Empathy-Driven Entrepreneurship: Johnny Crowder’s Journey with Cope Notes

[00:00:00] So what I wanted to do was replace, I wanted to make $40,000 salary from my own company. And I thought, probably by a year, I'll be able to pay myself that. In our first entire year in revenue, we made $8,000 total. That's gross, folks. That's not net. That's not profit. It was $8,000 total. And if you would have told me like, Johnny, you're going to do this for four and a half years and not make a dollar, I'd go, no, I won't. I won't do it. I'll quit way before then. I thank God I didn't.

[00:00:37] Welcome to the En Factor, conversations with entrepreneurs who started, stumbled and succeeded. I'm your host, Rebecca White, and I'm very excited to bring an episode to you today that was recorded in front of a student audience at the University of Tampa, where I'm a professor. I thought it might be nice to begin today by talking a little bit about my own background and how this podcast got started and how I became an educator.

[00:01:04] Before we dive into this episode that kind of takes you into one of my classrooms. So just going back a little bit, telling you a little bit about my own story and about how I got here. I started teaching when I was only 24 years old. I look back at it now and it was really quite a frightening experience.

[00:01:24] I had, I had, I'd gotten an undergraduate degree, had a few experiences with work that were somewhat unfulfilling. I even mentioned some of this in the episode today because I actually got fired from one of my early jobs.

[00:01:39] It was, it was in a bank and I was working in the HR department and I kind of saw that women there were being underpaid and I thought that wasn't fair and that they were being channeled into some dead-end kinds of positions. So I started to talk about that sort of indiscriminately. And well, you might guess the story. I walked in on a Friday and there was a letter saying that I didn't need to come back in on Monday.

[00:02:07] And the good news for me was that I went back to graduate school and I got my MBA and then my PhD later. And also there was the president at that bank actually lost his job and there was a big wage an hour audit.

[00:02:25] And so some of the things that I did actually made a difference, but I can't say that I went about them in the right way. I was pretty naive and probably pretty immature and didn't understand politics and how to make a difference and affect the difference in a meaningful way without losing my job.

[00:02:45] But anyway, that's another story for another time. But how I did end up teaching is I got my MBA and then moved to a small town. I'd gotten married and my husband at the time was an attorney there and there weren't a lot of jobs for people with MBAs.

[00:03:04] And so I started to teach. I learned that I was good at it and I loved it. And so I went back and I got my PhD and then went on to start to build entrepreneurship programs at several universities.

[00:03:21] And now I'm at the University of Tampa and I've been doing this for several decades. And it's been a wonderful platform for me to not only have an impact on the lives of others, but also to be always learning myself and growing. And I think staying around students has maybe helped keep me younger. So it's been a great experience and I've loved it.

[00:03:43] But how I started this podcast is another great story because in 2018, I had a couple of students who encouraged me to start a podcast. And I said, you know, I they had heard me as a guest on someone else's podcast.

[00:04:01] And I said, I have no idea how to start a podcast. And they said, it doesn't matter. We can help you. You just find some people to interview and interview them and we'll help get all the technology set up.

[00:04:15] And so, you know, it was it was a journey. But in 2019, at the Collegiate Entrepreneurs Organization International Conference in Tampa, Florida, we we launched the podcast and with five episodes. So I recorded five up front and tried to get sort of a cadence going. We launched those, posted them and the rest is history.

[00:04:44] I think I have about one hundred and seventy five closing in on two hundred episodes soon. I hope this year I should probably count and find out for sure. But it's been wonderful. And I've really enjoyed all the stories and it's been a great asset to my teaching as well. I've been interviewing entrepreneurs for years in the classroom, but to record them and put them out there to share with the wider audience has been such an honor and a joy.

[00:05:09] And I get to talk to amazing people like the one that that follows in this particular episode. This guest exemplifies the entrepreneurial spirit in so many ways in a very profound and inspiring way. I'm thrilled to introduce you to Johnny Crowder.

[00:05:26] He's the founder and CEO of Cope Notes, which is a mental health platform that delivers daily text messages designed to improve mental and emotional health through positive psychology, neuroplasticity and peer support. His story is really remarkable and I'm excited for you to get to hear it today.

[00:05:46] He's not only a tech founder, but also a touring musician, a TEDx speaker and a mental health advocate who has personally dealt with OCD, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. His journey from struggling with his own mental health challenges to creating a solution that helps thousands of people around the world is really inspiring. And I'm so glad we can share it here on The In Factor today.

[00:06:15] So I look forward to hearing what you think about coming into the classroom. You're going to hear a few answers to really insightful questions from students at the end. So I hope you enjoy it. So now let's move on to the interview portion. Our guest speaker for tonight, Mr. Johnny Crowder.

[00:06:38] Johnny Crowder is a suicide abuse survivor, TEDx speaker, touring musician, certified peer recovery specialist, founder and CEO of Cope Notes, a text-based mental health platform that provides daily support to users in 100 countries around the world. Armed with a decade of clinical treatment, an oncology degree from the University of Central Florida, 10 plus years of peer support and public advocacy experience through the National Alliance on Mental Health Illness. Johnny's useful vigor for mental health has impacted millions of lives across the world.

[00:07:03] Since his first keynote in 2011, his refreshingly candid perspective has attracted praise from hundreds of outlets, including Upworthy, the Entrepreneur Magazine, Forbes, and even CNN World. The weather leading corporate wellness trainees are touring with his billboard charting heavy metal band prison, which is awesome. Thank you all for coming tonight. It's such a pleasure to be here, and I'm very excited to have Johnny joining us today. Can you hear me okay? Is the volume okay?

[00:07:32] So we're, just so you know, we are actually recording a live recording for the In Factor podcast. I know some of you have listened to it in your classes or otherwise. That's why we've got all the equipment here. But I also want to mention that the university, through a generous gift from one of our donors, is now opening our own content creation studio. It's called the Standstill Sports Media Studio. It's a mouthful.

[00:08:02] Had to read it. But we're really excited. It's actually up, it's actually officially upstairs in this room. And some of this is equipment that was donated through that gift. So along with that, we're inviting you before you leave tonight, if you have an interest in learning about podcasting, starting your own podcast, or if you happen to have a podcast and you're interested in trying out and using the space,

[00:08:30] please sign up on the sheet here because we're going to have some training programs. I may actually also be offering a course next year in podcasting for entrepreneurs. I know there's a podcasting production course over in communications. And so hopefully we can work with them. But feel free to sign up. And I also know that Johnny brought some amazing material as well. And I don't know if you're going to talk about that in a few minutes,

[00:08:57] but he's very generously offering some benefits tonight for our guests. You want to mention that now? I'll make that quick. Dude, remind me your name. Julian. Can you do me a massive favor? So those two clipboards there, can you help me make sure they get through every row? Um, so what I did, I'll explain a little bit, but what I did was I brought a ton of stickers and wristbands, which no clipboard needed. You can grab them off the table.

[00:09:24] Um, but I have these two clipboards and I'm not selling you anything. I'm giving you something. Um, I have a speaking coach and he said, never sell from the stage, but you can always give from the stage. So I was trying to think, what can I give everybody here? And I'm giving everyone here a free week of cope notes. So that's daily mental health support via text messages, one text per day. At a random time that is proven to reduce stress, anxiety, and depression.

[00:09:49] So if you think, well, I don't have those things, liar, liar, sign up anyway. And if you actually don't experience stress or anxiety and depression, um, it's also proven to increase emotional intelligence, resilience, and coping skills. So this is a 100% free gift. It is anonymous. So I won't even know if you put a fake number, don't do that. Um, but please don't put your name. This won't charge you anything. It's just a way for me to share what we've been working on for seven years straight with all of you without you having to pay or share any of your health information. Wonderful. Thank you for that.

[00:10:18] And if you're driving on the highway around here, you've experienced stress. I don't know anybody that wouldn't experience stress. Um, there's plenty of that in life, but Johnny, thank you for joining us today. And thank you for agreeing to be on the in factor. I am so pumped this place. Do you guys understand that not every school looks like this? Have you been to other schools? I said, when I walked in, I said, this place is incredible. Like seven times. I'm surprised Gabriel didn't roll his eyes out of his head. I kept saying it over and over again. This place is extraordinary. You guys are really lucky.

[00:10:48] Thank you. Well, we're lucky to have you here tonight. So I want to dig into your story. I know you've got a great story, but before we get to that, I just want to know, did you always want to be an entrepreneur? Like when you were a kid, were you the kid that, you know, like my son that was selling stuff in the third grade, or, um, is this a surprise for, for you that you are doing what you're doing? My answer is both. So I never wanted to be a CEO in my entire life.

[00:11:17] Even now I'm like, I don't know how crazy I am about like the CEO title. Um, but I've always loved making stuff. So my life motto is I want to make stuff that helps people feel better. So that has three parts. I want to make stuff that doesn't exist right now. I want it to help people. So it's not for nothing. And then I want people to feel better as a result of whatever I created. So when I was little, I would, I'm not joking. Does anybody remember those colored pencil boxes by space maker? I'm not that much older.

[00:11:46] This one freaking guy is like, yes. So I used to pour glue. I don't know why I'm explaining the whole thing. I used to color the top of the box and then pour clear glue into it and let it dry. And then make bookmarks and sell them at school for $1. And I did this for years. And then eventually I, um, I started writing poems for people. Like if they wanted to give something to their girlfriend for like their one month anniversary,

[00:12:14] because we were kids and that was a big deal to date someone for a whole month. So I'd like write poems for them. And then, um, I made marshmallow guns out of PVC pipe and sold them door to door, which is the worst go-to-market strategy for marshmallow guns. Um, and then I started touring and playing music and designing our merchandise and our CD covers. I wrote our, I wrote our music. I wrote our lyrics. And so over time, I think there were signs, like if you could look back at me, you're like, that's an entrepreneur.

[00:12:42] But I never identified as one until very recently, like a couple of years into running my current company. Yeah. You know, my mom was an entrepreneur, but she was a creative. That's what she was. And so I, you know, I think entrepreneurs come from every background, but if you're a creative, I think you need a few entrepreneurial skills because that is really what, what, what can help you succeed with, with, with what you're trying to do. So I study entrepreneurial mindset a lot. So mindset's really important to me.

[00:13:12] I know mindset is a big part of what you do. So I think we can talk about that, but where did you, how did you, how did you get to where you are today? You know, how did you get from marshmallow guns to Coke notes and just a little bit about kind of the opportunity, how, how either you found that or it found you. My greatest asset has been ignorance. I'm not joking. I had no idea what I was getting myself into, which was wonderful.

[00:13:40] I didn't think about like, oh, I'll have to learn how to hire people or delegate, or I didn't, you guys know SunBiz, right? Like where you register a new company, you go to SunBiz. I didn't know how to do literally any of this, but I had decided in my head, like, I'm going to build a mental health project. So originally the beta version of Coke notes that some people know about is called not a therapist. That was the name of it. And I like bought a domain name on like, what is it? GoDaddy?

[00:14:10] No, it was a cheaper one than that. Okay. It was like $2.99 for a whole year. It was like a host Gator or something. I mean, it was a sketchy setup. But I bought a domain name for like $3. And the idea was that you could schedule time to talk with a peer with lived experience, like someone who had experience living with depression or anxiety or stress, bipolar. And then you could like book a time to meet with them. And by them, I mean me, because no one worked for me because I have any frigging money.

[00:14:39] Um, so the, the original version of Coke notes was so duct taped together. I cannot explain this to you. And if I knew what it would require to build Coke notes to be what it is today, I would have been so intimidated that I wouldn't have even tried. So I'm a big fan of, um, MVP, like the minimum viable product. Like if you have an idea, build the worst version of it. And then just like, let people tell you what parts of it suck.

[00:15:09] Um, and then slowly iterate because Coke notes is, it's 10 times cooler than anything I ever could have invented on my own today. And it's because I just kept putting out like version five, version six, version seven, based on basically complaints from people saying that, Oh, I wish it did this, or I wish it didn't do that. So I kind of crowdsourced what it is today. And I think if I had the reason why I credit ignorance is because if I had such a clear, crystal clear vision of what I wanted to build, I wouldn't have been

[00:15:38] open to listen to the ideas that made Coke notes as good as it is today. Uh, that, uh, that's a great story because you know, my, uh, I've heard often and I've seen often in it and I've experienced that, um, you know, whatever you think it's going to be, it's going to be different. Whatever you think it's going to cost, it's going to cost more and however long you think it's going to take, it's going to take a lot longer. Would you say that? I literally, you know what I did? I thought I was so noble. I was like, I'm not going to take a paycheck for one whole year.

[00:16:08] I'm a hero and I didn't take a paycheck for four and a half years. It was crazy. I thought I was being so like Superman to defer my own pay. Do you know what we made in revenue in our first year? Anyone want to guess? Somebody guess zero. Give me some credit fool. $200. I, so what I wanted to do was replace. I wanted to make $40,000 salary for my own company. And I thought probably by a year, I'll be able to pay myself that in our first entire year in revenue.

[00:16:38] We made $8,000 tote. That's gross folks. That's not net. That's not profit. It was $8,000 total. And I, if you would have told me like Johnny, you're going to do this for four and a half years and not make a dollar. I'd go, no, I won't. I won't do it. I'll quit way before then. I thank God I didn't. Well, so you got passionate about this. What, what led you to this, um, this business? And well, before you do that, what is cope notes? Like, what do you do?

[00:17:07] And then how did you get, you know, what led you to this opportunity? Yeah. So if you're not familiar with cope notes, um, we send one randomly timed text message to your phone every day, but you don't know when we will send it or, or what the text will say. Um, and the texts are written by real human beings, not chat GPT, real human beings with lived experience, overcoming stress, anxiety, depression. Um, and then all of like, I have OCD and PTSD and bipolar.

[00:17:34] So we have all of these peers who have created these messages that contain, they're not texting you like smile, like have a good day. It's real health education content. That's based on proven psychology. So we're talking psychology facts, journaling prompts, exercises that are reviewed by clinicians and based on proven psychology, trauma informed, all that stuff. And the idea is that with one randomly timed interruption every day, your brain is actually

[00:18:00] forced to form new neural pathways associated with coping skills and resilience and positive thought. So we kind of jokingly say that it's brain surgery without the scalpel, um, because your, your brain is physically changing as a result of these random interruptions, but it takes 10 seconds per day to interact. And honestly, the, I'm kind of embarrassed to say why we, uh, so all I'm not embarrassed about why I pursued working in mental health.

[00:18:29] I am embarrassed to say why we chose text message. We chose text message because I couldn't figure out how to develop an app is the real reason, but I knew that I could rent a, an SMS marketing service for $20 a month. So the original version of cope notes was, I cannot describe how sketchy this was. Um, it was me copying and pasting. Well, originally it was me sending numbers from my phone, from my phone with my thumbs, uh, with a Google voice number, which was free. So I'm telling you, like you can bootstrap this stuff.

[00:18:59] But the thing that brought me to wanting to work in mental health in the first place is I grew up, anybody know where Oldsmar is? Okay. Some local people, just a couple people. Okay. So I grew up like in the sticks. Basically I had no neighbors. Uh, my closest neighbors were horses. I grew up right on Tampa Bay and, um, I didn't have a lot of friends because I really struggled

[00:19:24] with bipolar and schizophrenia and OCD, um, to the point where it was really difficult to like make eye contact or hold conversations with people and make connections. And then when I would go home, my, my family was abusive. So both my parents and my brothers, I couldn't be safe at home. And then I was bullied at school. It was like the perfect storm of a bunch of different mental health diagnoses. So there was like a biological component, the, the nature component. But then there was the nurture component of like spending every day in an abusive environment.

[00:19:53] And I had this idea that if I did something about the pain, then that would be like acknowledging that it's there. So I wanted to like bury my head in the sand for as long as possible. I was embarrassed, um, about what I was going through and you couldn't pay me to talk to someone about this is what I'm thinking, or this is what I'm feeling. And so over time I'm skipping a lot. Um, over time I started treatment at high school. I went to school for psychology and I became really passionate about supporting people who

[00:20:21] were like me, like people who didn't want to go to therapy, didn't want to take medication. Maybe they didn't have money to do those things or their family wasn't supportive of what they needed because like, I'm not joking. My dad was like, mental health is like fake science. And I'm like, I went to college for this. It's kind of real science. Um, I know that people are either stopping themselves from using resources that they need or, um, they're being stopped by circumstance or by people they love.

[00:20:50] So I wanted to build something that could circumvent a lot of those barriers to care to help people who thought that they didn't have an option. Wow. Well, you know, there's so much in there really, I think that all of us can relate to, and, and I'm sure, you know, the data and the statistics a lot more than I do, but I, I understand that even since, um, since COVID mental health has declined in this country and around the world,

[00:21:16] I know college age students struggle and we don't have enough help even for the people that want help. Um, you know, so, uh, kudos to you for finding a way, I guess. So, so you started down this path and I've often heard that studying psychology, all of us that study psychology at one point or another, it's to kind of figure ourselves out. Right. Oh yeah. No, one's like, I'm just curious. You know, I've never met anyone who got a psych degree. It was like, I'm fine.

[00:21:43] You know, all of us were like either us or a friend or family member. We're like, I have to understand what they're going through or what I'm going through. Yeah. Yeah. So you studied psychology and then, then did, did the whole business start as cope notes or did it start? I know you do other things. I know you speak, you have a, you have had a podcast, you've done a lot of things. Did the business start as cope notes and kind of, where did you get that idea?

[00:22:09] And, and tell us a little about the research, um, that maybe led you to this and how you found that. Yeah. So I want to get really nerdy and I might lose half the audience, but the other half is going to be like, yeah, give me more. Um, so I went to school for psychology and that the, there were a few turning points that really, cause my plan a was to be a rock star and I had no plan B I have a throat tattoo guys. Like I committed to, to metal and, uh, I didn't really plan on like, oh yeah, I'll be the CEO

[00:22:39] of a mental health organization. But there were a few things in college that really tipped me towards like, I want to build something in this space. The first was the whole concept of peer support. Like I mentioned, which is someone with lived experience, supporting someone else else with lived experience. Um, that fascinated me because I didn't want to be a doctor. I had no desire to, to be in school for the rest of my life. I wanted to like get out in the world and do something. And peers meant like, oh, have you been abused? And I'm like, yeah.

[00:23:08] And they're like, you can use it for something good. And I'm like, what? No way. I thought it was like a net loss and now it can be a net gain. So I felt so empowered by that. And the other thing that I learned about in school is, uh, so I was really fascinated by neuroscience in school, but specifically here's the nerdy part. If you guys want to go home and look at this, like, look this stuff up. It is fascinating. It is called ecological momentary intervention or EMI.

[00:23:34] And if you've ever heard the phrase, um, synapses that fire together, wire together. Have you ever heard that? That means that the more often you think a thought, the more likely you are to think it again, because your brain is trying to conserve calories. So this means that if when you wake up in the morning, you think, oh, today's going to suck. And you think it again tomorrow. And again, the next day, the synapses that allow that thought to happen. So all a thought is, is a synapse shooting a charge to another synapse. That's all that's happening in your brain.

[00:24:05] And the more, God bless you. The more often you think a thought, the closer those synapses grow to improve the efficiency of the thought. I promise I'm almost done, but this is so freaking cool. Stay with me. What happens when we send an interruption, this is ecological momentary intervention is imagine like, uh, imagine your synapses, like two people throwing a Frisbee to each other. And, uh, they keep throwing the Frisbee and their arms are getting tired. So like, we might as well stand a little closer together.

[00:24:33] Every time we throw the Frisbee cope notes, we deliver these EMIs and it's like a golden retriever jumping up and snatching the Frisbee. And this is really frustrating to the synapses. They're like, geez, every time we throw this Frisbee, this golden retriever jumps up and snaps it. In fact, I'm done playing catch with you. This is really annoying. I'm going to go play catch with somebody else. So your synapses migrate away from each other. This is physical. It's happening inside of your brain. The synapses migrate away from each other out of sheer frustration.

[00:25:01] And then other synapses migrate closer together to improve the efficiency of a different thought. So literally if right now, okay, I won't show you. Um, but I will tell you that when I was growing up, I had a shirt that said negative outlooks. It was this band called the bonus army. They had a song called negative outlooks. And I thought it was so freaking cool. I'd go to school wearing my negative outlook shirt. And I was like, I'm so freaking tough right now on my whole torso. I have PMA real gangster style, uh, tattooed. It says it stands for positive mental attitude.

[00:25:30] So I went from one of the most negative people I had ever met to one of the most sincerely, not toxically positive, sincerely positive people I've ever met. And it's not that I like sheer willed myself to be different. It was like basic neuroscience. And every day as I grew into the type of person, I didn't think I could become, I became so passionate about helping other people discover how to do that. So how did that happen?

[00:25:56] I mean, did you figure this out as a student and start your own path or did you have a guide or did it come from some of the peer work that you were doing? Man, how cool would it be if I like all me, baby? No, nobody helped me. Started from the bottom. Now we hear I, uh, had so many people help me. I can't even count them. I had, uh, of course I had a therapist that I went to for many years. I worked with multiple therapists over the years. Um, I also took medication.

[00:26:26] So I want to say that like, uh, I wish we lived in a world where there was like no biological component to some of this and you could just brute force it. But the fact is that some people in this room, statistically speaking, have a mental health condition that has a biological component. And my sincere belief as someone who I was medicated for 11 years, I've been off medication for seven years now and I'm healthier than I've ever been, but I needed medication for

[00:26:53] a decade and then change after that because the biological component was so gripping to my psyche. So I would encourage anyone, anytime you hear someone telling like, and this is how I got better. Um, and you don't hear medication, it doesn't mean that they didn't use medication. So please drop that stigma. If that, if that exists in you where you're like, oh, I should be able to do it without medication. Yeah. I should be able to lift a car, right?

[00:27:22] If I work out really hard only I can't because my body has physical limitations. So please acknowledge those. I'm going to jump off the soapbox for the medication thing. Um, and I will also say we live in an era. I rely so heavily on books, podcasts. Um, I bought an online course for $7. That's like cheaper than a book. It's I, we are so blessed to live in a time where like you're how many people have been through a breakup in the last three years?

[00:27:52] Raise your hand. Now put your hands down. How many of you like watched a video about how to get over a breakup? Y'all are slacking. Oh my word. There's so much good stuff out there from, and I mean, from clinicians, people, you would have to pay $200 to sit down with for an hour. And they made a YouTube video about it for free. I have relied not only on friends and family and mentors, but also so heavily on books and podcasts and YouTube.

[00:28:19] If you're not leveraging those things to improve your mental and emotional health every day, you are missing out. YouTube university works. Yeah. There's a, education's been disrupted for a long time and, uh, there's so much information out there, so much to learn. So, so basically to, you know, to bring that full circle, it was a combination of, of a therapy, medication, and understanding about this whole, uh, model that got you started on your own

[00:28:48] path to moving from negativity to more positivity. Um, how do you think about optimism and positivity? Is that, um, you know, because there's the whole field of learned optimism and I talk about optimism as part of an entrepreneurial mindset. And so what do you think about, how do you define all of that and think about all that? Yeah, I'm very, it's funny. So my shirt for people listening, they can't see my shirt. Um, it says goodbye, negative thoughts.

[00:29:16] And the original slogan for cope notes was actually negative thoughts suck. And we got a lot of feedback about that. Um, and some of the feedback was actually from clinicians and they were like, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but actually negative thoughts are really valuable. Like a negative thought might be this guy with a ski mask on might rob me. He is holding a gun and I don't like guns. These are negative thoughts and they protect us.

[00:29:46] We have negative thoughts every day and many of them are very valuable. So I really had to challenge this idea of, you know, I had this, I had this vision of who I wanted to become. And it was like this Zen monk that like never had a negative thought ever. Like I could get hit by a car and I'd be like, oh, it is God's will that I've been hit by this car. Um, and I think I've slowly started to understand that like, if you deny the reality, if you pretend

[00:30:13] that something is not difficult, there's a lot less utility in that than we think we sort of prolong our healing. Like I'm, so I live with complex PTSD from abuse, um, CPTSD. And one of like the things that you read in every book about CPTSD is you have to like feel your feelings all the way. And I remember I was just reading this book. It's called the whole again. If anyone's ever been in an abusive relationship, I strongly recommend it whole again.

[00:30:41] And it was like, I need to warn you that if you read this book, you will feel worse before you feel better. And it's because you're going to actually feel the feelings that you've been telling yourself aren't really there. But that's such an important stage of the healing process. So I think my original idea of positivity and optimism was like, we can do anything. I don't care what we're up against.

[00:31:07] And I've slowly learned to acknowledge the reason why we use goodbye negative thoughts as our slogan now is because we're not saying negative thoughts suck. We're not saying they're not welcome. We're literally saying goodbye the same way that you say goodbye to a friend or family member when you leave. It is not a dismissing of negative thoughts. It is not pretending that they don't exist. It's making sure that we don't carry them for longer than they provide us utility. So the idea isn't to not have them. It's to not hang on to them.

[00:31:36] Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And a healthy dose of realism is important as an entrepreneur, right? Because you can get a little overly optimistic and get ahead of your skis there and get in trouble, especially on the finance side. Yeah. So it's good to be optimistic, but also to have a dose of realism in there and be honest, I guess. Honesty is a big part of it. I will share too. One day people in this room will have employees.

[00:32:05] One thing I encourage you to do is not allow your optimism to lead to dishonesty with your team. So I worked at a startup before I started my own and I was the third employee. We eventually grew to like 80 employees. I was literally working out of the founder's apartment when we started and it became this huge project. And I remember the founder, I missed a paycheck. Like I wasn't paid and this was automated. Like it's supposed to show up its direct deposit.

[00:32:35] And I went to him and I was like, what's going on? He's like, yeah, we're just having issues with our payroll provider. We're switching HR. And I kept believing that for months. And I found eventually that the company went bankrupt and I had worked for two and a half months for free full time. So I was wage thefted, like a lot of money. And then when Cope knows was in a similar position where we're going to run out of money, I called our only employee at the time. And I said, Matt, I'm going to be honest with you.

[00:33:02] And I'm so positive that we're going to make it through this, but I have to be real with you. I can pay you for two more months and then not the company doesn't have money, but I don't have, I'm paying you from my bank account and I'm out of money in two months. So I want to be straight up with you. I believe that we can make it through this. So there's the optimism. I'm not worried, but I can't be dishonest with you. And we did make it through that. Thank God.

[00:33:29] But I encourage you to not allow optimism to lead to dishonesty. I think it's really easy to be like, I'm the one that has to steer the ship and I have to lift everyone's spirits. And you can accidentally lie to people who are depending on you. Yeah, that's a good story. And did Matt, was it Matt? Matt, you said that he stayed with you? Yeah, it's so funny. So he, interesting story about Matt. He started early, early in Cope Notes history. He sent me a message on Facebook and was like, I saw you perform at a comedy show like years ago.

[00:33:59] And I read about what you were doing and I'm wondering if you need engineering help. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. This is so early. Right. And he wound up working with me for like three or four years. And I, when I called him, I said, I don't blame you if you start looking for another job because I am going to run out of money. And he said, I appreciate you letting me know. And I will keep an eye out. And then we wound up closing. We closed a hundred thousand dollar contract, which was like so much more money than we had ever made before.

[00:34:28] And I called him and I was like, Matt, I can pay you for like a lot more months now. And I was so excited. And we actually worked together for a few years after that point, but it was, it sort of, there's something really humbling about leveling with like the only person helping you like, dude, I made a big bet on this and I think I might lose. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about building this company a little bit. So you started seven years ago. You said? Yeah. So we're, uh, I'm not counting the beta version or the beta version of that.

[00:34:58] Um, but I'm starting like when Cope Notes LLC was established was February, 2018. So we just, we just turned seven years old officially seven years in revenue. So tell us about building that company. You started it pretty much on your own with this vision of, was it the same vision of, of interrupting the, the mental negative thoughts through notes that would come to people. It is that.

[00:35:26] So you started it with that seven years ago, Matt was your first employee. Tell us about building the company. Like what is the progress been, uh, to today? Yeah, we, um, I'm very grateful to still have the same mission that we set out. Like if you asked me seven years ago, what does Cope Notes do? And you asked me today, I would have the same answer, which is very rare. Um, because a lot of founders have, have you ever heard of shiny object syndrome? It's like, Oh, there's something new.

[00:35:56] How, Oh dude, there's some crypto stuff happening. And then it's like, I dropped this and start a crypto project and then, Oh, crypto tanked. But you know what's really in. And then I shifted that and shifted that a lot of founders, especially young founders. I'm including myself in that for another couple months. And then I turned 33 and I can't, um, but young founders can be really quick to like jump to different things. We've stayed so true to our core ethos of like what we're trying to accomplish that we've actually said no to tremendous opportunities in order to stay the course.

[00:36:24] And we actually, our first insurance contract ever, uh, which is a huge deal. It's hard to contract with insurance companies. I asked them why they would work with a company so small with the smallest company they've ever worked with, uh, by, by a long shot. And, um, they said it's because you're the only founder that we've met with that for years has been working on the same thing. You haven't deviated from that. So we've really dug in. We're not doing video courses. We're not doing chat with a therapist online.

[00:36:54] We're not doing fill your medication prescription. We're not doing any of that stuff. We're like choosing to do one thing extraordinarily well. What has changed a ton is our go-to-market. So our product becomes better and better at the one thing that we're choosing to be excellent at. But when I first started Cote Notes, I thought just people like you and me would sign up. So 10 bucks a month. How hard could that possibly be? Uh, pretty hard. Cause you need like a jillion people to decide to buy it, to make any kind of money that you

[00:37:23] would need to hire the team to build the company in the first place. And so actually a big pivot for us that opened up a lot of doors was we had a request from, um, this is a lesson in listen to your market. Like they, they will tell you what to build. It's crazy. It's like the ultimate hack. Like I didn't have any of these ideas and I was on tour. Uh, we played, played Iowa, Moyne, Iowa place called Woolies. And, uh, we were on tour with a band called suicide silence, like this sort of infamous death core band.

[00:37:52] And we're playing this big show in Woolies. It was like one of the highlights of my whole music career. And, uh, this guy comes up to the merch table and he's like, Hey, I heard that you're, uh, working on not a therapist. This was like early, early. And he's like, do you think you could do it for, uh, like the foster care system in the state of Iowa? Like I work with a foster care organization. I was like, no, no shot. I have no idea how I would do that. Um, but thanks anyway, like give me your email.

[00:38:19] And then maybe if I decide to figure out how to do that, I'll send you an email. And then a few weeks later on that same tour, we're in South Florida. We play somewhere in Miami and, uh, this guy comes up and says, Hey, would you, um, would you do that? But for a treatment center, cause we have, you know, people are getting sober and then they're getting discharged and going back into their daily life. This would be great for them for our alumni program. And I was like, no, like, I also don't know how to do that, but give me your email.

[00:38:46] And then on that same tour, we play Dallas and this woman walks up to the merch table and says, this is really cool. Would you do it? Uh, would you do it for the school district of Dallas? And I was like, uh, how many people is that? And she was like, students. And I was like, no, like what the heck? We had like 25 subscribers at the time. And then I was like, besides that would cost you like $8 million. And she was like, I know the prices are on your website. And I was like, oh my Lord, I have to build this.

[00:39:16] So I think the, the, the one thing that has stayed true the whole time is like what we set out to accomplish, but how we accomplish that continues to change based on what the market tells us they need. So when you tell us about what you had to change at that point, so you were pretty much talking to a general audience, but you, you had a new target customer. And I totally agree with you that if you listen, your audience will tell you what you need to be doing. So kudos to you for that, for listening.

[00:39:46] Cause a lot of entrepreneurs don't, they fall in love with what they're doing and they don't listen. So what, what had to change? I mean, you, did you, uh, you know, how did you navigate that? Freaking everything had to change guys. I was, I was, so remember when I said I was texting people like from my phone, that was like version D, which is embarrassing. That was a few versions in the next version was me using that SMS marketing software and

[00:40:11] copying and pasting messages from Google sheets into the SMS marketing software. Like everything was so manual. And I'm like, if we have 165,000 kids using this, like I literally couldn't hire enough people to do this. So I was like, we have to automate at least some, if not all of this. And there was no technology. Like what exists today is beyond anything.

[00:40:35] So we have, we have a custom built SMS text scheduler that we buy SMS wholesale credits that were like whitelisted by every major phone carrier. We have a government approved toll free number. And we have the scheduler that we built from scratch code that randomly selects a day, a user, a time, and an intervention. And is doing that tens of thousands of times. Like, but no two people ever get the same text at the same time.

[00:41:02] Do you understand the complexity that it would require to like enroll 5 million new users and have all of them get different texts at different times every day? Like infinite permutations of a finite library. Plus you owe these people reporting. So like, if you sign with a school district, they want a dashboard. They want to see metrics and engagement. They want outcomes. They want graphs and quotes that are anonymized from real users. I'm like, dude, I can't do any of that.

[00:41:28] So it took years to build even the most rudimentary version of that, partially because we didn't have any money. And partially because I didn't know what I was doing. Did you raise money along the way? No. And you know what? I didn't know that I could. I'm not joking. If I knew that I could tell some rich dude in a suit that I had a cool idea and that he should pay for me to eat dinner tonight so I can work on it. Oh my Lord. I absolutely would have accepted the help.

[00:41:57] I had no idea. And by the time I actually had a real conversation with an investor, like a venture firm, what they were offering, I was like, I'm pretty sure we can close that in revenue now. So I took a big scary bet. And fortunately that continues to pay off because we've now bootstrapped for seven years. We have no plans to raise capital. There has to be luck in there because that's extraordinary.

[00:42:27] And I don't take full credit for like, oh, it's because I'm a genius. I think a big part of it was like, I didn't know I could have asked for money. And also I didn't know that you could like co-found a company with somebody because I sure as heck wouldn't have done it by myself if I knew I could have had help. Shoot. So, you know, you're now part of Embark and, or you have been. And so that's one of the local accelerator programs.

[00:42:51] And so, you know, as I listened to that, it kind of reminds me of the value of some of what we offer here and what university programs and incubators and accelerators offer. It's just that, you know, that recognizing you don't have to do it alone. And these are some of the options for you. So I know we're getting close to the time where we're going to turn it over to Q&A from the audience, but I have a couple of questions I got to ask you.

[00:43:18] So I do a lot on entrepreneurial mindset and I talk about opportunity recognition is one. And we've talked about that and being willing to step out and take risks and take action, even when you don't know what you're doing. Number two, competency. And number three is the resilience to execute past failure. Have you ever failed on this pathway?

[00:43:42] And do you have a story or tell us how you, how you deal with failure or how do you think about failure? Yeah, we, I'm going to shameless plug myself first, and then I'm going to tell you a very embarrassing story. Shameless plug is my band is called Prison and we have a song called The Failure Anthem. If you have Spotify or Apple Music or YouTube or whatever, I strongly encourage you to look

[00:44:09] that up and read the lyrics because that song is literally about the experience of failing and the, the chorus, uh, the lyrics are time and time again, I try time and time again, I fail the odds against me every time, but at least I tried, at least I care. That is how I feel about this. I would so much rather guys, this is my advice for every entrepreneur. And you can cut this out of the podcast.

[00:44:36] If you don't want it in there, my advice for every entrepreneur is don't you dare do this. Don't you dare be an entrepreneur if any part of you can have a normal job. Like if some part of you is like, yeah, I can have a nine to five and close my computer at five o'clock and have a normal weekend and a normal weekday and have work-life balance and not have all that risk. Dog, don't you dare start a company. Take advantage, take full advantage of the part of you that is, that is cool with that balance.

[00:45:05] But there are some of us that are so uniquely strange that we like fail in environments like that. And therefore we would rather fail trying to build something that we love than succeed doing something that we don't love. So I look at my, like if cope notes exploded tomorrow and it didn't exist, I mean shrapnel everywhere. It all disappears. Guys, I'm 32 years old. Like I could go do whatever the heck I want.

[00:45:33] And I will have the benefit of having spent seven years doing work that I know matter. Like that, every time I think about my problems, the problems that come with entrepreneurship is like failure and tons of fear, your friends and family not understanding or supporting you. Like all these things are very real. But I will tell you that I would rather have those problems. My therapist says, choose your problems. I would rather have those problems than the problems that my other friends have where

[00:46:01] they tell me I lie in bed at night knowing that I have no idea what I meant for, what I'm supposed to do. I know I'm in the wrong job. And then I show up every day and I get that paycheck and I just feel like I'm wasting away. I have never felt that way. I've felt afraid. I felt broke. I felt very discouraged, but I've never wondered if I'm doing the right thing. And all of us will die.

[00:46:28] And it will really have mattered how we spent our time on this earth. And that is like the gift that entrepreneurship gives you that so many other things can't is a certainty. I sleep like a freaking baby, guys. And it's because I know that I'm doing what I'm meant for. That is so awesome. Little known fact that this story is not about me, but I got fired from my first job. No way you did not. What happened? I was working at a bank and I stole money.

[00:46:54] Yeah, I didn't do anything unethical, but I identified a problem there and was a little too vocal about it. And they ended up being audited and actually lost his job. But before all that happened, I got fired. I went back to grad school and kind of, you know, continued on my life. I have I have this HR lady at my last job and she said something about me that I think would apply to you. I don't know you well enough to say this, but she said this to me and I was so offended, but so encouraged.

[00:47:22] She said, Johnny, you're an awesome worker, but you're a terrible employee. Yeah, that's probably me too. I think that's probably you too. Yeah, that's me too. And that's probably everybody that finds their way to entrepreneurship. So my last question for you before we open it up, I always ask at the end of my podcast, if you had one piece of advice, something that you wish somebody had told you before you started down this path.

[00:47:48] You've given us a lot of great insights today, but what do you wish you had known or what would that one piece of advice be? I think the lie that I bought that discouraged me the most in my first few years, probably in the first four years, I felt so discouraged because I kept thinking this is so much harder for me than it is for everybody else. Like you see these like TikTok and Instagram entrepreneurs and they're like in front of a

[00:48:15] Lambo and they're like, if you want to make $250,000 a month, this is all you have to do. Boom, boom, boom. And I'm like, am I a freaking idiot? Like what is with me? Why are these like finance bros raking it in? And why is it taking me years to get the traction that I hoped for? And I just wish to God someone would have come to me and said, Johnny, if this was easy, everybody would do it. Like there's a reason why almost nobody does this. And it's because it is hard.

[00:48:41] If someone would have been honest with me about how difficult it was, I wouldn't have judged myself for how long it was taking me to make progress. So if you've been trying to build something, like I'll just share, I have a friend who I won't name. He is on his, I think, fourth company. His first couple of companies failed, maybe fifth company. His first couple of companies went out of business quickly. The next company raised like $15 million. That also failed.

[00:49:10] Then he started another business that did a million dollars in its first year in revenue. And he just started another business. This guy is 26 years old. This guy had massive monumental failures. Like I can't count how many times we've been on the phone talking about these difficult things. And it's like, you need just as many people to tell you that it's possible. You need just as many people to tell you that it's hard so that not only do you have

[00:49:40] the optimism to believe that you can do it, but you also don't delude yourself into thinking, oh, if I was going to succeed, I would have by now. That is such BS. Failure is a part of it. Losing is a part of it. It taking a long time is a part of it. Please don't think that your idea is bad just because it's taking a while to catch. Yeah. That's great advice. Great advice. Thank you. So I know we have some questions from the audience, Gabe, I think, or maybe let's have time for a few. Hello. How do you market this service?

[00:50:08] And if there are multiple ways that you do so, what do you think? Or what has been the most successful thing? Great question. So I used to work at a branding firm, actually, advertising and branding. And my background is in creative. So like copywriting, graphic design, stuff like that. So I'm very lucky that I have naturally like a marketing mindset. I think that's a great skill. If anyone here is looking into entrepreneurship, but you haven't done like a copywriting course

[00:50:35] or a graphic design course or a marketing or branding or advertising course, please consider it. It is so invaluable to have that perspective. Um, I will say that of our revenue, I can loosely break it up into three. Uh, I was going to say quadrants, but quadrants is four, three, what try dense, um, three, three sections. Uh, the first is that about a third of our revenue comes from conferences. We found this to be really successful.

[00:51:03] It's like going to a conference, setting up a table in an exhibit hall because we have these, we have this massive banner. It's like 10 feet wide, bright green. And it says goodbye, negative thoughts. And people take photos in front of it. They freaking love it. Um, so, oh, and then we give a free week of cope notes to everyone at the conference. So like by day two or day three of the conference, people are like, oh, I got my cope notes text. They come back to the table and they're like, oh, I want to sign up my daughter. Like, wait, my boss is here. I'm going to bring her by, or I'm going to write down her number.

[00:51:30] So there's that we do very well in conference settings. Um, I also am a professional public speaker. So I give keynotes at conferences all across the country, maybe four times a month. I'm in a different state on stage in front of a few hundred or a few thousand people. Um, and I talk a lot about my experiences, my personal experiences. And a lot of times people will hear me and then say, I'm wondering if we could use cope

[00:51:57] notes for my student, my, my son's school district. And we'll like make an email introduction or something. So about a third of our revenue comes from conferences like exhibit halls. About a third comes from me speaking and people just organically saying like, Hey, can I connect you with, uh, my employer or my, a nonprofit that my wife works for or something like that. And then about a third is sheer word of mouth, which is just bananas that a third of our revenue

[00:52:22] comes from people using it and then buying a subscription for somebody else or making an introduction. But I would say those are the three like broad buckets that we've broken down our revenue into. Yeah. Uh, great question. I'm very passionate about this. I could do a whole separate talk about just this. Um, I have memory loss. I'm from medication that I took.

[00:52:49] I used to take antipsychotic medication, which would help, um, me not hallucinate. And this medication is known to cause memory loss. So I live with memory loss. Like I feel I'm bummed, but I forgot your name already. And that's not fair. That's not fair to you, but it happens to me all the time. So I'll see someone at the gym or something and they'll go like Johnny. And I'm like, what's up dog? And then they walk away and I'm like, who the heck was that? And that happens to me all the time.

[00:53:16] Um, so I, when I gave my first Ted talk, they said I had to memorize it. And I was like, buddy, I don't know how to tell you this, but I can't, I can't. Um, and the way that I always talk is I give myself an outline and this is bullet pointed. If I'm speaking for an hour, maybe it's two pages bullet pointed, but it's, uh, one and a half space. And I make sure to include the key.

[00:53:40] So if it's like a story about like, I have a story about going to subway, um, and it'll just say subway. So for me, I know that like five minute block of the talk is the subway story and I will have my notes facing me. So I keep them. Uh, sometimes I'll have like a downstage monitor where I can see my notes and I'll have a little clicker. Sometimes it's just on a podium like this. Um, and I'll only glance. So I'm not reading, but I'm glancing to make sure that I'm at the part of the talk that I should be.

[00:54:09] So I don't deviate too much, but I would strongly recommend, um, if you want to keep people engaged for an entire hour and you memorize a talk, not only is that more work for you, but it's less engaging for them. So I'd strongly encourage everybody to not only speak from an outline. Um, but also these two things made a big difference for me. Number one, I give the talk before I get on stage in my hotel room. I give the entire talk and I record it and I've done that so many gosh dang times.

[00:54:35] Um, I do it from my outline and I try that by the time I get onto the stage, it's not my first time giving the talk. Sometimes I would give it, if it's a new talk, I'd give it two or three times in the hotel room the couple of days before. Um, and the other thing is if you have not taken anyone taking improv classes, raise your hand. Oh my word, everybody else in this room. I don't care how corny you think improv is. First of all, it's more fun than you've ever had in your entire life.

[00:54:58] And second of all, this will teach you, I have to shut up after this, but I, uh, another issue that I had for my medication was I had something called tardive dyskinesia, which is an involuntary movement disorder that can sometimes freeze your tongue and lips. So it can become difficult to form complete sentences to speak clearly like with diction. So I had to relearn to speak out loud. This took a long time. This took years.

[00:55:28] So if you can imagine, I was on tour with my band and I could not talk to fans afterwards because my tongue would freeze in my mouth. And I cannot credit improv enough with helping me work on diction, on storytelling, on making eye contact with people, on listening well actively, and then responding accordingly on reading a crowd and energy. So if you haven't taken an improv class yet, I cannot recommend more highly.

[00:55:56] If you plan on being an entrepreneur, if you plan on being a speaker, if you plan on like being a good boyfriend or girlfriend to somebody, it communication is really important. If you plan on working somewhere and communicating well with leadership, improv will make all of the difference. Yeah, I will say I cried a lot. So that's an important part of it, I think, is that you got to cry. I prayed a lot. I'm like a big Jesus dude.

[00:56:25] So I looked at God and I'm just like, you better freaking figure this out. Like I bet everything on this. Um, and I think I remember thinking like, if this doesn't work out, I know myself, I'm just going to try to do something just like this afterwards. I knew it's sort of like, uh, I talked with like this big private equity firm and they were like interviewing a bunch of companies to buy, like they were going to buy my company. And they were like, Oh, what would you do if we bought the company?

[00:56:54] And I'm like, I would apply for a job at Cope Notes. Like I freaking love doing this. And I know that if you didn't want to hire me, I'd turn around and do something else in the mental health world because I'm so passionate. So I think it was this, it was that idea before where I would rather fail, like go all the way. Have you ever been on a, you ever been driving and you're like low on gas and then it says like seven miles and you're like, Ooh, that's not good. And then it says three miles and you're like, Ooh, that's not good. And then it says dash dash. And you're like, Oh my Lord. Like I'm gonna have to push my freaking car.

[00:57:24] Um, imagine seeing the dash dash and going, I'm freaking gunning it. I'm gunning. I would rather like run out of gas and try to let the momentum of my car push me across the bridge than just try to ration it and be as safe as possible. It was this, like, it was the idea that I would rather, um, it's that I would rather fail doing something I love and not, um, it wasn't like I wanted to go out in a blaze of glory.

[00:57:50] It was that it would feel so inauthentic of me to quit before my bank account actually said zero dot zero zero. Pure game. I think I need gas. Such a cool question. Um, I do Q and a and talks like all over almost nobody asks about discipline. I think it's like one of the most important ingredients. Did anybody ever do taekwondo when they were younger? Oh, what? Okay. I'm like, has anybody ever watched a video about a breakup? Nobody.

[00:58:20] Anybody do taekwondo? Freaking 50 people have done taekwondo in this room. Um, taekwondo, a big principle that they taught me when I was younger was discipline. I don't do martial arts now. Um, but I remember taking that very seriously. Like I, um, and the type of person who, for example, I'm, I don't use drugs or alcohol. I never have tried drugs or alcohol. I've never vaped. I've never tried a sip of wine at church. I've never literally never touched drugs or alcohol. And it is a commitment that I made to be a good steward of my body.

[00:58:50] And that matters so much to me. And I think discipline to me is essential in a way that it might not be essential for people who are more naturally skilled than me. So what I mean is like, um, have you ever left a test and you like walk out and you're like, holy crap, that was really hard. And your friend's like, that was a breeze. And you're like, Oh, I had to work really hard. Uh, for me, like learning to sing did not come naturally. I still practice singing and I've been doing it for 15, 16 years.

[00:59:19] And I still have to practice because it didn't come naturally to me. Same with academics did not come naturally to me. I really had to focus. So because things that are more difficult, because things are more difficult for me, they've required more discipline to achieve the same level of relative aptitude that somebody else could achieve normally. So I think I learned like if I want, um, if I want like my own home one day, I might have

[00:59:45] to work harder because of all of these relative disadvantages, low income family, traumatic past, all of these health issues. So I think anything I've looked at in my life, I've thought like, I'm probably going to have to work really hard for that. And I, I've actually thought earlier, earlier today, actually, that I don't think I would have the discipline that I have if I had an easy life. And while sometimes I do envy people who are like, Oh, my parents love each other. And, and, you know, I drive a Mercedes. It's like, wow, it sounds great.

[01:00:14] Um, and I get jealous of that. I also think like, man, my, the, the person that I am today is a result of like having a lot of odds stacked up against me. And anytime I start something new, I'm like, well, it's going to require a lot of discipline, just like everything else. Whereas someone who grew up, uh, in a more privileged environment, it's not their fault. I would, I wanted that too. Um, but they might not have that same callous. So like when I face something hard, I'm like, well, yeah, get in line.

[01:00:42] Everything else I've done is hard, but I do have friends who are like, Oh, it's going to be hard. Screw that. And I see how that affects them. And I would never trade with them. Bring it. Yeah. I, so two, two things. First, you're in a room with people. Dude, when I was in school, I like was waiting to get out of school so I could go to a metal show and be around people who understood me. You are in a room with people who understand you right now that I would, I would kill to

[01:01:07] go back in time and to be around people who understood that I was trying to build something and that it was difficult. You guys are so blessed to be here and to have this, to be around people who understand. So first of all, please take advantage of peers. And the second is you would be shocked at the willingness of extremely accomplished people to spend 25 minutes on a phone call with you and answer your questions.

[01:01:31] I met in my first year, I met one of the like top people at Starbucks who ran like one of their health programs. And he met with me at a Starbucks and I asked him, God bless you. I asked him so many dumb questions and he sat there and patiently answered all of them. You know what he asked for in return? Nothing. He was rich. What could I give him? It was, it truly blew my mind.

[01:02:01] And I've asked for every person like him. I've asked 99 other people who never responded. But my encouragement to you is ask because there, you'd be shocked at the patience and willingness of some of these people who have, who have seen the world to just choose to sow into the next generation of people building things. You would be mind blown at the yeses that you'll get. And some of these people, they don't have to be CEO of Starbucks. They could be people right here in your community.

[01:02:28] People in this room who would probably spend every second of 25 minutes being totally present and honest with you and direct and actually hang up the call and think she's got something like, I'm going to pray for her tonight. I want to see her succeed. Like I'm, I'm going to make a book recommendation. I'm going to make an email introduction. Like you, you more people are rooting for you than you think. Do I clap? I'm clapping for her. So thank you, Johnny.

[01:02:56] Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for being on the In Factor podcast. I always like to ask my guests on the podcast. So I want to make sure I get this on at the end. Where can our listeners find out more about you? Cope notes, anything else that you want us to know about you? Where can we find you online? Yeah. So I'm going to start with the music stuff. I just put out a new song a couple of days ago. It's called Splitting Black. It's by the band Prison. So if you like metal, listen to it. If you don't like metal, play it and then put it on mute.

[01:03:26] Our streams up. If you want to watch any of my talks, like I've given a couple of TED talks or a few online, you can go to YouTube and search Johnny Crowder or you can go to johnnycrowder.com. It's just my first and last name. If you want to try Cope Notes, you really freaking should. It's totally free to try. And then if you do decide to get a subscription, it's 10 bucks. So like, give me a break. You can go to copenotes.com. You can also get subscriptions for your friends and family. So I get that question all the time. Can I buy one for my sister? Can I buy one for my mom? The answer is yes.

[01:03:56] It's super easy to do. And then socials quickly. I use LinkedIn. I can't believe it. I have a face tattoo and I use LinkedIn. Like what happened in my life? I am on LinkedIn. So if you look up Johnny Crowder, I'll be there. There's a little brain after my name. So you know, it's me. I am on Facebook. Not as much. And then I am on Instagram at johnnycrowderlovesyou because I do. Thank you. And thank you all for coming tonight. This was a great event. Congratulations to Gabe, Julian, and everyone else.

[01:04:26] Thank you all for coming. Great job tonight. Thank you all. I want to thank Johnny Crowder for joining us today and sharing his incredible journey and insights with both our students and you, our podcast listeners. As you heard in those Q&A responses, Johnny's perspective resonates deeply with aspiring

[01:04:55] entrepreneurs. It's conversations like this that remind me why I've incorporated entrepreneur interviews into my classroom for so many years. These real world stories and candid discussions provide lessons that simply can't be taught from a textbook alone. Thank you all for listening to this special episode of the InFactor podcast. If you've enjoyed this conversation, please share it and subscribe wherever you get your

[01:05:22] podcasts, leave a review and share with others who might benefit. from these entrepreneurial stories. Until next time, keep recognizing opportunities, taking action, and building your entrepreneurial journey. I'm Rebecca White, and this is The InFactor.