Why Crypto Options and Structured Products Can Help Manage Risk as We Head into the Bull Market, with Georgii Verbitskii @ TYMIO (Audio Version)

[00:00:05] Hello everybody and welcome to the Crypto Hipster Podcast. This is your host, Jamil Hasan, the Crypto Hipster, where I interview founders, entrepreneurs, executives, thought leaders, amazing people all around the world of crypto and blockchain. And today I have a guest, another amazing guest. His name is Georgii Verbitskii. He is the founder of Time.io. Georgii, welcome.

[00:00:32] Hello, Jamil. Thank you. Thank you. Jamil, sorry. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

[00:00:38] You're very welcome. You're very welcome. Yeah, it's Jamil and it's not a Spanish name, so I'm good. Nothing against the Spaniards though. So let's kick things off. Ask your first question. Ask everybody is this, what is your background and is it a logical background for what you're doing now?

[00:00:59] Yeah, I think it's pretty logical. I mean, I'm an IT guy and then I like 15 years ago, I switched to finance because I would like to have some like freedom, financial freedom and freedom to live whatever I want in any location in the world.

[00:01:18] So I tried to understand what is trading about, the online trading.

[00:01:23] So, and around 15 years already I trade and I use complex derivatives like futures and options and I use all kinds of markets, of course, crypto.

[00:01:36] And then I decide to do some, my own, like my own business, my own startup.

[00:01:46] And then came idea because I actually, I understand quite well how powerful the options and how much you can do with it, with them.

[00:02:00] And generally it's an incident tool for professionals. So my aim was to create the product in which, which will allow people to use the power of options, but in easy, like easy to use and like same power, but with easiness, with like three clicks approach, something like that.

[00:02:24] So we created a time here as a structured protocol and crypto investor up, like set of apps, because we have now we have two applications for first one is for yield.

[00:02:38] And the second one is for protection. Basically, that's all the crypto investor needs.

[00:02:43] They need to have yield and they need to protect their portfolio.

[00:02:47] So basically we created the full ecosystem.

[00:02:54] At least that was our goal to do this.

[00:02:58] And actually the first application is already like one and a half year alive.

[00:03:05] And the second one protect, we just launched a month ago.

[00:03:09] So now we're like full set of crypto apps for investor because the investors are those people we are like targeting because there's no, there's a, in crypto, you know, that people mostly like to maybe trade to achieve 10 X or like 100 X.

[00:03:31] And this is quite a different approach than we do.

[00:03:36] We believe in crypto as an emerging asset class.

[00:03:40] And we would like to people, we would like people to do more responsible, like capital growth, like most investors in traditional finance do.

[00:03:50] They have a portfolio, they have like some rules, they hedge the rebalance, all that stuff.

[00:03:56] So we are helping such people to achieve their goals.

[00:04:02] Awesome. So we're going to get into that 100, that term 100 X.

[00:04:07] We're going to get into that a little bit later.

[00:04:09] But you said something that was a little surprising to me, at least from my perspective.

[00:04:13] I got a master's degree in finance, right?

[00:04:16] To me, options are not easy.

[00:04:19] You said options are easy, right?

[00:04:22] For the lay person, for the 80% of the people out there, at least in the US, options are not easy.

[00:04:29] So how do you, how do you make them easy?

[00:04:32] And how do you safeguard crypto portfolios from all the volatility that's out there?

[00:04:37] Basically options are, I didn't say the options are easy.

[00:04:40] I said that we are like, we are creating the product, we are creating the product, which allows people to use options, but in easy way.

[00:04:48] I mean, in a form of structured products.

[00:04:52] I mean, you are even if you use timer, it doesn't matter.

[00:04:56] I mean, you even don't know that the, like the inside these options, you just see the structured product.

[00:05:04] I mean, we have two structured products and two applications.

[00:05:07] First one is a limit order with yield, which basically allows you to monetize your intention to sell or buy above or below the market price.

[00:05:17] And the second product is protect, which is, you can easily like protect some range, some price range.

[00:05:24] So the, the people just, maybe they just did, they just don't know that these options inside, they just see the structured products.

[00:05:35] And the structured products is much more easier than the options itself.

[00:05:39] I mean, you can, there's a big, the biggest exchange right now is Deribit options exchange.

[00:05:45] But if you like open their interface, it's a crazy complex thing.

[00:05:49] You know, nobody understand it, except like maybe one or 2% professional traders like me.

[00:05:56] But the common, the common folks, they just want easy, easy to use interface where they will just understand what's going on.

[00:06:05] I mean, and that what we are trying to do with time.

[00:06:10] Exactly.

[00:06:12] Yeah, I would, I would like that price protection because I don't have it right now.

[00:06:17] I just have certain cryptos and I hold them, but I, and I watch the price go of like a hundred down to 70, up to a hundred down to 70.

[00:06:23] I'm like, okay, I had this money.

[00:06:24] Okay. It's gone.

[00:06:25] Okay. I have this money. It's gone.

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:27] Um, why, why would price protection be really crucial?

[00:06:32] And as we head into this next bull market, why should people have price, get price protection and get it from you?

[00:06:40] Uh, like let's, let's, let's, let's see an example.

[00:06:45] Let's evaluate some example.

[00:06:47] Okay. Uh, right now the Bitcoin is, uh, like, uh, 94,000, right?

[00:06:54] So in, in some cases you might think that it's too high and it's going to be correction.

[00:06:59] I mean, we don't know if it's going to be or not, but in case you, you are really, uh, like afraid of it, uh, what you can do, basically you can sell your Bitcoin, right?

[00:07:10] And you can like cash out, uh, which is, uh, viable option, but, uh, you lose your Bitcoin in case it goes up.

[00:07:19] You mean, yeah, you, you're just out of the market and you, you, you just, for example, it goes like 100.

[00:07:26] And so you feel, you feel bad about it.

[00:07:28] So another thing you can do, you can just, uh, uh, use the hedging, the protection.

[00:07:33] So you like decide that, uh, the correction is going to be between, uh, 90 and 85, for example. Yeah.

[00:07:42] And it's going to be during the two weeks window.

[00:07:47] So you just go to time, you protect and you see, okay, what if I choose this price range, 90 to 85 for two weeks?

[00:07:56] How much it going to cost me? Okay.

[00:07:58] It cost me for one Bitcoin is like $200. Yeah.

[00:08:02] To protect such a, I'm, I'm, I'm imagining. Yeah.

[00:08:06] It's not a real, like a real price.

[00:08:09] So if it's okay for you, you just set the protection.

[00:08:12] You pay $200 in, in case the Bitcoin goes down and it like,

[00:08:16] like end up in two weeks, it end up on, uh, uh, 84.

[00:08:20] You'll get like 5,000 for one Bitcoin.

[00:08:24] So you basically you offset your portfolio.

[00:08:26] So portfolio is going down, but you will get a profit on price protection.

[00:08:31] So you get, it's like same as insurance.

[00:08:34] You insure your car and you get, you get the full payment.

[00:08:38] If something happens, same thing, but with a market price.

[00:08:43] I think it's a good idea as we're heading into this next bull, because I think in previous bull markets,

[00:08:48] Bitcoin's gone back like 35% a few times in each cycle.

[00:08:51] Yeah.

[00:08:52] Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's better ideas than just sell your Bitcoin.

[00:08:55] I mean, of course it could be like either way, but, uh, sometimes you don't want to sell.

[00:09:00] You just need to protect for one week or two weeks because you expect some volatility.

[00:09:04] You expect some, you know, price swings and stuff like this.

[00:09:09] I agree.

[00:09:10] So I'm thinking that a tailored risk management is important, right?

[00:09:16] So why is, why is that tailored approach important?

[00:09:20] Especially when many investors like to gamble with meme coins and then also try to strive for that hundred X, which is from what I've seen most of the time, they don't get it.

[00:09:34] Uh, we see it that way.

[00:09:36] I mean, uh, if you want to achieve like steady growths of your, like wealth, you'll have to have a balanced portfolio, right?

[00:09:44] You have to have stocks, you have to have like, uh, bonds and you have to have crypto, of course.

[00:09:51] And, uh, you don't put everything on like, uh, to put on some meme coin.

[00:09:56] That's not really wise thing to do because you, uh, you can be wrong.

[00:10:02] And, uh, uh, so we believe that the major, the, the major, you know, uh, percentage of, uh, that portfolio should be, I mean, crypto portfolio should be like Bitcoin or Bitcoin and something.

[00:10:14] So we have some Ethereum and Solana.

[00:10:16] So the major like blue chips of the crypto industry and the rest, uh, could be some meme coins.

[00:10:22] Uh, it's same.

[00:10:23] Like, uh, you know, I'm, I'm an angel investor, so I know like how to invest in startups.

[00:10:29] So you just invest in 20 startups in, in a hope that, uh, one of, uh, these 20 startups will like shoot to the moon.

[00:10:37] Um, the same thing is, uh, with meme coins.

[00:10:40] I mean, uh, it's the same essential thing.

[00:10:42] It's, it's a speculation.

[00:10:43] It's, uh, uh, you can be sure.

[00:10:47] And, uh, uh, you, of course you want to have like 100 X, but, uh, the percentage of your capital, which you put it in, the wise thing is not to put everything.

[00:11:00] You just put some like five or 10 or 20%.

[00:11:03] I don't know.

[00:11:04] It doesn't matter.

[00:11:04] I mean, uh, so, uh, that's why we support in time.

[00:11:09] We support, uh, the major blue chips, like Ethereum, like Bitcoin.

[00:11:13] And of course you can buy a meme coin and, uh, that will balance your portfolio.

[00:11:19] So in case it's going, going, going like a 100 X, you'll have, I don't know how many X, but, uh, not 100, but for your entire portfolio, it will be of course, significant.

[00:11:31] Uh, so it's just a matter of your, you know, your, the management of your, your, your, your overall portfolio.

[00:11:39] So you can have tools like time.io and you have, like, you can buy some meme coins.

[00:11:45] Of course it's, it's, it's, it depends.

[00:11:47] It depends on your, how you, how do you believe what, what, what, what you believe in.

[00:11:52] I mean, some people believe that is a good cycle for meme coins and the reality is that meme coins are doing extremely well right now.

[00:11:59] As you can see, uh, uh, the P the paper, a lot of meme coins are going well, doing, doing very well.

[00:12:07] What surprised me last week was that Litecoin got rebranded at least on gate.io and got, and some other sites got rebranded from a payment coin to a meme coin.

[00:12:19] And it seems to be doing really, really well right now, you know?

[00:12:22] Yeah. It, it, it looks to me like, you know, when the AI, you know, AI, AI hype went, uh, started last year.

[00:12:32] So many companies which are doing some different stuff will start to labeling themselves like AI thing.

[00:12:40] They just, uh, the same thing is going here.

[00:12:43] It's like everybody wants to, now it wants to be a meme coin because meme coins are growing and, uh, you know, you, you, you have an allocation, uh, immediately for people who looking another meme coin.

[00:12:55] So, uh, I'm not surprised and, uh, I think it's an interesting thing to do and, uh, probably they, they benefited from it.

[00:13:05] Why not?

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:08] So you, you hear about the few people who make millions on the memes and make millions on a hundred X, you don't hear about the millions that lose all their money.

[00:13:17] Right.

[00:13:18] Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:19] Exactly.

[00:13:19] That's why many people right now are focused on such a specific few cases that you can have like 100 X, but nobody talks about how to, you know, manage your portfolio in a proper way to not to lose everything.

[00:13:33] I mean, that's a, that's a reality.

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:39] So let's talk, let's talk about some market scenarios then.

[00:13:43] Um, what market scenarios do you think are the most risky and why does time IO protect, help navigate those specific market scenarios?

[00:13:57] Uh, right now, I think we're in the beginning of the cycle, like in the first half of the cycle, it looks like this.

[00:14:04] Of course, nobody knows, but, uh, it looks like this.

[00:14:07] And, uh, uh, right now is, I think it's as a, as a, like a professional trader.

[00:14:15] I think that, uh, it's highly unlikely that we have, uh, uh, we will go back to like 70 for Bitcoin, something like that.

[00:14:26] It's most likely that will be continued growing until 100 and it will be around new year, maybe January until the Trump takes, uh, the office.

[00:14:37] And the second wave, uh, will be some, something to, um, until the end of the next year.

[00:14:47] Uh, probably it will be like, uh, 180 for Bitcoin, something like this.

[00:14:54] That's my, you know, basic, basic, uh, scenario.

[00:14:58] Uh, what we don't want to have, of course, it, uh, it's a big, uh, huge drawdown because, uh, many people are seeing now loaded their bags and, uh, waiting for alt season.

[00:15:10] And, uh, that's what they are expecting.

[00:15:13] And probably if we have significant, uh, you know, some bad news, I don't know which, what it can be, but still, if we have some bad news, uh, they will probably suffer.

[00:15:24] And, uh, in case of, uh, Bitcoin and Ethereum, you can hedge it because we have options available.

[00:15:32] We have time here, but in case of altcoins, uh, probably most people just, they even don't use stops, uh, stop losses, and they will just suffer from, uh, these drawdowns.

[00:15:46] That's, that's how I see it.

[00:15:48] So a hundred until the inauguration, 180 a year from now, unless let's talk about some macroeconomic risks, right?

[00:15:55] One of them is, is, is, is world war, right?

[00:15:59] Yeah.

[00:15:59] What, what would happen during a world, world war?

[00:16:03] Do you think that the market would go up or everything, everything would go down?

[00:16:07] What, like, what do you think would happen in it?

[00:16:09] And if that, like, if things escalated really badly.

[00:16:12] Mm.

[00:16:13] I think that the reaction will be like this.

[00:16:15] Uh, the first, the first reaction, of course, the markets will go down.

[00:16:19] It, it, it can kind of a liquidity crisis, uh, when everybody needs dollars, uh, everybody wants to deliver.

[00:16:27] And, uh, in that case, yes, there will be sharp price decrease on every asset, including Bitcoin, of course, including altcoins, stuff like this.

[00:16:37] And then, it will be depending on what will be the reaction and how, how, how people will perceive, uh, what will going next, going to be next.

[00:16:48] I don't see, uh, um, any huge problems because, uh, I mean, in general, uh, Trump administration is, uh, it's not like, how I can say it like war oriented, like, like the, the Biden administration more because, uh, the Biden administration, it seems like, uh, they are ready to escalate.

[00:17:13] I mean, with all this Ukraine, uh, situation and stuff like this.

[00:17:19] And Biden, his first term was quite peaceful, you know?

[00:17:24] Uh, so I think that the, the, it's not likely, uh, that we will have such an escalation, uh, after he will be in the office.

[00:17:34] And even before it's also will be difficult to escalate because everybody understands that, uh, the, the administration is changing.

[00:17:45] So they, they're going to talk to new people.

[00:17:47] Of course, they will not, you know, decide, uh, have a major decision on, you know, uh, escalation, especially military war escalation, uh, in this situation.

[00:17:59] So I think, uh, we are more or less, uh, you know, in optimistic view.

[00:18:07] I mean, I'm talking for, um, about myself, of course, thing can happen, but my basis basis scenario is, uh, that everything will be better right now.

[00:18:20] Yeah.

[00:18:20] And then not to mention that, you know, we had an sec chair, Gary Gensler, and I didn't really realize the full impact of what happened, but I went through all my, like today, I went through all my previous guests.

[00:18:34] And a lot of them, a lot of them were in different countries and they moved to the United Arab Emirates, right?

[00:18:41] Because it's a more friendly environment and Switzerland.

[00:18:46] So, um, and I know they're, I know they're looking at options, you know, um, I want to find out from your perspective with the shifting tides, you know, what do you see as the future of the crypto options markets?

[00:19:00] You know, um, and how can, you know, maybe novel approaches like your yield app and your platform help drive those changes to be in a better position than we have been?

[00:19:12] I think it's definitely a very optimistic outlook right now because, uh, the problem with, uh, decentralized finance was, uh, regulation.

[00:19:22] I mean, the, the major problem was regulation.

[00:19:24] Of course they have another problems, which is a complexity and, uh, lack of, uh, like of business to use.

[00:19:31] Uh, it was difficult to understand all this wallet stuff and like this for the common folks, but the regulation is the main, the main issue.

[00:19:40] I mean, it, uh, it, uh, it, uh, it's stopped, uh, development, uh, in many areas and especially in derivatives because I mean, maybe, you know, the last year there was some, uh, uh, CC cases against, uh, options protocols.

[00:19:57] So there were fines, uh, nobody in jail, but there were, there were some fines, which are of course, scary for every, for every person who is building something in derivative space.

[00:20:10] Of course, they evaluate some risks in that perspective.

[00:20:15] So the Trump administration is fantastic.

[00:20:18] Then you, I mean, it looked, it looks fantastic.

[00:20:21] I don't know what will happen, uh, next, but, uh, um, couldn't be better.

[00:20:28] I mean, now it's looks like it couldn't be better.

[00:20:31] So they're talking about replacement of Gary Gensler of, uh, secretary of, uh, uh, the finance minister, basically.

[00:20:41] Uh, and there's a lot of changes, a lot of changes and Trump surrounded himself with the people who are very pro crypto.

[00:20:50] So it's going to be better.

[00:20:52] I mean, at least it's going to be slightly better, but in a very optimistic scenario, it's going to be like breakthrough.

[00:20:59] So I think that crypto world waiting for that breakthrough.

[00:21:01] And, uh, that's why I think the DeFi will have, uh, the new wave, the real current instance.

[00:21:08] And, uh, many of, uh, decent DeFi and, uh, like leader DeFi protocol are going to strive and, uh, you know, it's going to, it's going to be very good for them.

[00:21:22] Of course.

[00:21:23] I've been waiting for, for DeFi summer 2.0 for the past four years.

[00:21:30] So, you know, um, so I'm hoping hopeful.

[00:21:35] Um, well, I'll give you a statistic.

[00:21:37] You probably know this one, um, 48 and the, in the election, you know, 48 pro crypto candidates were on the ballot and all 48 one.

[00:21:49] That's how I'll be something right.

[00:21:51] Amazing.

[00:21:51] Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:21:53] That's amazing.

[00:21:53] Such, such a great, such a great events.

[00:21:56] I mean, happy to live such a good times.

[00:22:01] I mean, let's see, let's see.

[00:22:03] Let's do not be overly optimistic right now, but yeah, it sounds like positive changes are coming.

[00:22:10] Yeah.

[00:22:11] So you help traders, you help investors, right?

[00:22:15] Other than those two groups, right?

[00:22:17] How can your platform be used to help miners?

[00:22:23] Uh, it's easy because the miners, uh, have, uh, like predictable, uh, production of Bitcoin.

[00:22:31] So they can use, uh, uh, yield application or yield application to sell, uh, in the future, the future production.

[00:22:39] I mean, they know that at some point of the future, like in one month, they will produce certain amount of Bitcoin.

[00:22:46] So they can set the price, uh, now and either sell it for that price or just receive the yield.

[00:22:53] So they can enhance their profitability and have some like predictable price outcome.

[00:23:01] So, uh, miners, uh, any, uh, any startups that have, of course, everybody has treasury and they manage their funds.

[00:23:10] They can use time to generate some additional yield.

[00:23:14] For example, they, they have some Bitcoin.

[00:23:16] It's just like, just, just like staying there and they don't do not produce any yield and you can put it, uh, to work.

[00:23:24] Same with the stable coins.

[00:23:25] You have USDT, USDC, uh, in case you are quite flexible, how to manage your treasury.

[00:23:33] I mean, some, some companies are very strict.

[00:23:36] I mean, they just use USDT.

[00:23:38] That's it.

[00:23:39] Stable coins.

[00:23:40] They don't have exposure for crypto.

[00:23:42] And in case you are flexible, for example, we have treasury, which is like 30, 30, 30, 30% Bitcoin, 30% Ethereum and 30% of stable coins.

[00:23:53] So we can measure, we can manage it.

[00:23:55] We can rebalance it.

[00:23:56] And in case you have some kind of flexibility, you can generate additional yield.

[00:24:00] Uh, for example, we have a model strategy in Timeo, which we like showing how we can use, how you can use Timeo.

[00:24:07] And it's like, uh, 60% of, uh, APR.

[00:24:11] Uh, this is a real like numbers with the real deals with the real transactions, which we are, uh, uh, translate, uh, which, which, which, which we are published.

[00:24:25] So, uh, so it kind of, for example, how to get, how you can use, uh, your Bitcoin or Ethereum or stable coins to just generate additional yield.

[00:24:39] So, uh, it could be like a few percent per month, but still, I mean, it's, uh, relatively low risk.

[00:24:47] Uh, so it's basically interesting.

[00:24:51] So, so you recap, you help the traders, investors, miners, you said treasury managers, money managers, and startup companies too.

[00:25:01] Yeah.

[00:25:02] It's pretty good.

[00:25:04] Um, and then the 60%, I know since the election, I'm up like 40 some percent, but like 60% as an annual PR, APR is pretty good.

[00:25:13] Like it's really great.

[00:25:15] You know, you're going to be defeating some hedge, some of the best hedge funds in the world.

[00:25:18] Right.

[00:25:19] So why shouldn't everybody, you know, come on, you know, use your portfolio and why would they continue to still go to 60, 40 bonds equity when they don't need to do that anymore?

[00:25:33] I mean, that is just the results for one last year.

[00:25:36] It doesn't mean it, it will be, uh, the next year will be same, uh, because there are some risks and there is some risk involved.

[00:25:44] Of course, it's not like, uh, staking when you just having the infrastructure risk of, uh, the big exchange who can, you know, uh, go, go, go bust.

[00:25:53] Uh, here you have, you have some risk, of course, it's not like a huge risk, but you have some, I mean, we have a drawdown for several months.

[00:26:01] Uh, and, uh, it's, uh, it's just an instrument.

[00:26:06] You can, you can use it, uh, you can use it, uh, with a good result or you can use it with not so good result.

[00:26:13] It depends on you.

[00:26:14] I mean, uh, maybe because, uh, I'm, I'm managing a model strategy, which is, uh, and I'm quite professional in that.

[00:26:23] So, so I can achieve like 60% APR for a year, but, uh, you can do like 20, 30% without any specificity.

[00:26:32] Uh, and that is pretty good.

[00:26:34] That is pretty good.

[00:26:35] So we're not advising, you know, go on, go and, you know, use time without understanding.

[00:26:42] We're not promising.

[00:26:43] Uh, of course it's not a financial advice and stuff like this.

[00:26:46] Uh, it's a, it's, it's just an instrument and you can have, uh, drawdowns of course, and not all, uh, companies or people are ready for drawdowns.

[00:26:55] It depends on the risk profile.

[00:26:58] If you are ready for the drawdowns, you can, you can use it.

[00:27:01] If you are like super high risk here, you can of course use, uh, options and futures by yourself, but you can be liquidated and, uh, all the, you it's, it's complex.

[00:27:13] You can be liquidated.

[00:27:15] Uh, you have to be professional.

[00:27:17] So we are giving tool for non-professionals and it's relatively safe.

[00:27:22] Uh, you can use it, uh, without the risk of being liquidated.

[00:27:26] Uh, you will not go like, you know, when you're trading futures, you can go to experience tilt.

[00:27:32] You know, the tilt, uh, when you like, you, you, you wanna, you wanna get back your money and you, you lose again, again, again, again, definitely you can lose everything.

[00:27:41] So not, not like this, this is a more like conservative instrument, but still relatively with a high APR.

[00:27:49] So it's, it's kind of, uh, something in the middle between, uh, like no risk staking.

[00:27:57] I mean, no, no risk.

[00:27:59] Of course there are some risks, but market risk, no market risk, market risk staking when you put your Bitcoin and you have like 10% per year.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:06] You can stake on Binance.

[00:28:08] You can stake on Bybit, something like this.

[00:28:10] And you can, you have like trading when you emotionally can be involved, you can suffer losses, stuff like this.

[00:28:19] And we are in the middle, somewhere in the middle.

[00:28:23] So it's just kind of an option for people who like their, the middle thing.

[00:28:30] So let me help, let me help the people understand.

[00:28:33] You're you're, you differ from the Celsius's and the FTX's of the past in that you're not rehypaticating people's money for them.

[00:28:43] You're just providing a tool that they can do it for themselves.

[00:28:46] Yes.

[00:28:47] Yeah, of course.

[00:28:47] That's a tool.

[00:28:48] And by the way, uh, you mentioned FTX and, uh, that's a centralized, uh, exchange.

[00:28:54] I mean, we are like, uh, we are non-custodial.

[00:28:57] We are based on smart contracts.

[00:28:59] So, uh, we are not, we not, we don't, we, we, we, we don't have access to the customer's funds.

[00:29:05] I mean, uh, this is a DeFi basis.

[00:29:08] Uh, so, uh, a smart contract is audited by the third party and you can check the audit.

[00:29:14] It's public.

[00:29:15] And the smart contract is also open.

[00:29:17] It's public.

[00:29:18] Uh, you can check the code and to make sure that everything is fine.

[00:29:22] So basically we are quite different from, uh, those companies that you mentioned.

[00:29:30] Great.

[00:29:32] Awesome.

[00:29:32] That's what I wanted to make sure.

[00:29:34] So, uh, that's super important.

[00:29:36] I mean, that's super, super, super important.

[00:29:39] Yeah.

[00:29:40] So they talk about, you know, bringing the next billion people into the crypto market.

[00:29:46] I think we might see some of that billion in the next Trump administration.

[00:29:50] Right.

[00:29:51] But how do you think for the long term, we're going to get retail to trust us again as an

[00:29:57] industry?

[00:29:59] I mean, the process is already going and, uh, the people are coming.

[00:30:03] And of course, uh, we are in time, you are, uh, having a huge bet on the, uh, the future

[00:30:11] in which, uh, a lot of new people will come.

[00:30:14] And, uh, that's, we, that's why we bet on simplicity because I think the DeFi protocols

[00:30:22] are very complex.

[00:30:23] I mean, even me, I mean, I'm 70 years in finance.

[00:30:27] Uh, sometimes I just opened some, uh, web tree startup, the page of where it was.

[00:30:33] The front page of some web tree startup.

[00:30:34] And I don't understand what they do.

[00:30:36] I mean, all this liquid staking, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:30:40] So, I mean, there's no chance the regular guy can understand it.

[00:30:45] So I think we need some more apps like Timeo, which are user friendly.

[00:30:50] I mean, uh, we are trying to make it even more user friendly because, uh, uh, we in our

[00:30:56] initial idea was that we make the like simple three clicks interface and it will, it will

[00:31:01] be, uh, fine, but now we're making it even more, you know, uh, easy to use because we

[00:31:07] are, we are introducing the tutorial interface.

[00:31:10] So even, even in trick click interface, it still seems a bit, uh, difficult to, for people

[00:31:17] to understand.

[00:31:18] So that's why we're making it even more simple.

[00:31:20] So simplicity is a key.

[00:31:21] Uh, and, uh, I mean, a regulatory, regulatory clearance.

[00:31:28] I mean, the, the clarity, uh, there should be of course, some, uh, uh, some, some, some,

[00:31:38] some clarity in this.

[00:31:39] So the companies will be striving, uh, like doing well in this environment.

[00:31:45] Uh, and I think we'll, we'll, we'll, we're going there.

[00:31:48] We're going there slowly, but we are going there.

[00:31:50] The people already understand that you can transfer, uh, you, you can transfer USDT.

[00:31:55] It's cheaper.

[00:31:56] It's, it works, uh, 24, seven days a week.

[00:32:00] Uh, it's, it's better.

[00:32:02] It's so much better.

[00:32:03] So next step, the people understand that.

[00:32:05] Okay.

[00:32:06] Okay.

[00:32:06] You can use a deposit in a, in a bank, but you can use defy and it's so much better.

[00:32:12] It's so much easier and you can, you can earn so much more, uh, and you can do so much

[00:32:18] more interesting things.

[00:32:19] Uh, so that will be an education that people are going there.

[00:32:24] I, I love to see it.

[00:32:26] That sounds great to me.

[00:32:27] Um, so I want to very much thank you for, for speaking with me today.

[00:32:32] I really enjoyed speaking with you.

[00:32:33] Um, you guys are, this is really great stuff that I look forward to seeing this great bull

[00:32:38] market that is what I'm talking about tonight.

[00:32:40] I have one last question though.

[00:32:42] In the meantime, um, is it's a simple one is how can people find out more information

[00:32:46] about you about time IO?

[00:32:48] How can they start to use your platform, become customers, start earning real yield?

[00:32:53] How can they do that?

[00:32:55] Uh, very simple.

[00:32:57] I mean, you can just go to www.time.io.com.

[00:33:00] Uh, dot com.

[00:33:02] And, uh, from that, you can, you can check all the information.

[00:33:06] You can check, especially the documents section, which is, uh, the way we explain what's going

[00:33:11] on, how to use, uh, you can check some videos.

[00:33:16] Uh, basically it's, uh, I would not say it's super simple, but, uh, if you like invest

[00:33:21] 20, 20 minutes or 30 minutes, uh, I mean the, or even the regular person can understand

[00:33:29] what to do.

[00:33:30] So we are much easier than, uh, the option markets and in some cases, uh, the trading

[00:33:35] in on the exchange.

[00:33:38] So, and you just, uh, connect your wallet, uh, use Ethereum or Bitrum or base right now.

[00:33:46] We last, last few days we integrated base.

[00:33:49] Uh, and, uh, you can start by, uh, trying and seeing what happens.

[00:33:56] I mean, super clear, uh, we hope that it's easier to use.

[00:34:00] And, uh, in any case you, uh, I don't know, uh, for example, you can check, uh, my, my Twitter

[00:34:09] or ask some questions in, uh, social networks.

[00:34:13] Uh, uh, we have like official, of course, uh, uh, uh, telegram.

[00:34:17] We have official, uh, uh, Twitter account.

[00:34:20] Uh, we have a debunk account, which is huge.

[00:34:23] So the community is here.

[00:34:25] You just, you just start.

[00:34:27] Uh, that's it.

[00:34:30] Awesome.

[00:34:31] Awesome.

[00:34:31] Thank you very much for your time today.

[00:34:33] Uh, the pleasure is all mine.

[00:34:35] Jamil, thank you.

[00:34:36] Thank you for having me and, uh, let's hope, uh, we'll get a huge crypto Renaissance next

[00:34:43] year.

[00:34:45] Okay.

[00:34:45] Have a good day.

[00:34:47] Thank you very much.