How to Empower Decentralized Order Book Exchanges, with Tim Wang @ Elixir

[00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to the Crypto Hipster podcast. This is your host Jamil Hasan the Crypto Hipster

[00:00:07] Where I interview founders entrepreneurs executives thought leaders

[00:00:11] artists amazing people all around the world and

[00:00:15] You guessed it. I have another amazing guest

[00:00:18] Wow, my guests are great

[00:00:20] Fantastic. So his name he is usually CEO at

[00:00:26] Elixir his name is Tim Wang Tim. Welcome to the show today

[00:00:32] Happy to be here. Thanks for having me

[00:00:34] You're very welcome. It's an honor. So

[00:00:37] Happy you're here. So let's kick things off and I'll ask you first, you know

[00:00:41] What is your background and is it a logical background for what you're doing now?

[00:00:46] Yeah, sure. So I've been in crypto for about

[00:00:52] Three years now so before crypto

[00:00:55] I spent roughly 10 years in traditional finance

[00:01:01] across a range of industries

[00:01:04] So I started my career in investment banking

[00:01:08] Covering kind of financial technology companies

[00:01:12] and then moved on to

[00:01:15] private equity where similar industries so business services financial services

[00:01:20] Where I kind of did a number of growth equity deals

[00:01:25] and then kind of through that process I

[00:01:30] Became interested in early stage investing. I started angeling myself

[00:01:35] And then kind of wanted to kind of institutionalize that

[00:01:41] That kind of Tata recognition so I joined a

[00:01:45] VC fund in New York called ENIAC

[00:01:48] And then it was through ENIAC that I kind of got my first exposure to crypto. I mean I did

[00:01:54] Have and I bought some ETH in like 2016, but that was like I basically bought and sold it the same month

[00:02:02] Obviously, I should have held but I didn't

[00:02:04] but my first kind of formal for a back into

[00:02:10] Into the crypto world was via ENIAC. This was

[00:02:15] Probably like late 2020 or early 2021

[00:02:18] as

[00:02:19] Kind of DeFi summer

[00:02:22] Was starting I was basically spending all of my nights

[00:02:27] in

[00:02:28] In on chain playing around with protocols, right and then I was like, well

[00:02:33] Why don't I just like kind of collapse my my day and night jobs?

[00:02:38] And so I hopped from ENIAC to

[00:02:41] early stage kind of crypto VC funds

[00:02:44] And

[00:02:45] Called MetaWeb. I spent about nine months there for the opportunity

[00:02:50] At Hudson River Trading, which is kind of the hat I'm wearing right now

[00:02:55] Hudson River Trading is a

[00:02:57] HFT firm basically what they do is kind of

[00:03:01] They trade on sub second frequency in and out of trades, right? So effectively market making for

[00:03:09] equities ETFs

[00:03:11] Options you name it. They're probably

[00:03:14] in in that market, I believe they're kind of one of the

[00:03:18] Largest by volume in terms of US equities on a daily basis

[00:03:23] And and they were kind of interested in building out a crypto VC practice

[00:03:29] And so I joined to kind of lead up those efforts

[00:03:33] And then kind of the opportunity at illusor came up. I was

[00:03:38] Similar to like a lot of my other things that I'm involved in was was an angel and in elixir

[00:03:45] and

[00:03:46] Got got to know the team pretty well

[00:03:49] And kind of post the the series a they wanted to bring in kind of an additional

[00:03:57] BD operations person right like we had elixir are

[00:04:03] Roughly like 15 people and there's like three of us that do most of the BD

[00:04:08] operations work and then everyone else is pretty much like

[00:04:12] Like devs and engineers building the protocol and and all of that. So

[00:04:19] I mean like at its core elixir is basically like

[00:04:23] You can think of it almost like a market maker

[00:04:26] Right, like the the core protocol itself is

[00:04:30] Like an algorithmic

[00:04:34] Machine that helps power changes and that ties in pretty well with like my my prior experiences like

[00:04:41] Like you know even tying it back to like by my first job at JP Morgan. I was covering

[00:04:47] like trading firms and and and

[00:04:50] infrastructure for for exchanges and I think I actually

[00:04:54] Worked on one of the larger kind of exchange mergers back then

[00:04:58] When ice bought the nice II so this all kind of ties back together

[00:05:04] To to the beginnings of my career sounds like a ties together nicely

[00:05:11] So very cool. Very cool

[00:05:14] So you mentioned elixir was an algorithmic training. So what what's what makes you have a

[00:05:22] Unique primitive you have a unique unique approach to this. So what makes you different is then out from the rest?

[00:05:29] Yeah, so you can think of elixir like the simple analogy I like to draw for elixir

[00:05:37] Kind of how how you know SWAT?

[00:05:40] Invented the AMM right basically allowing

[00:05:43] retail participation into

[00:05:46] liquidity and earning fees generated from pools

[00:05:50] We are basically building the equivalent

[00:05:53] primitive for order books

[00:05:56] And order books are kind of these

[00:05:59] It's like a trade different kind of trading mechanism where like basically

[00:06:04] Every second you're trading into liquidity that is being quoted

[00:06:08] by either a market maker or an HFT firm or

[00:06:15] somebody else like an elixir

[00:06:17] the there is a basic level of

[00:06:22] Sophistication that's required. So like retail can't really do it on their own unless they're already

[00:06:29] They are they do trading themselves right because like if you if you if you kind of port over the

[00:06:36] Primitive like Uniswap right like basically like you're sitting in a stale pool of capital right and anybody that trades against it

[00:06:43] Trades against a curve whereas like if you just leave a stale order up on an order book

[00:06:49] Like if you trade like most of the time that you're being traded against like you're losing money, right?

[00:06:54] Because it's either like price has moved

[00:06:57] Somewhere else in a more liquid market. So like most crypto liquidity

[00:07:01] starts from like finance, which is obviously like one of the most liquid crypto changes

[00:07:07] And then moves down towards like less liquid markets, right? So like

[00:07:11] for example if like

[00:07:14] Bitcoin price changes on on

[00:07:17] On Binance and you have a stale order sitting on like I don't know some Ethereum chain

[00:07:24] Let's say like base for example, right like like there is gonna be a market makers that's gonna arbitrage you right?

[00:07:30] Like basically they'll they'll pick pick your order off, right?

[00:07:34] And they'll be able to like sell that order immediately on Binance and then they'll take the spread right?

[00:07:39] So like say like it's like a dollar of difference, right?

[00:07:43] They do that trade every day like multiple multiple times a day, right? And that's how kind of they make money

[00:07:49] and so we basically

[00:07:51] Allow kind of we we raise kind of the basic level of

[00:07:58] sophistication for retail right like we have a a

[00:08:02] Quantitative developer that's kind of like

[00:08:06] That's been trading in the crypto markets for for a long time. He's developing this basically

[00:08:11] algorithm that

[00:08:12] Keeps orders fresh. So like our protocol updates orders every second

[00:08:18] So every second we're like flashing liquidity onto the order book and then pulling it, right?

[00:08:23] And so basically there's like only a second of opportunity for somebody to like pick off the order and then like we update that based on

[00:08:30] kind of

[00:08:31] inputs oracles price changes on exchanges

[00:08:35] And that's kind of how

[00:08:37] We protect and shields

[00:08:40] retail

[00:08:41] liquidity

[00:08:43] From market makers while allowing them to buy

[00:08:46] While allowing them to provide liquidity to order book exchanges, which is something that basically you can't do today

[00:08:54] So you're looking at it. You're looking at it like kind of like a frequent pool

[00:09:01] That's really instantaneous

[00:09:03] Yeah, so it's like every every second the prices that effectively if you're depositing say

[00:09:11] $10 into a pool right like every second you're you're you're basically updating your own orders

[00:09:17] But like our protocols doing it for you

[00:09:21] Very cool. So you open up lots of opportunities then for liquidity and yield for customers

[00:09:25] Yep, exactly and and like and exchanges are only paid for this liquidity, right?

[00:09:29] Like if you if you talk to I don't know like the larger order book exchanges like dydx or kind of hyperliquid or

[00:09:37] Any of the other ones like we work currently with uh, five exchanges. So we work with

[00:09:43] uh rabbit x

[00:09:45] vertex

[00:09:46] bluefin ensuite

[00:09:48] um, we just

[00:09:50] Announced our orderly integration and then uh apex is launching I believe

[00:09:57] Or actually apex early live as well. So that's five exchanges that we work with

[00:10:02] And they're all already paying out incentives to these pools, right?

[00:10:05] Like they're paying market makers some percentage of their token supply

[00:10:09] Or like some percentage of the trade fees that are generated within within these pools

[00:10:14] Right and like normally without elixir integration like they're just paying these fees out to like two or three

[00:10:20] Market makers right and they're like eating the bulk of the the supply and the tokens

[00:10:25] um or the fees, right?

[00:10:28] But but with us right like they can they can kind of democratize those fees and and the tokens, right?

[00:10:34] So like it's like people that

[00:10:36] Either trade on their exchange already or kind of have idle capital just sitting around between trades

[00:10:42] so like if they're

[00:10:43] Like in between trades and they have like usdc right they could deposit it directly within the exchange to

[00:10:50] Uh the order books on that exchange

[00:10:53] Got it

[00:10:54] Sounds good

[00:10:56] um sounds really good, so

[00:10:58] um

[00:10:59] I want to I want to talk about

[00:11:02] Because you had this experience. I want to talk about vcs and well vcs funds angels

[00:11:06] You know

[00:11:07] We have a recent like

[00:11:09] Last week. I was at consensus and the big and there was

[00:11:13] Happy that you know, the bills got passed by congress and that you know the sec rule

[00:11:18] It's really which really is awful rule

[00:11:20] You know was going to be denied and then president biden vetoed it

[00:11:24] So you still have now you have more regulatory uncertainty than you had last week

[00:11:29] You know, uh

[00:11:31] What does the future look like for vc funds in the lens of this, you know uncertainty?

[00:11:37] um, I mean I think like

[00:11:41] Like obviously deal activity

[00:11:43] in the first half of this year was like

[00:11:46] has picked up significantly I think like

[00:11:50] Uh from a vc perspective right like if you're investing now, you're probably not

[00:11:55] Getting any tokens until the next fair cycle, right? And like like if you think about traditional vc structures

[00:12:03] uh

[00:12:04] Like it's probably like a safe list of token warrant right? Like there's probably like a one-year cliff

[00:12:10] After tge until you get your tokens, right? So like

[00:12:13] At a minimum right like if you're investing in a project now, like even if it's like a later stage project, right?

[00:12:19] They're not launching their token

[00:12:21] Probably this year, right? So you're looking at a

[00:12:24] either late 2025 or 2026 like

[00:12:28] Start to getting returns on the fund

[00:12:31] um, and so I mean that coupled with more

[00:12:36] Uncertainty I would say probably like

[00:12:39] Mutes activity in crypto vc for at least the next couple months

[00:12:45] um, and obviously like election cycle and all of that right like it could they could go all the way

[00:12:50] to november when there's like more visibility in terms of like

[00:12:54] what regime looks like and

[00:12:56] um

[00:12:57] And all of that. Um, but yeah, obviously like there's also like I don't know

[00:13:02] Like trump is now more crypto friendly supposedly, but he's also on a bunch of federal charges, right?

[00:13:10] And like what does that look like right? Um, and so I mean like yeah, like I think

[00:13:15] The thing with vcs too is that like over the summer they're they're less active. Anyway, right?

[00:13:20] Like like the worst times to raise traditionally are like around starting now until labor day

[00:13:27] And then like around the holidays like post thanksgiving into christmas like those are just lull times in vc and that's like

[00:13:35] across

[00:13:36] Traditional vc and crypto vc as well. So you really don't see more any marketing activity till september october

[00:13:46] Um, I I mean I think

[00:13:47] I mean personally i've seen much more activity like earlier this year like I I still angel into things myself

[00:13:56] Um, but yeah, there's been like less

[00:13:59] And less interesting things and then fewer deals that that i've seen over the last couple of weeks slash more

[00:14:08] Got it

[00:14:09] so

[00:14:11] Recently we had this ethereum etf right and earlier this year we had

[00:14:16] Bitcoin etf

[00:14:18] and

[00:14:19] Brad carlinghouse and some others think that the next round of ets will be

[00:14:24] Solana cardano on xrp, you know, what do you see the next round of etfs and why?

[00:14:33] Yeah, I mean the natural kind of

[00:14:36] progression would be

[00:14:38] something like solana right like the the whole thing around if

[00:14:44] Getting approved where I like was that like

[00:14:47] Like staking yields basically make me look quasi security like

[00:14:52] And once if etf got approved right like all of these like proof of stake network become viable for

[00:15:01] kind of

[00:15:02] Uh at least like under the the the youth etf per view

[00:15:07] More kind of less like securities, right? And so if you take the same contract, right like market cap of

[00:15:14] L1 right? Like if we kind of don't break out of the mold of like

[00:15:20] L1 ets right like solana would be kind of the next

[00:15:24] obvious choice

[00:15:27] I mean there's i've heard of like a couple other kind of

[00:15:31] Like interesting ideas, right? Like like doge coin which is

[00:15:36] Like a meme coin

[00:15:39] That's like for sure not a security right and like there's a ton of holders

[00:15:45] Uh, ylan tweets about it all the time on twitter or x whatever you call it now

[00:15:50] um

[00:15:52] and that could be an interesting one like

[00:15:54] Chainlink could be another interesting one right? Like it's like a purely

[00:15:59] Mostly kind of fully emitted token. Uh, there's kind of a a rabid fan base like link marines

[00:16:07] Um

[00:16:09] Uh, and like purely utility token too, right? Um that

[00:16:13] as like

[00:16:15] Pretty good partnerships, right? They they've announced a number of kind of

[00:16:19] financial institution

[00:16:21] related partnerships with chainlink right and

[00:16:24] from kind of

[00:16:26] broader institutional adoption point of view like that could be an interesting one

[00:16:31] um

[00:16:32] But yeah, like I think the natural choice would probably be a supply idea

[00:16:39] Got it. So

[00:16:41] Ethereum has a few things that maybe solana does or doesn't I don't really follow this line of the ecosystem too too much

[00:16:48] Um, but I do know that you know, I was before

[00:16:52] By one of my friends our family. I you know, how do you buy an eth?

[00:16:57] Uh, you know node and i'm like, I don't think that's the current state of how to make money on ethereum

[00:17:03] I think it's staking

[00:17:05] Liquid staking restaking I don't really know too much of the difference between them

[00:17:10] But it looks to me like that might be the future of defy

[00:17:13] So, um, how do you see it? And what else do you think will be happening within the next year to be the future of defy?

[00:17:20] Yeah

[00:17:22] Yeah, I mean like running your own own node

[00:17:25] Like this particularly on eth is like still pretty high barrier entry, right?

[00:17:29] Like I think the the minimum requirement for a node is like still 32 eth

[00:17:35] which like most people can't afford right and so

[00:17:39] uh, kind of

[00:17:41] Defile 1.0 was like liquid staking with like lido and and and a bunch of others

[00:17:47] Right, like with eigen layer launching their token and there's a bunch of like

[00:17:52] Liquid restaking protocols that have launch tokens as well, right? Like effectively what?

[00:17:58] What they're doing is like a shared security, right? Like using

[00:18:04] Staked eth as kind of another layer on top of the

[00:18:08] So like that's kind of a trend that's been playing out this year

[00:18:13] I mean there's like things like bitcoin ecosystem

[00:18:18] Stuff right like there's a number of l2s right like

[00:18:22] Uh ordinals runes right like people still kind of like to collect things, right?

[00:18:28] Like even though nft

[00:18:30] Uh volumes and prices have gone down dramatically, right? Like

[00:18:36] Once there's a new new primitive like runes that comes out right? There's still a lot of hype. Um, and so

[00:18:43] um

[00:18:44] I think there's still a decent amount of runes activity on bitcoin

[00:18:47] um

[00:18:48] and then I think it's like

[00:18:51] Like people talk about ai

[00:18:54] And the intersection of ai and crypto, um, and there's

[00:18:58] A number of projects that are kind of I mean very early quasi interesting

[00:19:05] um

[00:19:06] basically

[00:19:08] like if you think about ai as a

[00:19:12] a major force in just

[00:19:15] uh kind of

[00:19:17] revolutionary technologies, right like

[00:19:19] uh

[00:19:20] There is something to be said about like decentralizing ai, right?

[00:19:24] Because like if somebody run has like all of your data and like basically can

[00:19:30] uh

[00:19:31] make a

[00:19:32] Humanoid ai copy of you right? Like then they basically could control your life, right? There's like a lot of these like

[00:19:39] newer phishing kind of spoofing attacks that happen and so

[00:19:44] um, I think

[00:19:46] The goal potentially with like crypto times ai is like more of a deepened narrative where

[00:19:51] Uh, no no no one party has access to all the data right and like you can kind of shard the data

[00:19:59] And put it back together with the right keys and whatever

[00:20:02] Um, so so that that's like one of the things that like people are speculating on right?

[00:20:08] Crypto times ai is a hot topic that the vcs have been investing in

[00:20:13] um

[00:20:15] But yeah, it's it's way too early to be seen like how actually useful or impactful that will be

[00:20:21] I mean ai in the in the traditional technology space is still

[00:20:25] Still fairly early as well

[00:20:28] You know, it's interesting because I made a point of it to attend

[00:20:32] I mean I had some interviews at um at consensus fire, you know

[00:20:36] On the ground podcast, but I did make a point of it to attend the vc discussions on ai

[00:20:43] and

[00:20:44] Across all the panels there was no uniform decision or uniform

[00:20:48] Concept of what is the next you know next area of the intersection of blockchain and ai

[00:20:54] And some of the vcs didn't even know if there was a token or crypto that was focused on that, you know

[00:21:01] so

[00:21:02] Um, you know you were around for defy summer. When do you see ai summer and how what would be the catalyst for that to happen?

[00:21:10] Uh, I mean there's like

[00:21:13] There's like a few

[00:21:16] Highly speculative tokens out there right now, right? Like the the one that people majorly point to is like this this this

[00:21:24] Project called bit tensor. I think the the ticker is tau

[00:21:28] um

[00:21:30] Uncertain how actually useful the protocol is but like people

[00:21:34] Buy and sell tokens as speculation around a general theme

[00:21:37] Right and and I know kind of there's a couple other projects and i'm actually

[00:21:43] Kind of angeled into probably two of them that that will be launching tokens. One is probably coming out like q3

[00:21:50] um

[00:21:52] Uh, they're launching their own chain kind of with like multiple kind of tokens

[00:21:57] There's a a basically worker token that you can mine and then there's a governance token

[00:22:03] And so that one could could get a decent amount of hype

[00:22:07] um, and then I don't know if you've kind of

[00:22:10] Uh followed the news, but there's another project that's like doing uh, ai data availability. So like the intersection of

[00:22:18] uh, kind of

[00:22:20] ai times what celestial is doing called zero g they raised I think they announced the raise

[00:22:28] Maybe

[00:22:29] Three or four months ago. So i'm guessing that token is probably

[00:22:33] a q4 q1 2025 token

[00:22:36] Um, and then we'll see I mean like there's there's not a lot of kind of ai

[00:22:41] tokens out there right now that

[00:22:43] Could have utility

[00:22:46] And so we'll we'll see kind of the demand for it once those tokens launch

[00:22:52] Yeah, i'm looking forward to it. So um

[00:22:56] Something else the back something that baffles me like

[00:22:58] I'm just trying i'm trying to get my head around it because then I

[00:23:02] We see all the the growth we see all the development

[00:23:04] We see everybody like building all these projects

[00:23:07] and still

[00:23:09] Apple's worth three three trillion the entire crypto industry is 2.7 trillion, right?

[00:23:15] um

[00:23:15] I'm thinking this should be much much bigger

[00:23:18] Right. Uh, I have a struggle really mightily with that discrepancy of why it's not

[00:23:25] You know, um

[00:23:27] Why do you think yeah? I mean, I think it has to do with

[00:23:31] Some general narrative right like we because we are crypto adopters

[00:23:38] live in a in a microcosm right like

[00:23:40] I I couldn't tell you

[00:23:43] What's going on in like?

[00:23:45] In the real world right now, right? Like like major news events. I generally have an idea but that's like because of how

[00:23:55] Influences uh token prices, right? It's like bitcoin is still

[00:24:01] pretty heavily influenced by broader macro and like s&p and like

[00:24:06] World trends, right? So like obviously I like know of those

[00:24:10] Events but like if you kind of flip it on its head, right?

[00:24:13] Like if you're not a crypto adopter, right? Like you would never really

[00:24:17] hear about crypto related things unless it's

[00:24:20] from a friend who is a crypto adopter or from

[00:24:24] the broader news media

[00:24:26] Which is still pretty anti-crypto, right? Like I think most of that still comes from

[00:24:32] Like the top right it's like regulatorily

[00:24:36] It's still a kind of a taboo thing like people still think it's like

[00:24:41] Mostly scams right like like whatever narrative

[00:24:45] uh

[00:24:46] Kind of the government or politicians want to spin on it, right?

[00:24:52] and so

[00:24:53] I think

[00:24:54] Like right now as as we're getting back into

[00:24:58] a more full cycle, right with with uh

[00:25:02] like more mean coins and things that like

[00:25:06] Get people interested right? Like prices are up which obviously helps right and like

[00:25:11] Price up going up means that like more

[00:25:15] uh risk

[00:25:17] Loving kind of investors come seeking

[00:25:20] Uh longer tailed assets, which if you're already invested in like large tech stocks, right? Like

[00:25:26] crypto or holding whatever is on coinbase is just a just an extension, right and so

[00:25:34] I I think I mean well, we'll see with with the next election cycle of like how

[00:25:40] How how how things are shaped from the top, right? Um

[00:25:44] I mean, I mean for the as you mentioned earlier about kind of

[00:25:48] Biden for a week or so seeming more

[00:25:53] Open to the idea of of of

[00:25:57] Supporting crypto or at least like optically supporting crypto to not lose the the single issue voters

[00:26:05] uh

[00:26:06] I mean

[00:26:07] We'll see if it's like both candidates have something positive to say during during the debates

[00:26:16] I'm voting for a third party candidate

[00:26:19] um

[00:26:21] You said taboo

[00:26:22] and then earlier you said doge

[00:26:24] and then

[00:26:26] I saw a post this morning right before I interviewed from on telegram that i'm a credible, you know our it's a credible source that

[00:26:33] That elizabeth warren came out this morning and said

[00:26:37] meme coins

[00:26:38] Are causing cruelty

[00:26:40] to animals

[00:26:42] Uh is bogus right but um, and you mentioned taboo, you know

[00:26:48] How do we get?

[00:26:50] the the the

[00:26:52] Blatant lies and the blatant, you know misinformation by the top

[00:26:57] out of the way

[00:26:59] You know so that we can have a good path going forward for the industry

[00:27:04] I mean, I think

[00:27:05] I actually do think like

[00:27:08] Like the etf like ostensibly

[00:27:12] Like is is is a big step in the right direction. I think

[00:27:17] Like I I do think that like

[00:27:20] There there something had to have happened

[00:27:23] because

[00:27:24] like like within the the democrat democratic like party, um, because I think they

[00:27:31] They they realized that like they were going to lose a ton of voters if they didn't do

[00:27:38] Something that looks like a step in the right direction

[00:27:42] Um, and and i've I have like lawyer friends and um who are relatively close to

[00:27:50] At least like policymakers on on the issue of crypto and like even as as recently as like

[00:27:57] Two or three months ago when I was catching up with them feels like yeah

[00:27:59] There's no way any uttf is getting approved this year, right?

[00:28:03] And like look at how quickly that changed and and I think that

[00:28:08] the the pivot

[00:28:10] Was like much more rapid like it probably happened within like a few weeks. Um,

[00:28:15] so

[00:28:16] Uh, and then obviously like like if you look in the senate, right? Like people cross the aisle to to vote

[00:28:24] like

[00:28:25] pro crypto, right and so

[00:28:28] um

[00:28:29] I do think that like

[00:28:31] on the topic of like elizabeth war and I think like

[00:28:34] At past a certain point she just like become a meme of sorts, right?

[00:28:38] Because like if you look at her her track record, it's not very good

[00:28:43] Like she just becomes a talking

[00:28:47] talking and walking

[00:28:49] uh meme almost right and so

[00:28:52] um, I mean I I guess like

[00:28:55] because like

[00:28:57] congressmen and congresswomen have

[00:29:00] basically like

[00:29:01] Like almost like life terms, right? Like you just have to kind of live with that for a bit. But

[00:29:07] um

[00:29:09] It's it's one of those things that like I like if you never choose to to try to understand

[00:29:15] more deeply like

[00:29:16] it'll just be a

[00:29:19] a nuisance

[00:29:20] But I think the the broader path to adoption is getting getting more clear. Sounds good

[00:29:28] I'm looking forward to seeing what unfolds in the next year

[00:29:31] um, so

[00:29:33] I want to thank you

[00:29:35] Very much for speaking with me today

[00:29:37] um, this was fun and I enjoyed the conversation and I have one last question for you, um

[00:29:43] Pretty simple. How can people find out more information about you?

[00:29:47] Um about elixir but what you guys do become customers users clients. How can they do that?

[00:29:54] Yeah, um, I think twitter is probably the best way to stay

[00:29:59] up to date on on the progress of the protocol so

[00:30:03] Uh our our handle

[00:30:05] Um is just at elixir e l i x i r

[00:30:09] Um, we actually like had a different handle but we actually bought the bought the bought the single name

[00:30:16] Handle from from somebody earlier this year

[00:30:19] And then me personally probably on twitter as well. Um

[00:30:25] I'm at dgen tw underscore

[00:30:28] um, i'm

[00:30:30] I sport a a pepe that wears a princess peach outfit

[00:30:35] So, uh, yeah, follow me on on socials and and keep up to date on on elixir as we progress

[00:30:42] Awesome. Thank you very much for your time today. Cool. Thanks so much