Mohd Kifa leads the Compliance Department at Flipster ensuring that the business stays on top of things when it comes to Rules, Risks and Controls.
[00:00:00] Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Crypto Hipster Podcast. This is your host, Jamil Hasan, the Crypto Hipster, where I interview founders, entrepreneurs, executives, thought leaders, amazing people all around the world in crypto and blockchain. And I have another amazing guest for you today. He is the head of compliance at Flipster. This man's name is Kifa. Kifa, welcome to the show.
[00:00:27] Hi, Jamil. Thank you. Thank you for taking time to have me on your call.
[00:00:31] You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to be here, for you to be here, and a pleasure for me too. So let's kick things off. I'll start out with the same question with everybody. What is your background, and is it a logical background for what you're doing now?
[00:00:50] That's a very interesting question. The second part of it, right? When you say it's logical. I mean, well, I started my career as a senior investigation officer with the police force.
[00:01:02] More particularly, I was with the Financial Intelligence Unit in Singapore here.
[00:01:07] That's where I learned everything about compliance, about financial crime, yada, yada, everything else, right?
[00:01:16] And from then on, I moved on to traditional finance, a few banks, TenShot, RBS, UBP, before I took the leap of faith to join the crypto industry.
[00:01:30] My very first formal job was as a chief of compliance for Bitstamp. We were trying to get the license in Singapore with the MAS.
[00:01:43] And once we were successful in that, I moved ahead and I joined Flipster. And I'm trying to do something similar for them as well.
[00:01:51] And well, I'll leave it to you to guess whether it's logical background or not, based on this.
[00:01:58] It sounds to me like, yes.
[00:02:03] I think like two and a half years ago, I interviewed the chief of compliance at Capital, who was also from the police force in Singapore.
[00:02:16] We talked about Mars Steeler, which is a great case to talk about.
[00:02:23] So that was Flipster, right?
[00:02:27] Flipster, what's Flipster all about, including your mission and your vision and your goal there?
[00:02:33] I mean, Flipster, as everybody knows it, it's also another cryptocurrency trading platform, right?
[00:02:41] But I think what's unique about this company is that it's fast growing.
[00:02:48] That's how I see Flipster to be versus all the other exchanges that we are looking at in the industry.
[00:02:54] It is something that is trying to go larger beyond its size of volume, beyond its size of operations.
[00:03:06] The type of liquidity that it is offering to its clients, the rapid execution, the smooth trading experience that is always gunning for, right?
[00:03:17] It makes it look as a very unique company in the industry, in my view.
[00:03:24] And by far and large, I think this is something that is going to grow very much within the industry.
[00:03:30] It's going to be around, I would say.
[00:03:33] I mean, it was founded in 2021.
[00:03:35] And until today, we have millions of users across 180 countries, right?
[00:03:41] And we have approximately $20 billion in monthly trading volume.
[00:03:45] And that's huge, actually, I think, coming to think that it's just about two years that these guys are pretty much in the market.
[00:03:54] So, well, if you're going to ask me what's in store for the future, I would say that Flipster is going very much regulatory and compliant pathway.
[00:04:07] We are trying to explore more spaces, more jurisdictions where we can actually operate with a proper license and registration.
[00:04:14] I think that is one of the core elements in the founder's mind and the manager's mind at the moment.
[00:04:21] And I'm really happy to be part of this journey right now because I think I can help them achieve that somewhat with whatever sort of experience I have.
[00:04:31] Yeah.
[00:04:34] Okay.
[00:04:35] Okay.
[00:04:35] My podcast is in 111 countries.
[00:04:40] I'm in college with some of the other ones, right?
[00:04:43] You're in 180, which, you know, obviously you're trying to get to every one.
[00:04:49] So what are some of the challenges to get into the final ones that, about 20 or so, that you haven't been able to get to yet?
[00:04:56] And why is it a challenge?
[00:04:57] I mean, like I said, right.
[00:05:00] So for a very long time, I think we were just concentrated based on a single license or registration.
[00:05:08] So that is not the sort of approach or strategy that is not just for Flipster, but any other exchanges outside.
[00:05:18] They are slowly discovering that if you want to reach out to the mass, to the Europe side, to the Asia, to the Americas, you got to have a foothold in all those areas and countries.
[00:05:31] Right.
[00:05:32] And that only begins with having proper registration licensing.
[00:05:35] And when you do that, you gain the trust of your users, you gain the trust of your consumers.
[00:05:42] And automatically, I think you will start to have an increased number of users signing up with your cryptocurrency exchange.
[00:05:52] And that's the sort of strategy that Flipster is going for at the moment.
[00:05:57] We want to do it right.
[00:05:59] We want to do it in a compliant way, in a regulated way.
[00:06:02] And we want to have a trusted, long-lasting relationship with our clients.
[00:06:09] And that is probably the reason why we are still left out in those 20 or 30 countries.
[00:06:17] And sooner or later, we'll get those licenses, I guess.
[00:06:21] Nice.
[00:06:22] I'm interested to see what the...
[00:06:24] I'm assuming Myanmar is one.
[00:06:27] But there are others like Sudan, South Sudan.
[00:06:30] I'm sure that might be a challenge, but I'm impressed.
[00:06:34] So let's talk about something, perpetual futures, right?
[00:06:42] How can perpetual futures trading be leveraged to navigate market volatility generally?
[00:06:48] And then I'll ask you a little bit more about today's market environment.
[00:06:51] Yeah.
[00:07:21] In milliseconds, right?
[00:07:23] So if you could see Bitcoin just did another huge, what do you call, history in the price.
[00:07:33] So while...
[00:07:36] And the fact that it's volatile, there's no intrinsic value behind these cryptocurrencies and whatnot,
[00:07:43] is probably the reason why when it comes to perpetuals or future contracts, there's always this thing about,
[00:07:51] hey, is this legit?
[00:07:52] How is this working?
[00:07:54] What's going to happen to my money?
[00:07:56] What's the type of risk that I should take and whatnot?
[00:08:00] At the end of the day, I still believe the fundamentals are the same.
[00:08:04] The principles are the same.
[00:08:06] You are going to make, based on the private movements, right?
[00:08:11] Speculation.
[00:08:12] You're going to speculate on both sides of the market, up and down.
[00:08:15] It's just not that because Bitcoin is going down, you're going to lose money.
[00:08:20] You probably will be able to have a chance to make some profit based on the long and short position you're going to take.
[00:08:28] So I think the principles are the same.
[00:08:30] Fundamentals are the same.
[00:08:31] It's just a matter of you trying to be a bit more hardworking in this crypto market,
[00:08:36] because you need to be really aware of how the prices are moving,
[00:08:40] the news that is happening outside, trying to be on top of the regulatory environments, for instance.
[00:08:47] For example, I can tell you that if, let's say, tomorrow Hong Kong says something about its regulations towards crypto,
[00:08:56] that's really going to affect the price.
[00:08:58] Immediately, it's going to affect the price.
[00:08:59] And if you're not on top of it, you're going to miss that.
[00:09:02] And you're going to miss the opportunity to make the profit, or in fact, even suffer a huge loss.
[00:09:09] So I think it's all about agility, being a very agile and savvy investor.
[00:09:14] If you're into crypto, if you're into perpetuals, in that sense, and make sure that you know what you're doing.
[00:09:22] So that's how I see the transactions or trading to be.
[00:09:30] Yeah, Bitcoin was, a few days ago, it was 99, and now it's 91.
[00:09:36] Exactly.
[00:09:38] A lot of it was 60, and now it's 220.
[00:09:41] True, true.
[00:09:42] 35% pulldowns, and over the weekend, I'm looking at my portfolio.
[00:09:47] I'm like, I'm up 10,000 one minute, five minutes later.
[00:09:50] I'm down 10,000.
[00:09:53] So how do you use to reduce volatility in people's portfolios, right?
[00:10:00] Correct, correct, correct.
[00:10:01] I mean, like I said, right?
[00:10:03] You just need to be a bit more hardworking in crypto.
[00:10:07] It's as simple as that.
[00:10:08] You can't take chances.
[00:10:10] You can't, okay, I know I'll take a day break today.
[00:10:13] I'll take a day off.
[00:10:14] I think you'll need to be constantly aware of what's happening in the market.
[00:10:19] One thing, maybe I'm biased towards it because I'm coming from the regulatory point of view.
[00:10:24] I think whatever the news that your country's central banks are going to make with regards
[00:10:33] to the regulations surrounding cryptocurrency, digital assets, is affecting the prices a lot.
[00:10:39] That I've seen it in the last two quarters over here.
[00:10:44] How, you know, for example, US was really clamping down a lot on crypto, on ETFs and whatnot.
[00:10:53] And boom, when Trump is the next president, everything is like, you know, happy, right?
[00:11:02] So everybody's like, you know, this is the future.
[00:11:05] You know, Bitcoin is going to be the way forward and blah, blah, blah.
[00:11:08] So all these things matter a lot.
[00:11:11] It's just not a matter of, you know, saying how the prices fluctuate from normal market conditions and whatnot.
[00:11:19] Yep.
[00:11:21] Awesome.
[00:11:22] Awesome.
[00:11:22] So I want to talk, before I get into compliance, I want to talk about that.
[00:11:26] Right.
[00:11:26] About retail users being able to use, how do they do it?
[00:11:30] How do they use perpetual features?
[00:11:32] Before I do that, I just want to name some of the top gainers today and top losers, right?
[00:11:36] Some of the top gainers are Big Dog Fink, Us Land Meow, and some of the top losers are Justice for Peanut and Fred, Bill, and Dolos the Bully.
[00:11:53] I mean, yeah, you could do perpetuals in Bitcoin, but how do you tell retail how to do perpetuals on memes?
[00:12:01] Or, you know, how do they get involved in the perpetuals when they don't know, like, what they're buying?
[00:12:06] Exactly right.
[00:12:07] So this is something that we always discuss back in our office, right?
[00:12:11] There's always this issue about meme coins.
[00:12:14] All regulators, all compliance department wants to get rid of them.
[00:12:18] But at the same time, you can't do that.
[00:12:20] I think that basically, you know, is the bloodline lifeline of the industry, somehow or other.
[00:12:27] You have the Bitcoin, you have the Ethereum, you have all the Solana and whatnot.
[00:12:32] But without the meme coin, there is no industry.
[00:12:35] That's a fact.
[00:12:36] That's a matter of fact.
[00:12:37] You can't live without them.
[00:12:39] But at the same time, you really, really need to be aware of what you're doing.
[00:12:44] It's back to fundamentals and basics again for investing, right?
[00:12:48] Know what you're buying.
[00:12:50] If you know that this is an apple, make sure it's an apple, right?
[00:12:53] If you know it's an orange, make sure it's an orange.
[00:12:55] Just because you hear someone post something on Reddit or someone, you know, you just heard it during a lunch break or something should not spur you to quickly go and put, I don't know, like 10 lots into that particular meme coin and whatnot, right?
[00:13:12] So make sure you know what kind of project it is, who are the people behind it, what is the type of news that you have gained, information you've gained about a particular meme project.
[00:13:26] And that will give you a concerted decision on whether you would want to basically invest in it or not, right?
[00:13:34] And of course, you start with a demo account, for instance, right?
[00:13:39] Whether it's a crypto exchange, you want to go for meme or you want to go for Bitcoin.
[00:13:44] If you are very new, you're a retail user, start with a demo account, you know, put in a little bit of money if necessary.
[00:13:53] If not, use all those freebies that that exchange is throwing at you.
[00:13:57] Get a hang of, you know, how the whole ecosystem is, how it works, how the market moves for a particular coin and get attuned with it.
[00:14:09] That's how you need to do.
[00:14:12] It can't be a one day magic like, you know, OK, today I start trading, tomorrow I'm a millionaire or, you know, I make half a million and whatnot.
[00:14:21] You need to have the appetite to be able to be a loser in this market.
[00:14:25] And that's absolutely necessary.
[00:14:28] You can't go in a spiral once you start to lose your money and whatnot.
[00:14:32] You've got to be a bit more confident, I would say.
[00:14:35] And all this takes time, effort and a lot of patience, I would say.
[00:14:41] So be there for the long game and not just to make that quick buck when the market is hot, I would say.
[00:14:52] And what else can I say?
[00:14:54] Last but not least, just make sure you don't put all your eggs in one basket.
[00:14:57] Come on.
[00:14:57] I mean, if you're going to put in some meme coins, make sure you have some, you know, in a proper Bitcoin or ETH or, you know, something which is very stable to offset any losses that you can see.
[00:15:09] Yeah, I agree.
[00:15:12] Oh, I bring up the meme coins because and, you know, you have your background in law and justice and, you know, police work.
[00:15:21] There's something that happened over and I don't really fully I wasn't fully, you know, tracking what was going on.
[00:15:27] But there was a pumped up fun.
[00:15:30] And so bad things happened over the weekend.
[00:15:34] Pumped up fun.
[00:15:35] You know, how do we like what happened and and how do we prevent that from happening again?
[00:15:41] Yeah.
[00:15:42] So, I mean, this is a very good topic that I just brought up because this is something that, you know, we ourselves.
[00:15:48] Thankfully, we've got a very good team, financial engineering team at our end.
[00:15:53] We have good systems and processes which actually help us to alert such market movements.
[00:16:00] Right.
[00:16:01] And market manipulation that happens.
[00:16:04] So it's so at least for an exchange like us, we need to equip be equipped with such, I would say, automatic and manual processes.
[00:16:16] Right.
[00:16:16] In order to see if a market manipulation is happening, we got to we got to we got to stop it at that particular instance.
[00:16:25] Quickly investigate what is the what is the reason that the market is moving so much and try to understand what's happening at the background.
[00:16:33] Right.
[00:16:33] And just to give you a case in point, we this is just one example.
[00:16:38] We have caught many like this where, you know, we have a we have a trader who signs up an account with us.
[00:16:45] He colludes with a lot of other people around him, goes on all this chat rooms and whatnot, and they start to inflate the price.
[00:16:55] Right.
[00:16:55] And somehow or rather, if your systems and processes are sharp, they are good.
[00:17:00] You'll be able to pick these nuances up.
[00:17:03] And when we picked him up, we were able to quickly track him to all his friends who he referred through the referral program and their friends and their friends and their friends.
[00:17:13] And it came to a point where we investigated and quickly within, I think, a span of three hours or four hours, we're able to stop the activity, stop their trading, block the accounts, go to them and tell them that, hey, look, you know, we are blocking your account for investigative purposes.
[00:17:34] And at the end of it all, we found out that they tried to manipulate the whole exchange with a particular meme coin, that is.
[00:17:44] And we were able to prove that and claw back whatever they tried to make of us.
[00:17:51] So it all boils down to the systems and processes, as well as the people that you have in your company who's able to actually track it down.
[00:18:02] And I think Flipster, we are very thankful that, you know, in Flipster, we have such a solid system.
[00:18:08] And it's not the first case that we have caught. Right.
[00:18:11] So we have caught a few cases over this last one or two years, I would say.
[00:18:15] And we keep learning, we keep improving and making it a bit more solid at our end when it comes to market manipulation, I would say.
[00:18:25] So if something is too good to be true, probably it isn't.
[00:18:29] So that's the thing. I mean, what I can tell the retail users is just don't get swayed by such quick movements when it comes to a particular meme coin or whatsoever.
[00:18:40] Be ready to be informed, be informed about what's happening.
[00:18:45] Go and make your own research and then make an effort or decision on how you want to trade in that particular coin.
[00:18:53] Don't be the last one to lose it all.
[00:18:58] Yeah, I know what that's like.
[00:19:02] So I want to I want to shift gears to a little bit more regional.
[00:19:07] I'd say, you know, you mentioned Donald Trump was elected and the market went up.
[00:19:12] You know, we still are working.
[00:19:14] They saw us to work with Congress and work with the new SEC chair to come up with sensible regulations.
[00:19:20] But Asia has been, you know, kind of the leader in compliance and regulations.
[00:19:27] And I wanted to find out, you know, what are some of the trends that you're looking at right now, regionally in Asia that will impact the rest of the world headed into 2025?
[00:19:37] What's the appetite like and where do you see things headed?
[00:19:41] I think for a very long time, there's always been this issue about digital assets, whether they are an asset or they are a mode of payment.
[00:19:53] Right. So this has always been the issue.
[00:19:58] If let's say I'm going to use a Bitcoin to buy a coffee today, it may cost me one dollar.
[00:20:05] Tomorrow, my Bitcoin will be worth hundred dollars.
[00:20:07] Right. For instance. Right.
[00:20:08] And how does that equate to that one coffee, which I was supposed to buy yesterday and whatnot?
[00:20:14] So I think I think there's a lot of clarity being being achieved at the moment over the last few years, I would say, where, you know, not just in Singapore or Hong Kong,
[00:20:26] but I think even the neighboring countries are waking up to the reality to really, really separate your your your virtual currency,
[00:20:34] I would say, as either as a mode of payment or as a asset that should be put in the market for trading and speculative purposes and whatnot.
[00:20:46] So in terms of that, I think the regulation surrounding how you want to assess a particular token.
[00:20:55] Right. How you want to do a token assessment, how you want to list it and what is the type of controls that you have in place to ensure that there's no market manipulation comes about is pretty much adopted very strongly at the moment.
[00:21:10] So I think the regulations are being drawn up and I think they will come into motion pretty much in Singapore as well as Hong Kong.
[00:21:21] That's one thing. The other thing is, of course, stable coin regulation.
[00:21:26] Right. The Singapore and Hong Kong alike, you know, we are expected to introduce the regulations specifically targeting the stable coins.
[00:21:35] In fact, I think some of us have already done that for Singapore.
[00:21:38] I think it's pretty much very clear. They have put that into legislation and and and making it the sort of so they are driving towards a point where they want to say that, hey, look, this is your mode of transfer.
[00:21:51] This is your mode of payment that you can use. Right. Instead of, you know, it being used as an asset purpose for speculation and whatnot.
[00:21:59] So that is being drawn out very carefully and put it out to the market.
[00:22:07] And a lot of the crypto exchanges are picking on that.
[00:22:10] They want to do a lot of partnership to ensure that, you know, they have this MAS regulated stable coin that is available to them such that your users can make use of that to make cross-border payments,
[00:22:25] to make purchases online where necessary and whatnot.
[00:22:31] Yeah, that's that's pretty much I think I would say the regulatory trends at the moment.
[00:22:36] And of course, not to forget, you know, there's there's also the tokenization of assets.
[00:22:40] That's also in its infant stage, in my opinion.
[00:22:44] I think a lot of things needs to be done to make that regulations very clear.
[00:22:51] This is so. OK, so how about South?
[00:22:55] How about South? There was some movement in South Korea as well. Right.
[00:22:59] In the seem to be, you know, vacillating.
[00:23:02] That's what I think. Right. Changing their mind.
[00:23:05] Like what is what is their outlook? Do you know?
[00:23:09] I think South Korea, I'll be honest with you because I do not really focus on that market so much,
[00:23:19] but I do know that they are also picking up the pace like the rest of the Asia.
[00:23:25] And as you know, they are strict.
[00:23:29] They have been very strict, very clear with their regulations and whatnot,
[00:23:33] especially when it comes to the investor protection and their consumer rights, I would say,
[00:23:38] because I think I think they would want to ensure that those exchanges,
[00:23:43] which they have given licenses, have the first and the proper authority to actually function there without any problem,
[00:23:50] ensure that they are able to service their clients and protect their South Korean clients.
[00:23:55] So that has always been the case in South Korea and the regulators over there.
[00:24:00] And I think I think that's that that's healthy.
[00:24:02] That's really about, you know, taking care of the South Koreans,
[00:24:06] the users over there to ensure that their money is not lost in any other
[00:24:12] degen sort of exchange, I would say.
[00:24:14] So I think it's just not for South Korea per se,
[00:24:19] but I think every other country in Asia is also ensuring that this is a reality.
[00:24:25] Right. And it's part of the regulations.
[00:24:29] If you want to operate a crypto exchange,
[00:24:31] make sure you disclose everything to your clients as much as possible.
[00:24:38] And your client should be well aware of, you know,
[00:24:41] simple things like, you know, your proof of reserve.
[00:24:43] Right.
[00:24:44] Or even to the extent where is your hot wallet located?
[00:24:47] Where is your cold wallet located?
[00:24:49] You know, what's the ratio between that?
[00:24:51] So those kinds of things are being drawn up into regulations and MAS,
[00:24:54] for instance. So they are very, very clear as to how they would want to allow a
[00:25:00] cryptocurrency exchange to operate.
[00:25:02] And I think it's really,
[00:25:03] really healthy from an exchange point of view,
[00:25:05] because this type of prescriptive regulations will only make sure that,
[00:25:10] you know,
[00:25:10] we don't go wrong, you know,
[00:25:12] or do the wrong things and whatnot.
[00:25:14] So I'm really happy about it.
[00:25:17] Such developments is happening in Asia and we are being the front runner in implementing that.
[00:25:25] I agree.
[00:25:26] I always look to Asia to see what you guys are doing and what the U.S. should be doing.
[00:25:33] You know,
[00:25:34] something that people don't talk,
[00:25:36] at least on X and LinkedIn,
[00:25:39] some people talk about is,
[00:25:42] you know,
[00:25:42] for the past few years,
[00:25:43] they say China has banned Bitcoin.
[00:25:46] China,
[00:25:46] by the mind is wonderful.
[00:25:47] Last week,
[00:25:49] it was in Shanghai that says cryptocurrency is a commodity and it's fully legal to own it.
[00:25:57] Right.
[00:25:58] And it's not what's talking about it,
[00:25:59] but they bringing it back.
[00:26:01] Right.
[00:26:01] True.
[00:26:02] True.
[00:26:03] What are you seeing coming out of China that no one's talking about that is,
[00:26:07] is running back to the market that's going to have a huge impact?
[00:26:11] So you,
[00:26:12] you see for the very longest time,
[00:26:14] China was very much,
[00:26:16] um,
[00:26:17] had,
[00:26:17] had chilled itself away from this industry.
[00:26:20] It,
[00:26:20] it kind of like made it a bad actor.
[00:26:23] You know,
[00:26:23] cryptocurrency means it's money laundering.
[00:26:25] It's,
[00:26:25] it's,
[00:26:26] uh,
[00:26:26] it's,
[00:26:27] it's whatnot.
[00:26:27] You know,
[00:26:28] those sorts of things,
[00:26:29] but it's waking up to the reality that,
[00:26:31] you know,
[00:26:32] um,
[00:26:33] it cannot live without it.
[00:26:34] I think everyone will agree that,
[00:26:37] um,
[00:26:38] cryptocurrency,
[00:26:39] Bitcoin or anything else is here to stay.
[00:26:42] It's just a matter of trying to make sure,
[00:26:44] um,
[00:26:45] uh,
[00:26:46] the regulation surrounding it is clear such that your users,
[00:26:50] your citizens,
[00:26:51] uh,
[00:26:52] are not the losers at the end of it all.
[00:26:54] So I think China had,
[00:26:56] has done,
[00:26:57] had done,
[00:26:58] wait and see approach in my opinion for the very longest time.
[00:27:01] It has,
[00:27:02] it has seen how,
[00:27:03] um,
[00:27:05] countries such as Singapore,
[00:27:07] Hong Kong,
[00:27:07] for instance,
[00:27:08] or,
[00:27:08] or any other Asian countries here,
[00:27:10] uh,
[00:27:11] have,
[00:27:11] have kind of like shaped the regulations towards it.
[00:27:13] It has looked at how Europe has,
[00:27:15] has shaped its regulation towards it.
[00:27:17] The U S how it has shaped its regulations.
[00:27:19] And I think it is,
[00:27:20] it is,
[00:27:21] um,
[00:27:21] it has taken enough time to study and understand what it should allow and what it should not allow.
[00:27:28] Right.
[00:27:29] And,
[00:27:29] and it's coming out to give you a very clear message at the end of it all.
[00:27:33] Right.
[00:27:33] If it had not done this and,
[00:27:36] uh,
[00:27:36] it had,
[00:27:37] uh,
[00:27:37] dabbled,
[00:27:38] uh,
[00:27:38] up and down,
[00:27:39] you know,
[00:27:39] changes regulations up and down,
[00:27:42] um,
[00:27:43] every now and then it would have sent a very distorted message to its 1.1 billion citizens in its country.
[00:27:51] And,
[00:27:51] uh,
[00:27:52] that's going to cause a lot of chaos in my opinion.
[00:27:55] Right.
[00:27:55] So I think,
[00:27:56] I think it is very clear on how it's seeing,
[00:27:59] uh,
[00:27:59] these digital assets.
[00:28:00] And I think it's,
[00:28:02] it's a way forward for the rest of the world,
[00:28:04] uh,
[00:28:05] given that,
[00:28:05] uh,
[00:28:06] there's a huge population waiting to,
[00:28:09] um,
[00:28:09] capitalize on,
[00:28:10] on what's going to come in this industry.
[00:28:12] Um,
[00:28:12] from China.
[00:28:13] Yeah.
[00:28:14] Yeah.
[00:28:15] That sounds,
[00:28:15] that sounds right.
[00:28:16] Um,
[00:28:18] you know,
[00:28:18] when I,
[00:28:18] when I think of China,
[00:28:19] I think of,
[00:28:20] I think of our fame,
[00:28:20] one of the famous,
[00:28:21] uh,
[00:28:22] founders that ever in this space,
[00:28:23] I think of CZ.
[00:28:24] Yep.
[00:28:26] He actually,
[00:28:26] the other day and said,
[00:28:27] he's at,
[00:28:28] and I read it on Twitter,
[00:28:29] this or X this morning,
[00:28:30] he said he was advocating for real blockchain adoption over meme coins.
[00:28:35] You know,
[00:28:36] um,
[00:28:36] what do you see coming down the pike as far as real adoption?
[00:28:39] How do we get there?
[00:28:40] How can you guys help get the next billion retail user,
[00:28:43] 1.1 billion retail users on board?
[00:28:46] You know,
[00:28:47] um,
[00:28:47] what do you see the outlook for 2025 as far as the use of real blockchain apps?
[00:28:53] Um,
[00:28:53] it's,
[00:28:54] it's,
[00:28:54] it's only going to get even more,
[00:28:55] uh,
[00:28:57] uh,
[00:28:57] even more,
[00:28:58] uh,
[00:28:58] concentrated,
[00:28:59] I would say,
[00:29:00] a lot of,
[00:29:01] um,
[00:29:03] uh,
[00:29:03] you see traditional banks are going to blockchain right now,
[00:29:07] not just for cryptocurrency per se,
[00:29:09] but even to set up their own accounting and ledger systems.
[00:29:13] Um,
[00:29:13] they are moving to that sort of a decentralized sort of,
[00:29:16] uh,
[00:29:17] uh,
[00:29:17] protocol,
[00:29:17] right?
[00:29:18] So,
[00:29:18] um,
[00:29:19] um,
[00:29:20] it's just not in banks,
[00:29:21] it's just not in cryptocurrency,
[00:29:22] but everywhere else,
[00:29:24] um,
[00:29:25] blockchain is going to become a reality.
[00:29:27] Um,
[00:29:27] it is,
[00:29:28] it is something that,
[00:29:29] uh,
[00:29:29] cannot be,
[00:29:30] um,
[00:29:32] erased in,
[00:29:33] in simple words.
[00:29:34] It can't be erased off,
[00:29:35] um,
[00:29:36] um,
[00:29:36] the,
[00:29:37] the,
[00:29:37] the ecosystem,
[00:29:38] right?
[00:29:38] And simply for that matter,
[00:29:40] it is going to be become very prevalent.
[00:29:42] And,
[00:29:43] um,
[00:29:43] I think what I see right now is just the infancy stage where people are
[00:29:47] experimenting.
[00:29:48] Some fail,
[00:29:49] some,
[00:29:49] uh,
[00:29:50] make it very successful.
[00:29:51] And how it is,
[00:29:53] um,
[00:29:54] let's say I'm giving it another two years,
[00:29:56] uh,
[00:29:57] given the space of things to make this thing,
[00:30:00] the mainstream across all industries,
[00:30:02] not just finance,
[00:30:03] not just cryptocurrency per se,
[00:30:05] right?
[00:30:05] Every other industry is going to adopt it.
[00:30:07] And,
[00:30:08] uh,
[00:30:08] if someone doesn't know what blockchain is or how to be part of it,
[00:30:13] I think,
[00:30:14] uh,
[00:30:14] that's,
[00:30:15] that's something that's not going to happen in the next two years,
[00:30:17] in my opinion.
[00:30:18] So everybody is going to be part of this.
[00:30:20] Everybody is going to learn.
[00:30:21] Uh,
[00:30:22] how to make use of such a system,
[00:30:24] uh,
[00:30:26] of the ecosystem and whatnot.
[00:30:27] So,
[00:30:28] I mean,
[00:30:28] why I'm saying this is because whenever I started,
[00:30:30] uh,
[00:30:31] to be part of,
[00:30:32] uh,
[00:30:33] uh,
[00:30:33] an exchange and I started to learn how the blocks work and stuff in my
[00:30:37] mind,
[00:30:37] I'm thinking,
[00:30:38] I mean,
[00:30:39] how the hell are people going to collude and understand and agree to a
[00:30:42] particular,
[00:30:43] um,
[00:30:45] product,
[00:30:46] particular thing,
[00:30:47] right?
[00:30:47] Uh,
[00:30:47] halfway across the world,
[00:30:48] but you know,
[00:30:50] it's,
[00:30:50] it's,
[00:30:50] it's a reality right now and everyone's doing it and,
[00:30:53] and it's immutable.
[00:30:54] And,
[00:30:55] um,
[00:30:55] and given that,
[00:30:56] I think this is something,
[00:30:58] um,
[00:30:58] that every other industry will adopt,
[00:31:00] not just,
[00:31:01] uh,
[00:31:01] finance,
[00:31:02] uh,
[00:31:03] I would say.
[00:31:04] So it will become mainstream.
[00:31:06] It will become mainstream.
[00:31:07] And it's not going to be just for the purpose of meme coins.
[00:31:10] Meme coins may die out.
[00:31:13] I don't know if,
[00:31:14] if,
[00:31:15] if proper regulations kick in,
[00:31:17] in every jurisdiction by every regulator,
[00:31:20] especially on the way you want to assess a token and list it.
[00:31:24] I think meme coins will die out.
[00:31:26] Um,
[00:31:26] and if you want to be,
[00:31:28] uh,
[00:31:29] not a meme coin as,
[00:31:31] as an,
[00:31:31] as,
[00:31:31] as a,
[00:31:32] as a project,
[00:31:32] if you do not want to be a meme coin,
[00:31:34] you need to really up your game as to how you,
[00:31:36] you,
[00:31:36] you,
[00:31:37] you structure it in the industry and give it to your users over
[00:31:40] there.
[00:31:41] Cause sooner or later,
[00:31:42] people are going to see that,
[00:31:43] see it as only a speculative tool for them to make that quick
[00:31:46] money and not something long-term for them to invest in.
[00:31:49] So that's,
[00:31:50] that's my take.
[00:31:53] Awesome.
[00:31:54] I had a conversation on Saturday night with an 84 year old
[00:31:57] banker.
[00:31:58] Uh,
[00:31:59] he was,
[00:31:59] I don't get it.
[00:32:01] And I walked him through Bitcoin.
[00:32:02] He's like,
[00:32:03] you don't need it in the U S.
[00:32:04] I was like,
[00:32:07] but how about Venezuela?
[00:32:09] You know,
[00:32:10] true.
[00:32:12] Little countries where you can't trust the government ever.
[00:32:15] Absolutely.
[00:32:16] Right.
[00:32:18] And,
[00:32:18] and they are the biggest guys of,
[00:32:20] uh,
[00:32:20] because reserves,
[00:32:21] right.
[00:32:21] Correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:32:23] Yeah.
[00:32:23] So,
[00:32:24] yeah.
[00:32:25] Awesome.
[00:32:26] Awesome.
[00:32:26] Well,
[00:32:27] I want to thank you very much for talking to me today.
[00:32:29] I enjoyed speaking with you and I,
[00:32:30] this was good.
[00:32:32] So,
[00:32:32] um,
[00:32:33] I have,
[00:32:34] you're welcome.
[00:32:35] Yeah.
[00:32:35] I have one last question.
[00:32:38] How can people find out more information about you,
[00:32:40] about Flipster?
[00:32:41] How can we become customers or clients?
[00:32:43] How can they use platform?
[00:32:45] How can they,
[00:32:46] um,
[00:32:46] follow you?
[00:32:47] How can they do any of that?
[00:32:48] Yeah.
[00:32:50] so we,
[00:32:50] we are available,
[00:32:52] uh,
[00:32:52] um,
[00:32:53] in all app stores on the internet,
[00:32:55] just,
[00:32:55] just download flipster.io.
[00:32:57] and,
[00:32:58] and,
[00:32:58] uh,
[00:32:59] and,
[00:32:59] uh,
[00:33:00] you can just sign up from anywhere across the world.
[00:33:03] Um,
[00:33:04] for me,
[00:33:05] uh,
[00:33:05] that this is,
[00:33:06] that's how easy it is for you guys to access us.
[00:33:10] Um,
[00:33:11] more information on,
[00:33:13] on,
[00:33:13] on us,
[00:33:14] on what we are doing,
[00:33:15] please do follow us,
[00:33:17] um,
[00:33:17] on LinkedIn,
[00:33:18] on,
[00:33:18] on,
[00:33:19] on,
[00:33:19] on,
[00:33:20] on,
[00:33:20] on,
[00:33:21] on Insta and on Twitter.
[00:33:22] Sorry,
[00:33:23] it's X right now.
[00:33:24] Yeah.
[00:33:25] So,
[00:33:26] yeah.
[00:33:26] So,
[00:33:27] and,
[00:33:28] um,
[00:33:28] yep,
[00:33:29] that's how it is.
[00:33:31] Awesome.
[00:33:31] Awesome.
[00:33:32] Thank you very much for your time today.
[00:33:34] Thank you.
[00:33:35] Thank you,
[00:33:35] Jumbo.
[00:33:36] Thank you.