[00:00:01] Hello everybody and welcome to the Crypto Hipster podcast. This is your host
[00:00:06] Jamil Hassan the crypto hipster where I bring you founders entrepreneurs executives thought leaders
[00:00:12] You name it across the world of crypto and blockchain all around the world
[00:00:16] And I am I'm excited because the second time I've interviewed this company the first time I've interviewed this
[00:00:22] This lady her name is spring done. She is the director of marketing at scale labs
[00:00:29] Spring welcome to the show today
[00:00:32] Thank You Jamil, I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. I'm excited you're here
[00:00:38] Hopefully this will be a wonderful experience both for both of us talking about scale and scale labs
[00:00:44] So we kick things off and ask you first. What is your background? And is it a logical background for what you're doing now?
[00:00:52] That's a great question
[00:00:54] My background is in marketing and communications. I also received my education my
[00:01:02] Marketing bachelor's degree from the University of Houston. So I've been doing marketing for 16 years
[00:01:06] So still in the same area and I love marketing
[00:01:10] Before web 3 I was you know, also in marketing doing mostly technology and events
[00:01:15] So I think that really gives me a good
[00:01:18] You know base for my marketing at scale and I believe my
[00:01:23] Transition was to web 3 was pretty logical. Um, you know prior to scale I was in the 3d printing field
[00:01:30] I worked at a company called maker bot
[00:01:33] about
[00:01:34] Eight or nine years ago and when I first started learning about blockchain, I saw a lot of comparisons there
[00:01:40] I saw you know similar very cutting-edge tech very niche very few people who knew about it
[00:01:47] so when I started to learn about blockchain, I thought they were comparable and
[00:01:51] You know, so I think that was a logical transition for me
[00:01:55] coming from you know 3d printing and marketing over to web 3 and you know
[00:02:00] I believe it gave me a strong foundation for scale. So for me, yes very logical
[00:02:04] In my own mind at least
[00:02:08] Very cool. Very cool. So what is what is scale labs all about including your focus and your vision?
[00:02:15] Sure. Yeah scale is dedicated to
[00:02:20] Blockchain scalability and use usability
[00:02:23] Basically, they were founded to solve the blockchain trilemma
[00:02:27] Which if some folks don't know there's three aspects of blockchain technology to be solved in that security scalability and decentralization
[00:02:36] So scale is you know a fully open source decentralized project and was really built
[00:02:42] You know to fix mass adoption with user
[00:02:46] Onboarding and user experience like as you know right now in crypto, it's it's difficult
[00:02:50] You know, there's just no way that my mother could come on and you know
[00:02:54] Send me a transaction or play a game or do anything like that. It's just too complicated
[00:02:59] So, you know the founders of scale which are Stan Kladko and Jackal Halloran had a really forward-looking
[00:03:06] Thought process about you know how mass adoption is gonna work
[00:03:10] So they really you know put all that in mind and the vision for it was again to have you know easy user onboarding
[00:03:17] So, you know, we're really focused on providing developers all the tools and infrastructure
[00:03:21] They need to deploy dApps that are easily scalable and also, you know meet the demands of mass adoption
[00:03:28] And we really we call that on our side an invisible blockchain experience
[00:03:32] So hopefully, you know when people come on they they don't even really know they're using blockchain technology
[00:03:38] A lot of that stuff is on the back end
[00:03:40] So our vision is to have you know, the entire world be using web3 in some capacity, you know
[00:03:46] And making a change for the better
[00:03:51] Blockchain is difficult. That's an understatement. I
[00:03:56] Know I love speaking with my my parents about it because they're always so curious on what is it?
[00:04:01] What do you do? I don't understand and you know the tech the lingo. It's a whole different language
[00:04:07] You know even just saying something like transactions or something that you know when you're in the industry
[00:04:12] You know so well to to the newbies and the outsiders. It's it's a it's a whole new world. So exciting times
[00:04:19] Yeah, yeah. No, it is is
[00:04:22] So one of the things that you do with the invisible blockchain experience, right?
[00:04:27] You've saved
[00:04:29] Lots of users so far that you're about six billion dollars, right? Yes
[00:04:35] What's your secret
[00:04:37] Well, I love this question. It's a great question. And you know to my knowledge no other blockchain
[00:04:42] You know can claim savings like that, but you know
[00:04:46] We've saved users almost six billion in gas fees to date
[00:04:50] From the secret sauce is really from our gasless transaction architecture model
[00:04:56] We have a very unique architecture
[00:05:00] The previous question and you know rather than individuals playing you know paying
[00:05:07] transaction fees
[00:05:08] We have more of a different setup where you know, it's similar to AWS
[00:05:13] That was the thinking AWS architecture, you know, and you know, so many people are
[00:05:19] Cruising the web and checking on all kinds of things and you know
[00:05:22] A lot of these websites and different platforms use AWS on the back end
[00:05:26] But as a user coming you don't really know if they're using AWS you don't need to know that
[00:05:31] so that was kind of the vision behind scale was you know, we need a different way to approach this and
[00:05:38] So how it's set up the gasless transaction model is the developers actually pay rent
[00:05:45] for their for their chain they pay a rental fee and
[00:05:48] Those rental fees get paid directly to the validators. So the validators are actually rewarded monthly
[00:05:55] For performance rather than per block which is predominantly how most of the other block chains operate
[00:06:01] So, you know it all kind of happens behind the scenes. So as a user, it's fantastic
[00:06:06] You don't have to click your wallet all the time. You don't have to you know
[00:06:11] Have tokens in your wallet. You don't need the scale token
[00:06:13] So it's all very easy
[00:06:14] But the secret sauce was you know trying to be innovative and come up with a different way that solves the problem
[00:06:20] So, you know with our blockchain architecture you can eliminate the gas fees for users and the transactions are fast efficient
[00:06:28] Cost-effective and you know, we do millions of transactions today. So
[00:06:32] That's that's the secret sauce. We think it's working really well and you know, we are an app chain network
[00:06:38] so, you know users or dApps can either have their own chain if they have enough volume or they can come on a hub as
[00:06:45] Well, which we have a gaming hub
[00:06:46] We have a DeFi hub and so they have shared resources on there. So very different than others
[00:06:53] But again six billion and counting counting quickly. So moving up fast. I
[00:06:59] Like it, you know
[00:07:01] I want to find out first
[00:07:03] How innovators can begin to build on scale? There are a bunch of level two chains out there, right better that support aetherium
[00:07:12] So how do people use scale and what's it what's the advantage for using scale?
[00:07:17] Sure. Sure. Well again, as I mentioned before, you know again scales a fully open source
[00:07:23] Decentralized project you can go view our code on github. We have all our developer docs that are easily accessible. There's tutorials
[00:07:32] You know, there's ways to grab endpoints
[00:07:34] But basically, you know developers and innovators can go and access our resource library
[00:07:40] There's documentation tutorials SDKs and you know, also I think this is unique to scale
[00:07:46] We do have a dedicated team of support engineers who help projects go live
[00:07:51] So, you know, they help with QA they help with testing they help with integrations, you know, really
[00:07:57] Supporting dApps who want to build on scale, you know, we like to say white glove service
[00:08:02] so, you know, and they're a really cool team of people and
[00:08:06] You know great case studies come out of how they help, you know folks go live but very easy to onboard
[00:08:12] We are fully EVM compatible. We have a lot of different tokens folks can use
[00:08:17] So we really think we're super developer friendly and then you know creators can come on and build high-performance dApps
[00:08:23] That's scaled to millions of users pretty easily
[00:08:28] Great. Great. So
[00:08:31] You know one of the you mentioned gaming you mentioned defy I want to get into those I will
[00:08:37] but recently
[00:08:39] incorporated some AI
[00:08:42] Optimizing features, I think you know, we've had a meme season, you know, I
[00:08:48] Think we haven't had AI summer yet
[00:08:50] And my I'm optimistic for me that we're gonna have that but you've incorporated some AI optimizing features
[00:08:56] You know, what are they how they how do they work?
[00:08:59] And is AI going to be one of the next core themes, you know this year now that we had the big one
[00:09:05] Already oh
[00:09:07] I think definitely hundred percent. We're super excited about AI and deep in as well
[00:09:12] And scale the architecture that I've been discussing is really perfectly suited for AI dApps
[00:09:19] You know, we have many different features and you know, they were built to enhance performance and efficiency
[00:09:25] Some the features utilize machine learning algorithms so you can adjust your network parameters
[00:09:31] You can optimize resource allocation and then basically all that results in an improved throughput and reduced latency
[00:09:38] But you know the cream of the crop is really the zero gas fees
[00:09:43] That were built for high performance because this allows for you know, limitless innovation
[00:09:48] If you don't have gas fees, you can have your workers
[00:09:50] They can they can do everything on their own and then users you don't have to again click your wallet
[00:09:56] One thing that really is good is it creates predictable cost if you're an AI dApp coming on scale, you know your cost
[00:10:04] You know, you know the users aren't going to be paying anything
[00:10:06] So you kind of have a peace of mind knowing where that's gonna be
[00:10:10] But you know AI apps require automated high volume transactions
[00:10:15] That would be impossible without zero gas fees and then scale enables
[00:10:19] You know real-time data processing and simplifies user experience by removing the gas
[00:10:24] So we're really well suited for data related operations. And then I did want to mention one of our AI dApps
[00:10:31] Who has been on board with scale for quite a while?
[00:10:33] Their name is Xord and they track social sentiment and reactions to events and politics across the world
[00:10:39] And they're even able to track news in China and Russia just because of how they're set up
[00:10:44] But you know, they have workers and they execute millions in transactions daily and again not possible in other chains
[00:10:50] But you know as you mentioned as we enter the you know, for your Bitcoin post-having cycle
[00:10:55] AI is going to continue to be a big theme for us in our development roadmap and
[00:11:00] You know keep scaling and you know, keep keep evolving to the market condition
[00:11:05] So we're super excited about AI and what it's bringing to scale. I want to talk about that social sentiment then
[00:11:15] My first company out of a out of corporate America was I use Watson to you know
[00:11:22] IBM Watson cover social sentiment had the company for about a year before before the ICO like took off
[00:11:30] the
[00:11:32] Interested to know there are a couple things going on in the world right now one of them, you know
[00:11:35] I'm in I'm in Connecticut, which is near, you know near the epicenter of the protests of New York
[00:11:41] because of the Palestine and
[00:11:45] Israel situations were going on right now. How do you see?
[00:11:49] The sentiment they're tracking, you know
[00:11:52] Being able to pick up be picked up by AI and what impact has that had on the market and in that cruel?
[00:11:57] economic environment
[00:11:59] Mm-hmm. Great question
[00:12:01] You know, I know X sort has been tracking a lot
[00:12:04] We actually have a you know a scale dashboard built so we can even see you know
[00:12:07] What people are thinking about scale?
[00:12:09] So, you know
[00:12:10] I know one thing that they predicted that I thought was pretty cool was the drop in Bitcoin price like they've been very
[00:12:17] Good with able to see trends in the market, especially with you know, those places that you can't normally go in there
[00:12:23] So I think from a macroeconomic they can spot trends they can spot
[00:12:27] You know what's coming up or like events that may happen how people are feeling so I think it's a game-changer
[00:12:34] Especially for the political world where you know those in charge or those looking to make change can see
[00:12:41] You know, what do the people actually think because I think a lot of times
[00:12:45] Especially in politics, you know, you have people getting phone calls polls happening
[00:12:50] You know, you could look at these things
[00:12:52] But all those polls are really done by landlines and you know, not many people have landlines anymore
[00:12:57] So I think it's a very outdated system and really doesn't you know, really doesn't track the true actual sentiment
[00:13:05] so I think these different platforms coming in that are able to
[00:13:08] Actually see what's going on and they do do a lot of
[00:13:12] Tracking on X and Twitter as well
[00:13:14] I yeah, I think that they're going to change the game because it's actually what people are thinking
[00:13:19] It's not you know age 65 plus who have a landline, you know, we can look at various age groups
[00:13:26] So I think it has game changing components for especially politics tracking world events
[00:13:32] Like if you're a politician and they're curious what if folks think about you know
[00:13:36] This particular plan that I'm doing you can go use X sort and see what folks are doing
[00:13:41] So again, I think it's a big game changer
[00:13:44] we'll see how it plays out in the next few years, but you know
[00:13:47] It's pretty cool that they can predict these big things in advance and you know
[00:13:50] And it's actually from real people again, which I think is very very interesting
[00:13:56] So I know I'll be staying tuned. It sounds like you're very interested in it as well
[00:14:00] So we can we can loop back on that in about a year and see where we're at. I
[00:14:05] Love to you. I
[00:14:07] Just get like I didn't know this but told like last month, but there's 30 major country elections coming up this fall
[00:14:15] You know, and I'm just curious of how that's gonna impact the crypto and blockchain landscape, you know
[00:14:23] Me too. Yeah, very interesting especially and we'll be able to get some insights into those countries that have adopted Bitcoin as
[00:14:30] You know a means for actual payment too, so yeah exciting times ahead there
[00:14:34] I think that's for me. That's one of the most interesting
[00:14:38] Elements of blockchain right now is AI and really how that's gonna change, you know, not only for creators but for day-to-day life
[00:14:45] So that yeah, I'm really excited there. Very cool. Very cool. So that's politics
[00:14:54] You know, you mentioned three other sectors I want to talk about a little bit first of all
[00:14:58] You mentioned you mentioned deep in right?
[00:15:02] What do you what do you see there? What's your role and being able to support the deep in infrastructure system?
[00:15:07] You know and how scale going ahead of doing that?
[00:15:11] Yeah. Yeah, so X sort is you know an AI deep in
[00:15:16] Application to so, you know again, I think we are onboarding some deep in stuff now
[00:15:22] So we'll have some cool use cases to chat about next time
[00:15:25] I'm on the show, but you know right now it really again goes back to that the gasless architecture
[00:15:30] You know
[00:15:31] We do have a type of gas just to clear up because I know some people are curious like how does it even operate?
[00:15:37] But we do have a gas called s fuel which is a value list token and it's really on the network
[00:15:44] Just to avoid front-running MEV any bots. So there is a
[00:15:49] Plan in place that that works to fix that so I did just want to clarify that point
[00:15:54] But but again it goes back to the the gas free transactions
[00:15:57] You're not going to be able to to operate and do the things you need to do in deep in if you're having to
[00:16:02] You know, even if it's point zero zero zero zero one. It's still an action you have to do
[00:16:06] So I think deep and again will only be able to operate on gasless blockchains
[00:16:10] And you know, I know there's some stuff going on
[00:16:13] I can't speak about just yet, but you know, we've got some cool things going out. So definitely stay tuned
[00:16:19] Well, you said something that I had about five podcasts in a row that
[00:16:23] And everybody gave me a such a different answer that he mentioned it so I got asked
[00:16:30] MEV boss
[00:16:31] right huge
[00:16:33] multiple
[00:16:35] extractable value in the
[00:16:38] Ethereum least ecosystem, right? How do you
[00:16:41] How do you think we fixed how do you think we fixed that? How do we address it? How do we fix it?
[00:16:45] I'm just curious. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, of course I'm biased
[00:16:50] But I do think scale is solve that problem
[00:16:54] Pretty well with with the current state right now
[00:16:56] Like if we didn't have s fuel, you know, there would still be a probability that some of those
[00:17:02] You know front run and maybe we've seen some blockchains go down recently because of this a lot of spam tracks
[00:17:08] Transactions, you know, it's messy out there. So, you know, I think
[00:17:13] With scales current setup that that's really not a possibility there and then s fuel is you know
[00:17:20] Pretty much already set up in the back end like you don't have to fill up your wallet or anything like that
[00:17:24] So from my vantage point, I feel like that's the way it's gonna be solved
[00:17:29] Is there still some type of a thing there to avoid those?
[00:17:34] But you know, they can't just come in and spam and you know a lot of the numbers that you're seeing
[00:17:38] I feel personally on DAP radar rankings and things like that. There's a lot of spam transactions going on
[00:17:45] So I do hope that we evolve out of that within the market, you know
[00:17:49] Some DAPs do want to get the numbers up on their chains, which you know is understandable
[00:17:53] You want people to know about you?
[00:17:55] But you know, we need to have an equal playing field and span transactions have to go
[00:18:00] So, you know either get some s fuel on your own network or come over to use scale and you don't have to worry about that
[00:18:07] Sounds good to me
[00:18:10] You know, I've seen the spam I've seen has been more on the lines of
[00:18:17] Telegram and email
[00:18:21] You know
[00:18:23] emails are really crafty pretending to be you know somebody that like pretending to be
[00:18:29] Stretto when they're not as far as
[00:18:31] bankruptcy or
[00:18:33] As pretending to be a community on telegram where they just duplicated it and it is not the community
[00:18:39] Like that kind of marketing
[00:18:42] Spam and scam is what I've you know what I get what I receive, you know being
[00:18:49] You know
[00:18:51] What do you how do we stop that? Oh
[00:18:54] Gosh, it is an epidemic, you know, even on discord. I just had one today
[00:18:59] I feel like this court and telegram are the the worst ones
[00:19:02] But today I had someone that said I'm you know, I'm with this well-known media publication and we'd love to you know
[00:19:09] Do an article on scale. Well, unfortunately, it's not a real person who works there
[00:19:13] I you know, I haven't learned that the hard way but
[00:19:17] You know
[00:19:17] I even you've probably experienced also and you know, I guess the web to world where you get text messages saying
[00:19:24] Oh, can you call me back? I need you to buy me some gift cards. It's like, okay
[00:19:29] So it's it's rampant everywhere. You know, I've even heard about
[00:19:34] You know
[00:19:34] Someone will order a computer and you get it and there's like the wrong number to call for support like it's really just
[00:19:40] It's something but you know
[00:19:43] I think we've had the same issue where you mentioned with telegram where you can easily
[00:19:47] Duplicate and make a brand new chat and it's you can't really take those down. There's not a lot of
[00:19:53] Things you can do you can report spam, but you know telegram doesn't have a customer support team and neither does discord
[00:19:59] So I think they'll eventually evolve and you know
[00:20:02] We do have some extra discord bots that we put in place and you know
[00:20:06] You have to solve a CAPTCHA
[00:20:07] But I think that's all we can really do right now is you know get the the duplicates taken down
[00:20:13] Oh, and we also had I just this popped in my head
[00:20:16] We had if someone duplicate our website, you know
[00:20:18] And they were trying to get you to connect your wallet and you know get the free airdrop
[00:20:22] So I think airdrops have really caused a lot of this
[00:20:26] You know, I definitely find some random stuff in my wallet all the time too
[00:20:30] But I think you just have to you know be proactive be ahead of the game and also, you know
[00:20:35] Be just like super weary of anyone reaching out to you and asking for wallets and stuff. So it's about self-responsibility
[00:20:43] But also as a company we have to make sure that our users aren't getting scammed too
[00:20:48] So it's a delicate balance. I think it'll improve over the years, but obviously a big issue right now
[00:20:53] Yeah, when I came into crypto I had two eyes and now I have like five eyes in the back
[00:21:02] That's good
[00:21:03] Yeah, I think I might as the back of my head
[00:21:05] There are certain games where you have a you know little monsters with a whole bunch of eyes
[00:21:08] But like you guys are in the you know in the gaming sector, right?
[00:21:15] How scale a game changer in the gaming sector I
[00:21:20] Must say I love this question
[00:21:22] This is a huge area for us we call it gas free gaming and we really you know, we think it's it's the future of
[00:21:30] Gaming, you know
[00:21:31] I think one of the main issues right now with adoption with blockchain gaming is a lot of web to
[00:21:37] Gamers traditional gamers are you know still a little skeptical about the user experience which makes a lot of sense
[00:21:44] You know and also regarding the graphics being improved, but I think we've made a lot of headway there
[00:21:49] But again, you know, thanks to the our gas fee
[00:21:53] Architecture zero gas fee architecture, you know gamers don't have to hit yes on the wall constantly
[00:21:59] They don't have to you know have interruptions. There's no performance issues
[00:22:04] You know again, they're kind of that invisible blockchain experience. I would like to say so they're just experiencing the gameplay
[00:22:10] They're experiencing it like the traditional, you know web to world because the transactions are recorded
[00:22:17] Instantly on chain and then the user doesn't even know they're happening
[00:22:20] So I think by leveraging, you know our gases transaction model in the high performance architecture
[00:22:26] You can really create immersive gaming experiences with
[00:22:30] Transactions that are done on chain. I think that's another one is a lot of the web 3 games don't necessarily have a lot of the action
[00:22:37] On chain just because it's so difficult to build right now
[00:22:41] So the scale you can really do a lot of you know on chain
[00:22:44] You can have true asset ownership. You can have really enhanced gameplay mechanics and you know scale with gaming
[00:22:51] There's a lot of momentum there, you know in in 2023
[00:22:54] We were named the most active gaming chain by coin gecko, which was really cool
[00:22:59] We also have five of the top 25 games on dapp radar
[00:23:03] Some of those are you know hosted on our nebula gaming hub and then some of them are also multi-chain
[00:23:09] You know across many different block chains and then you know when they join scale a lot of their users
[00:23:15] Just want to play on the scale chain because again zero gas fees like that
[00:23:19] You know, it's just it's just something that you can't achieve on others and then our you know gaming
[00:23:25] Unique active wallets have grown. I know this number sounds astronomical
[00:23:29] 61,000 percent year over year with and also like you were saying with you know
[00:23:34] The six billion in gas fee savings
[00:23:36] And one other component of this I would have to say is our speed
[00:23:39] You know, we have instant finality as soon as the transaction happens
[00:23:42] It's you know recorded on the block and you know Dartmouth blockchain today
[00:23:47] Did it's an independent study about you know TPS and and who was the fastest and we were named number one
[00:23:55] Which is again really cool
[00:23:57] You know, so we'd really like to tout the Dartmouth blockchain and then just a few games coming up from
[00:24:02] Right now we've got stray shot
[00:24:05] Bussy Fox and Haven's compass and if you go check out their gameplay footage
[00:24:10] It does not look like web 3 gaming. You know, it looks really cool
[00:24:15] It looks super fun to play
[00:24:18] You know, we've got some gamers and different dowels playing with them now, but at scale
[00:24:22] We're really excited for these games to go live because we think it's really gonna be a great game
[00:24:27] Gaming but you know again with scale we love we think blockchain gaming and AI are really great use cases to use us
[00:24:34] And then, you know again, we just want to empower developers to build whatever they want to do
[00:24:39] You know unlimited potential to come over with gaming on scale. So again really excited for that question
[00:24:45] We think you know in six months the market will be changed from these new games coming out
[00:24:50] So I think we're going to be able to do that
[00:24:52] You know, I would think that the fastest were polygon or Hedera but your fastest that's that's something to tell that's pretty cool
[00:24:58] You know
[00:25:00] Yeah, and it was you know again done by a third party
[00:25:03] So I there were a few you know, I'll just say this there were some that were touting
[00:25:08] They were fastest, but they were doing their own testing and I just don't think that's a fair way to do it
[00:25:12] You were doing your own testing and I think that's a fair way to do it
[00:25:16] You were doing your own testing and I think that's a fair way to do it
[00:25:19] You know, I would think that the fastest were polygon or Hedera but you know, they were doing their own testing and I just don't think that's a fair way to do it
[00:25:27] You really have to have external folks, but you know, we're still trying to make it faster, too
[00:25:32] So I think there'll be a heated competition and who can who can keep this crown over the years
[00:25:37] I like it
[00:25:39] You did say two words there. You said actually three words. You said immersive experience and you said multi-chain
[00:25:48] It's not a word. It's not a hype word. It's a metaverse
[00:25:53] Been a couple years, you know
[00:25:55] but with the immersive experiences and the fact that the fact that you're fast and you know an
[00:26:01] Accurate and have immersive experiences. Do you see the future of gaming being in the metaverse?
[00:26:08] Where are we at as far as a subsector or industry within crypto?
[00:26:14] That's a great question. I
[00:26:16] Definitely see it being fully immersive, you know, and I personally don't have a VR headset
[00:26:22] But I would love one if anyone's out there, but it's getting
[00:26:26] but I think you know, I
[00:26:28] Would have to say the things I see happening in Asia and in Japan and Korea just like what they're doing and regarding
[00:26:35] Immersive experiences. I think a lot of that's gonna also come on chain
[00:26:39] But definitely I think the metaverse is the future of gaming
[00:26:43] I think it's gonna be fully immersive where you feel like you're part of the game like no longer we
[00:26:49] You know, okay with the Sims anymore. We want to have a full immersive experience
[00:26:54] So I think definitely the metaverse is the way things are going and I know I'm keeping close tabs on the space, too
[00:27:02] great
[00:27:04] Wonderful. So I want to shift gears a little bit because I haven't also talked about this
[00:27:10] Topic for a couple years and it's and they have a background in it. It's blockchain for
[00:27:17] philanthropy, right
[00:27:20] That's gotten lost in the shuffle with the gaming and not the game with gambling meme coins recently and other
[00:27:26] No stuff in the market, you know
[00:27:29] Blockchain is supposed to be for social impact as well as for monetary impact
[00:27:34] You know what won't take back on track as far as crypto for philanthropy. Oh
[00:27:39] That's a great question. I really like this one. I totally agree, you know blockchain for philanthropy
[00:27:44] it's kind of been overshadowed with with meme coin right now just because it's new and fun and exciting and
[00:27:50] But I definitely believe it's essential to refocus on you know, the potential blockchain for social impact
[00:27:57] You know one statistic I read that I thought was pretty cool was the average donor and then the current nonprofit
[00:28:04] Sector is 64 and then the average age of crypto users are 38
[00:28:10] So I feel there's a lot of room for you know, youngers those who you know, the gin wires
[00:28:18] They are wanting to change the world and I understand it so I think there's a lot of room for
[00:28:24] Growth and innovation in this sector within you know
[00:28:28] Philanthropy and you know, there's of course donation wise
[00:28:32] I think that's huge a lot of folks can take donations from around the world where you wouldn't be able to but for me personally
[00:28:39] I'm very
[00:28:41] focused on conservation and tracking climate change
[00:28:45] Which I think would be it's huge on blockchain because you know, it will be all stored on chain. It's immutable
[00:28:52] It's secure data distribution and you know things like protecting endangered species
[00:28:58] You know, you can monitor the wildlife on the chain you could share the information between government academia
[00:29:06] Environment groups. I just think there's so many things we could be doing to protect nature and animals and
[00:29:12] You know, there's also enhancing transparent supply chains, which would be you know for food and you know different ways to just make sure
[00:29:20] You know, you're eating good stuff for yourself
[00:29:23] Another thing I've seen within philanthropy is NFT fundraising, you know where people sell NFTs and a small piece goes to
[00:29:32] Whatever organization they like so I think there's just so much innovation here
[00:29:37] And you know in order to kind of pivot back get on track as you put I think I
[00:29:43] Think there's room for everything
[00:29:45] I think there's room for memes to have their their people too
[00:29:48] And then I also think some have here so some have you know, flim philanthropy
[00:29:52] So I think they'll just be a pivot as as time goes on more people will come back here
[00:29:58] And of course around tax season when donations. I know I personally
[00:30:03] donated via
[00:30:05] crypto for my donations and again it is a
[00:30:08] It's an it's an asset. So it's a little different when you come to taxes, but we don't have to go down that road
[00:30:13] But I think there's some really cool use cases there another one
[00:30:16] I really enjoy that I support is open forest protocol, which is tracks like, you know deforestation and things like that
[00:30:22] So, you know, I think it'll really get back on track
[00:30:25] but maybe when more people form groups and you know, it just gets bigger and more people learn about
[00:30:30] Philanthropy and so I think if we're on the really early stages there, but again, there's room for everyone in crypto. So
[00:30:38] I don't think memes are here to stay too meme coins. I
[00:30:43] Like to I like the idea of inclusion it's just room for everybody. I like that a lot
[00:30:50] And out here and you're right. I'm not gonna talk about taxes
[00:30:56] A crypto tax software pry it's called sin ledger pride prior to forming joining scale
[00:31:03] Which was my first foray into blockchain. So I have some knowledge there, but yes, it's a little dry subject
[00:31:08] So we don't have to go down that path
[00:31:11] Yeah, no I had some losses with Celsius and I'll be carrying them over for many years yes
[00:31:20] Yeah, so I want to thank you very much for your time today, I really enjoyed meeting you and talking to you
[00:31:25] I have one last question. It's it's pretty much easiest
[00:31:32] How can people find it more information about you about scale about scale labs? How can they do that?
[00:31:38] Sure. Sure. Great
[00:31:40] Yeah, definitely, you know, we're scale dot space is our website scale network on X
[00:31:47] Pretty much anything scale. You can find us. We actually just launched one cool thing
[00:31:52] we just launched our own staking portal as
[00:31:55] Today so, you know our portal is portal dot scale dot space
[00:31:59] So, you know and we're scale SK a le so a little bit of playing on scale because we are
[00:32:06] You know an L2 and we do support a theory and I want to see it grow so and
[00:32:11] You know a little bit about me. I you know, my name is spring done. You can find me on LinkedIn
[00:32:16] I have my own X account and you know again
[00:32:19] I've been with scale for about two and a half years and we're super excited about the future of you know
[00:32:25] the impact we're gonna make there and
[00:32:27] we'll be having a
[00:32:29] AI spaces next week as well on X
[00:32:31] So if you'd like to join that we'll have some of our you know, biggest AI daps on there to speak about it
[00:32:37] But again just give us a search, you know reach out to me on email
[00:32:40] Happy to chat further like, you know, we're all very excited and you know
[00:32:44] We're a small team too at scale where there's about 35 of us total including the engineers. We're very close-knit team
[00:32:50] We're all in this together and would love to hear from anybody if they reach out
[00:32:56] Awesome so wonderful. Thank you very much for your time today. Thank you so much Jamil. This has been great
[00:33:01] you