah

[00:22:15] Yeah, it's a long way

[00:22:17] So what it has I mean

[00:22:20] What do you think the future of animation and vfx?

[00:22:24] our

[00:22:26] fx professions

[00:22:30] Yeah, um

[00:22:32] So it's really interesting because animations began as uh, you know pencil on paper

[00:22:37] Uh photographing individual frames that have been hand drawn

[00:22:41] You know 24 30 frames every second playing back

[00:22:45] Uh, and then you know with with pixar and an apple pushing forward on computer animation

[00:22:52] Um and pioneering this new way to produce an animated film

[00:22:57] um

[00:22:58] You know we we can kind of now see the future of this going beyond what is has traditionally been known as like offline rendering where

[00:23:06] Typically like today you if you're you know in a in an animation or film studio

[00:23:12] Or even if you're if you're just an indie creator if you're using a software like maya or blender and you want to produce

[00:23:17] An animated short typically you have to render each frame

[00:23:21] individually and the computer does a good job of just

[00:23:24] Badging all these frames together and then playing it back in a video

[00:23:26] But what we're watching is actually like 30 frames a second in front of us 30 frames being shown

[00:23:31] every second and um

[00:23:33] What's exciting is that with real time rendering, um, you know, it's accessible through game engines like unity like unreal engine

[00:23:42] Uh, we're starting to see real time rendering the quality of real time rendering

[00:23:46] Get into parity with the quality of offline rendering

[00:23:50] And so what we're seeing is more and more virtual productions happening where movies are sometimes entire movies are filmed entirely on a green screen set

[00:23:59] And filmed in real time or many of the posts done in real time using a game engine versus

[00:24:05] Um, you know having to wait hours and hours for for frames to render on a render farm

[00:24:10] So I think real time rendering is really key for the future of animation of the effects. Um

[00:24:16] But then I also think about ai

[00:24:18] And I think ai is going to just accelerate the creation process even further and offer creators and users a much wider variety of content

[00:24:27] Because of what what can be created on the fly using generative ai, so

[00:24:31] Um, yeah, I see the future being a mixture of um, you know real time rendering plus ai to help aid in the creation

[00:24:39] In the creation process

[00:24:43] Do you have companies like pixar? You have dreamworks?

[00:24:47] um

[00:24:47] Hollywood's a juggernaut, right?

[00:24:50] Yeah

[00:24:51] Do you see the evolution of the independent creator getting you know

[00:24:55] These movies out there in the same way because the tools are the tools are level on the playing field

[00:25:01] Um, what do you see there?

[00:25:04] Yeah, um, absolutely

[00:25:06] Uh, I think you know hollywood. I don't I don't see hollywood going away

[00:25:09] But I definitely see more of an opportunity for independent creators to become successful

[00:25:15] Um because of uh, the tools just having become more more accessible over the last decade

[00:25:21] So, uh, yeah now again, uh

[00:25:24] Now is is really one of the best times to jump in and become a 3d or immersive creator

[00:25:30] Uh, the tools are cheap or you know, pretty much free for anyone to go and create their own immersive real-time content

[00:25:37] Um, and now very easily, uh, you can spin up your own short film or your own film

[00:25:44] Just using your own laptop without requiring much more than that

[00:25:48] And so, uh, I think we'll always have different types of content again

[00:25:51] I don't think hollywood's going away

[00:25:53] Uh, they they built a really amazing machine and they have some of the world's best writers and talent that are creating content

[00:25:59] But uh, yeah, I do see a much larger opportunity today for independent creators

[00:26:03] Especially when you consider the viewing behavior and the consumption behavior of users today with people

[00:26:10] Getting more and more accustomed to viewing short form content attention spans getting shorter

[00:26:15] So I think there's a big opportunity for independent creators to continue to um, you know push out content and grow following by

[00:26:22] Just producing more short form content

[00:26:26] Those would be like

[00:26:28] Added the animated shorts in a short documentary or stuff like that. You see the academy of course, right?

[00:26:34] Yeah, yeah, I think so. Um, but I you know

[00:26:36] I'm also really excited but one of the things that spatial computing enable is going to enable is a new form of content

[00:26:41] creation as well

[00:26:43] Um, you know with your with your phone now, you can actually go out and capture parts of your world using photogrammetry and recreate them in 3d

[00:26:52] Um pretty soon volumetric capture is going to become more and more accessible to the masses

[00:26:56] And so, uh, yeah, I see a new form of content being being born as well

[00:27:01] um, you know, well we're starting to see a few independent creators really really tinkering with it but over time

[00:27:08] Uh, you know

[00:27:09] Spatial computing is just going to give birth to a whole new way of a new generation of content and creators

[00:27:15] Many of them will be independent

[00:27:20] I'm wondering when I went when I when it was a good time for me to switch over to from from

[00:27:25] zoom where we're talking right now at the spatial computing

[00:27:29] I should get involved now if I should apply

[00:27:33] You could yeah, I mean the vision pro makes it makes it possible

[00:27:37] You definitely could mission pro quest like the tech is there it's it's still very early, but uh, you you could do that today

[00:27:45] I'm gonna look into this more after we're done. So yeah

[00:27:49] Yeah, we could do some i'll do some tests with you if you want. I'm happy to yeah

[00:27:52] Happy to work with you on it

[00:27:54] Very cool. Thank you. Um, yeah

[00:27:58] I want to thank you very much for your time today more to be more to be revealed later on but um

[00:28:04] You know my last my last question is this is um, how can people find more information about you?

[00:28:10] About mona, how can they join the boldify? How could I ask that but i'll ask it again

[00:28:14] How can they uh, you know get more details on you or how can they do that?

[00:28:19] Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me jameel. It's really been a pleasure being here

[00:28:23] Really enjoyed chatting with you

[00:28:25] Um, if you'd like to get involved with mona if you'd like to learn more just visit us at monaverse.com

[00:28:30] Um

[00:28:32] Follow us on twitter for all of our um, you know most timely updates so we're on twitter at monaverse

[00:28:39] If you'd like to reach out to me directly my dms. My inbox is open

[00:28:42] You can just reach out to me at justin at monaverse.com

[00:28:46] Also would love to plug we're doing a weekly curated collection of 3d nfts minted on base

[00:28:52] So we're curating work from some of the world's best metaverse creators who are in the mona community

[00:28:57] Uh, and so every week we uh have a free claim

[00:29:01] So you just go to the monaverse.com website and right on the home page

[00:29:04] You can click claim now and uh, you can get a free glb base nft that you can then take with you across mona and across other platforms

[00:29:14] That i'm gonna do right away

[00:29:18] Amazing awesome. Thank you very very much

[00:29:23] Yeah, thank you so much jameel really appreciate it