Passion, Culture, and Cuisine: Rowena Scherer and eat2explore’s Recipe for Entrepreneurial Success

[00:00:02] There will be failure, but you got to learn from your failure and you got to have resilience. Because it's so important to like, don't get discouraged because that's going to happen. And so you just have to like see. And the other thing I always said, don't assume you know everything you need to ask from your customer. So hear feedback directly and from mentors and people who have done it.

[00:00:28] So I'm constantly learning, I'm constantly at awe at all these entrepreneurs who have been through things and they're so willing to teach and share. So just ask. Welcome back to the En Factor Podcast, conversations with entrepreneurs who started, stumbled, and succeeded. I'm Rebecca White, your host.

[00:00:55] And after a short break, I am thrilled to be back with fresh stories, new insights, and exciting updates. Since our last episode, life took an unexpected turn. In late September 2024, Hurricane Helene came through Tampa Bay where I live with my husband. And unfortunately, our home flooded. Just 10 days later, Hurricane Milton came through and added to the damage.

[00:01:22] Like many of my neighbors, we are embarking on rebuilding, which is a long-term project and a powerful reminder of the importance of resilience, something that all of us as entrepreneurs know something about. Even during the pause, however, like any good entrepreneur, I've been working behind the scenes on some exciting new opportunities.

[00:01:45] We have a refreshed podcast format, including En Factor Live episodes that you can look for coming soon. A new book is on the way called Choose Yourself Groups, which I hope will help you and anybody who wants to pursue any transformational new passion project or new business. Take that next step and make the steps required to make it happen.

[00:02:12] We're also creating new courses and tools that can support your entrepreneurial journey. So I'm very excited for what we have in store for the rest of 2025. And I don't want you to miss out on any of it. So I'm thrilled to invite you to join my new online community where I share personal insights, weekly mindset takeaways, behind the scenes research, conversations about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship.

[00:02:41] And I'm also sharing my own entrepreneurial journey. There is a small membership fee to help cover the costs and more importantly, to ensure our community has what I call relational integrity. That we're all showing up with the shared goal of supporting each other in our entrepreneurial pursuits. But for En Factor listeners, I am offering a free three-month trial so you can check it out and see if it's a good fit for you.

[00:03:09] Just head on over to Dr. Rebecca White. That's drrebeccawhite.com and click on community to get started. I would truly love to meet you there and learn more about your journey. Thanks again for joining me today. Let's dive into the episode. Welcome to the En Factor. I'm Rebecca White.

[00:03:35] This is the podcast where we talk to entrepreneurs and learn how they started, stumbled and succeeded. And I am so excited to have Rowena Scherer with me today. She's an entrepreneur who made the transition from Wall Street to business owner. And I met her actually in Manhattan at Bryant Park at the holiday Christmas market. And we just had a great conversation and I invited her to be on the show and I'm really excited to have her.

[00:04:05] So welcome, Rowena. Thank you, Rebecca, for having me. So nice to see you again after a few months. Yes, yes. We met in cold and I don't think it was snowy, but kind of chilly New York. Exactly. And now I'm back in Florida and you're still in New York. Getting ready to travel and do some fun things, which we'll get into. But I was so impressed with what you were doing.

[00:04:30] And I'd love to learn a little bit more about your background and share that. And, you know, your business, Eat to Explore, as you know, I found really interesting and bought this subscription package for my granddaughter. So tell us, in your words, a little bit more about this product that really brings families together to explore food and culture. Two things I love. Exactly. I think two things that a lot of people love. Yeah.

[00:05:01] So Eat to Explore is a food and cultural experiential cooking kit. And I'm trying to inspire cultural learning among families and then learn through the exploration of food. So I think, like you said, travel, food, you know, who doesn't laugh? I know. I love it. And that's one of my favorite things. But if we can be home and share this with our children, what a great experience.

[00:05:25] So for my granddaughter, I bought the German one because it had the Christmas cookies. And then I did, I bought the subscription and I'm going to actually be over there this week and spend a couple of days. And so she and I are going to, I can't remember which one she got, but I'm looking forward to it. It'll be a lot of fun. So, so Rowena, take us back.

[00:05:51] Have you been an entrepreneur since childhood or is this like your first foray? So take us back a little bit and tell us, you know, a little bit about your background and kind of how you got to where you are today. Sure. So I actually, I would say born in a small, you know, Asian Chinese family in a small town, but my whole, not me, but, you know, my, my previous generation, my parents' generation, they were all entrepreneurs.

[00:06:19] My uncle, my grandfather left China on a boat and become laborer and started the first provision store in my little town called Moore in Malaysia. So I grew up in that entrepreneurial world. But then in the society that we in, obviously my mom is like, you know, you got to study hard. So, you know, get your education, become, you know, get your accounting degree because that will give you job and to make money, which is what I did. So I got a scholarship to New Zealand.

[00:06:49] So that was my first trip out of the country. And I was the first in my family to actually go to college. So I left on the first time on a plane and never been back. I mean, I've been back, but never really live home again, like staying at home again. And sort of like that was how probably my parents' generation wants security. Like entrepreneur, it's risky, right? It's a lot of risk, a lot of hard work.

[00:07:17] And then my mom is like, you know what? You have a brain. You can live now in a world where you can, as a woman, get an education and be advanced and be out there working for big corporations, which is what I did. I ended up, you know, after graduation, got a job with JP Morgan, ended up in New York. I travel everywhere in the world where JP Morgan was in Australia, South Korea, Malaysia and Singapore and Hong Kong and sites like Geneva.

[00:07:46] The list just went on and on. And it was very comfortable, right? Like being in a corporate world is security. And you know, you can have a decent life. Right. And so why would you actually want to be an entrepreneur? A lot of work, right? A lot of work. And risk. And risk. Yeah. And huge. The biggest part is risk.

[00:08:08] And I think it's hard to explain, but it's like you're taking the risk, but you know there's a return, which is what you always want to work for. That's right. That's right. And you can claim it, right? You can claim that return. I don't know. Exactly. You can claim the return and not working for someone else. Exactly. It's true. Yeah. So it is a good feeling.

[00:08:31] You know, I just have to ask a little bit more culturally because I've taught students from all over the world for many years, you know, in my day job as an educator. And, you know, I meet students all the time who are coming back to graduate school and they say, in my culture, I either had to be a doctor, a lawyer, accountant, or an engineer, maybe a computer scientist.

[00:08:56] Because that's what my parents, even though they were entrepreneurs oftentimes, maybe out of necessity, but that's what they wanted for me. And now I'm back because, you know, who I am is really an entrepreneur and I want to do that. And so I guess, you know, I've seen a lot of that in cultures and, you know, you obviously have traveled a lot.

[00:09:26] Do you think that is the case? And is the United States, for example, kind of unique in that regard in terms of entrepreneurship is maybe more okay here? You know, I actually think so. So I always, even my husband said, I couldn't have done or started to explore in Asia. I feel that the wall is so much higher to climb and it's so much harder. Like here it's acceptable.

[00:09:54] It is sort of like, you know, you take that risk, you get the return. And the funny thing is going, and you can ask the children and they'd be like, yeah. But if you look at where my parents were, they were entrepreneur, but they see, and maybe it's just society saying you need to be a doctor and a lawyer to have stability. And they, they themselves has experienced that. So it was almost shunned upon in a different culture. Like not shunned.

[00:10:22] Like if you're, you're like an entrepreneur, you're sort of, you're not there, right? You haven't reached that. You haven't arrived. Right. Exactly. Like being a lawyer and a doctor is like you have arrived, which, which I think in the U.S. it's sort of not necessarily. And, and you, we celebrate, we do celebrate entrepreneur, which is so beautiful to see. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:45] I have a very close former student in her family that I'm close to that we visited actually last summer in Finland. And she would love to start telling more stories of entrepreneurship there because, you know, we do celebrate entrepreneurship and we do, you know, tell those stories of the entrepreneurial journey like we're doing today.

[00:11:11] And, and, and it's sort of in our DNA, but there are so many amazing stories, I think, of people that have come from other parts of the world to the U.S. to start businesses. So you spent, you spent a number of years in the corporate world and then you decided to make a transition into, you know, something that totally transformed your life. I'm sure the way you live and work and, and, and, and, and you became an entrepreneur.

[00:11:41] So how did you make that trend step? You know, what, what, what led to that? You know, along the way, if I look at my journey, I always wanted to start something. In fact, before I had children and I, I don't know how I did this, but I actually moved from, my husband got a relocation with, and he's also in banking, in finance, just to Hong Kong. And then I asked for relocation with JV Morgan to Hong Kong.

[00:12:10] And I literally was like, you know, I always have this itch to try something different. Like, can I do this? So I managed to negotiate where I worked for a year, just half the day. I do my job in half a day at JV Morgan. And then the other half, I went to Hong Kong in Kowloon and started kind of work for this designer who designed children's clothing. And I had this brilliant idea of like catalog, you know, at that time, this is like 1994.

[00:12:42] And catalog was big. And I'm like, I can bring like children's clothing on catalog and bring it to the United States. Yeah. You know, and, and I did it for almost a year to a point where Shirley, as you remember his name, her name, she's like, why don't you take over my company and just like run this? And then I have to like decide, do I really want to live in Hong Kong? My husband, you know, do I want to kind of give up my, my day job, you know, technically.

[00:13:10] And she just like, I would sell you in a heartbeat, but I don't know why you want to do this, Rowena. It's hard work. It's risky. You have a good life, you know, working for a big bank. And, and, and sort of at that moment, I was like, maybe I'm not ready. So I didn't do it. And I went back to banking and my two children and went to culinary school and then went to my business school. And I still always kind of drawn to the entrepreneurship.

[00:13:40] So what led you to culinary school? I love cooking. I grew up cooking. My, so growing up, my mom and my sisters and I will cook every Sunday for lunch. So that's how, since young, we'll like split up everyone. Someone do garlic, someone do onion, and then we'll make a meal and we sit down and eat together. Um, so I grew up loving food and cooking. So, and I always host dinner.

[00:14:08] Um, even when I was in Hong Kong and everywhere I go, I love to host dinner parties. Um, then, then before I had children, I did my EMBA at NYU sponsored by JP Morgan. After I finished my two years executive MBA, I'm like, I don't want to have children yet. I have time. I really want to learn, like to do it right. Right. Like I've been cooking like a home chef and I said, I need to learn like the real French cooking. So I went to the French counter. They have a weekend class for a year.

[00:14:37] And that's what I did. And I, I want to like learn like how to really immerse myself. But, and everybody in that class was like transition to be, to move from a different career to the culinary world. Whereas I just did it because I, I just want to learn. Um, but with no intention of being a restaurant owner or being a chef, because it's hard.

[00:15:03] It's, it's another really hard work that, that I feel that both have sailed and, and I'm not willing to go back to be as, be like a, you know, kitchen helper for a while. Yeah. Well, I, I, I totally get that. I, I love cooking too. It's one of my hobbies and I considered culinary school did not do it. So kudos to you for going that path, but I never really wanted to be in the, in a, in a restaurant kitchen, you know, working for a chef.

[00:15:33] Cause I knew that was, that was really hard work. I know. Look at the bear. Every time I watch the bear, I get so stressed. I'm like, that's the reason why I do want to go to that business. Oh yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, so you went back, you got your MBA, uh, your executive MBA, uh, great school. And great experience, I'm sure. And you got your culinary degree. And then is that when you made the transition to children? Okay.

[00:16:02] That's another journey, right? Like I, children is like another part of life that kind of wakes you up and see things differently. Oh yes. Been there, done that. Yes, exactly. I always say it's a gift. Oh yes. And so, so then I had children and of course, then I'm so immersed with like, you know, raising these two children, uh, two kids. And it was much later in life when they were nine and 11 and we traveled the world with them.

[00:16:29] They, they are very fortunate and they're very confident young adults. Now they, they, they can just go anywhere in the world by themselves and be very comfortable. And I think that's also partly due to first year upbringing, but I really think like even into explore, I want them to have that confidence to learn and learn about different world. Um, and, and, and I know they're very thankful. Um, so, so then I had children and we were actually in Thailand and I explained that in how

[00:16:57] I built this podcast that, that they look at me at this cooking class and like holding an onion. They're like, mom, what do you want me to do with this onion? And I was like, wait a minute. I knew like how to make a meal, a full meal by myself at that age. Whereas I have two children who I have been like shun, like stay away from my kitchen. I want you guys safe. I don't want to take you to the ER. Don't get caught. Don't get burned.

[00:17:22] You know, like it was literally that moment where I said, I, as a parent have failed to let them fail. Like they need to fail to then learn from their mistakes. And that's like cooking is actually one of those things that you can let them fail with your, you know, your helping around to like guide them. And, and so it's, it's like that, that confidence needs to be built and, and it doesn't just happen like immediately.

[00:17:50] So you've got to like, let them fail to build the confidence to do something. So, so that was like that trip where I said, you know what, I was like tired of bin banking already and, and, and kind of relook at what I think I could do. And I, and I, and also that was in 2017 where every meal kit was out there in like the blue apron, the HelloFresh. And, and, and I know, and I tried, and I don't like any of them. And I said, I can do better than that.

[00:18:19] I can make it like a family cooking and cultural learning and fun, fresh in ingredients. Um, so, so E2Expo started live as a meal kit. Um, but quickly I realized that it was just not going to work with fresh ingredients. Um, there is a teaching moment to like get them to go to supermarket and shop for the ingredients. And, and there's so many teaching moments that we can teach our kids and yet make it a family time.

[00:18:47] Um, so yeah, I, I came back, I went to my partner. So I'm like, I think I need a sabbatical. I need to like try this. If not, I'm going to regret for the rest of my life. And they like, you know what? Respect that. You get your six months. Um, we'll make it happen. We'll handle your account and then we'll see how it goes. And I've never been back. That, I love that story. And I love how your children helped you, helped guide you.

[00:19:16] I've learned like you, I learned so much from my children and the experiences that I have with them. And so, um, this whole product that you developed really came about because you saw, uh, what I love, you were describing, you know, actually, and I don't want to be too harsh with this, but what you were describing as, as a gap or a failure in parenting that you had not let your children fail. And of course I've done the same.

[00:19:46] I mean, we all make that, we all want to protect them from, uh, from life. Um, but we learn later that it's easier for them to have early in life failures and adjust to failure and, and, and build on that. And, and I want to get back to that because failure and resilience is, is a topic that, um, that I talk about a lot that I've had included in my book and in the work that I've done because it's inevitably a part of that journey to success.

[00:20:13] So I love the way this, that you developed this and how, um, you had traveled a lot. So you brought together your, uh, knowledge and love of culture with your, your love of food and created this product. And so, uh, and I also love that you're, you started with one thing and it, it changed because I think that happens for almost every entrepreneur. Yes. Pretty much. If you think it's going to be something, it's going to be different.

[00:20:43] If you think it's going to take a certain amount of time, it's probably going to take a lot longer. And I see you rolling your eyes for that. Uh, and if you think it's going to take a certain amount of money, it's probably going to take a lot more. So talk about, talk about how this company evolved. Um, you started it in 2017. Is that what I heard? Yes. So, so you touch on two very important things that all entrepreneur needs to know.

[00:21:08] There will be failure, but you got to learn from your failure and you got to have resilience because it's so important to like, don't get discouraged because that's going to happen. And so you just have to like, see, and the other thing that I always said, don't assume, you know, everything you need to ask from your customer. So hear feedbacks directly and from mentors and people who have done it. So I'm constantly learning.

[00:21:37] I'm constantly at all, at all these entrepreneurs who have been through things and they're so willing to teach and share. So just ask. So going back to myself, I started, and again, by listening to first of all, customers and second of all, people who have done it. Um, it kind of like make me realize why milk it doesn't work and, and what works for me.

[00:22:04] Like all my customers are like, I did beta then with friends and families and, and friends of friends and everyone's like, your recipes are so easy to make. I love the cultural part because we are lacking in that. I think you need to put more like cultural information, um, and, and make it simple. We don't like the fresh ingredients. It's so hard and you don't have the time and it go back. So, so I thought I took all that, like my 2017 was my learning moment.

[00:22:33] And then I actually went and, and, uh, enter the entrepreneur challenge at NYU because I am an alum and I came through, it's like a four months of really intense, uh, like, um, reassessing interviewing, be talking to mentor and everybody's same message. You know, love the, the idea. Cultural is amazing. Families is important. Don't, don't like the milk it part.

[00:22:56] So I pivoted in 2018 and then 2000, we launched a new current look in 2000, uh, end of 2018. So 2019 was our full year and then COVID hit. So, and when COVID hit, it was perfect timing for us where people are homeschooling and, and cooking at home and not going to restaurants. So we ended up spending a lot on like, uh, e-commerce digital marketing and got our name out there. Um, so, so, and it's, I never stopped.

[00:23:26] I'm just constantly tweaking, changing. We have 24 countries now and, and this year, and you love this because I use the, uh, Brian Park market as a survey, a platform for me to talk directly to customers. And I did, and, and everyone's like, oh, I would do this for date night. I would do it as an adult. It doesn't have to be families. So this year we're launching what I call the, the, the two options. You can either pick the kid option or the adult option.

[00:23:54] And then the adult option, our food is always adult friendly and it's like local favorites, just three recipes. And we give you the spices and condiments, which is hard to find. And now with the adult one, um, you, I said, we, we just enhanced, like you got movie suggestion, books and playlists, but the adult one will be like our cocktail recipes and mocktail recipes and wine pairing and beer pairing. So I heard, I heard that on Guy Raz. They were, they were taught.

[00:24:22] I was like, before I even speak guys, I got it. I got it. I got the solution for you. Oh, yes, I know. I just need to make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. You know, as I'm listening to you talk and maybe this is all part of the, the plan, um, you know, the idea of, of, um, of, of several couples coming together and cooking together. I think that would be fun. Sort of a party, a party box. Yeah.

[00:24:48] So there's like a, such a big thing now, social dinner club, like a social club. Yes. Yeah. Where, where even book clubs, you know, ladies come together and you're reading a book about, you know, some Ireland place and then you make a meal and you learn how to make a cocktail together. I think it's a, it's going to be a thing. And I'm really excited too. That sounds so exciting and good, good luck with all of that. I'm sure, um, you don't need luck. You, you've got a lot of experience, but I hope it goes well for you.

[00:25:18] I love the idea and I'll look forward to, to trying that too when it's, uh, when it's ready. Yeah, a lot of retired, actually it's so funny. Some, a retired, um, couple, I guess it's the, it's a husband who sent me a note and said, I saw, I heard you on the, uh, the Guy Ross podcast. And I really think retired couples, uh, uh, uh, you know, a group, a community. That needs this. So now you've heard, yeah, that's great. I love it. I love it.

[00:25:47] So I want to go back just a little bit. You said you went through Sloan's program. Um, it was that like an accelerator program? Did you have peers? Uh, and, and, uh, I know you had coaches and mentors and, uh, did you have peers also that went through that with you? So, so I'm actually now very active, um, in that program. It's the NYU Berkeley Entrepreneur Center. Um, and I can introduce you, Cynthia.

[00:26:14] So I became very active and I, and I kind of mentor people and talk to the college students as well whenever I can. Um, it's a program that actually has three tracks. They have like the, the, uh, commerce, like the tech track and then a more retail track. And I think a healthcare track.

[00:26:36] And so it, it opens up to students, to faculty members, as well as alumni, um, of, of the Stern business school, of the Stern school. Yeah. I, I'm interested because I'm a big fan of helping entrepreneurs of, uh, build these networks, whether they're formal or more informal, because you brought up the, the importance of, um, I

[00:27:03] guess the, the fact that as an entrepreneur, you don't have to know it all before you start and that, uh, in fact, you won't know it all, no matter how much you think you know. And so the importance of, of surrounding yourself with people that can, can, uh, can help you along your journey. And, uh, so I'm a big fan of, of that. I'm, I'm developing a concept of myself to help, uh, entrepreneurs understand how they can build that network.

[00:27:32] And you've done a lot of, um, it seems like you've done a lot of that and I'm sure your background, uh, in the corporate role really helped you, but I noticed that at Bryant Park, you were, um, a U S bank, uh, bank of America. I mean, bank of America, wrong bank. Sorry about that. Bank of America. Um, I knew I'd probably get that wrong. A bank of America, uh, uh, selected business. What, what does that entail? And how did you get that?

[00:28:02] Designation. So, um, you know, as I get into the world of entrepreneurial and being a minority too, and being in New York city, that's so it's sometimes overwhelming, which I told you, I'm a member of the woman national, the, the entrepreneurial women, national enterprise. Well, well, well, we bank, a wee bank. Yeah. Yes. So I'm part of we bank.

[00:28:28] I'm part of well, which is a New York city women entrepreneur loan fund. And I, and I, and I got to know Vicky, who's the founder. I'm part of W, uh, MWBC and part of Hampton, which I actually love. It's a, it's a, uh, uh, national, actually international, uh, founders community. Um, most SAS, a lot of younger is co-ed, um, founders that it's, um, that's under certain amount of revenue.

[00:28:59] Um, and then I used to be part of entrepreneurial organization, which is like the YPO, but for entrepreneur at a, at a lower minimum. So I, I constantly feel like I am a member of something and I'm constantly learning. And we, we bank, what I love was, um, they always have, they'll tell you what, um, like capital one has something going on. I was part of a capital one, um, program for a while.

[00:29:25] And then, uh, and then bank of America, I just cold call and apply because I live in New York city. I always go to Bryant park. I'm like, wait a minute, I can showcase my product here. So I just don't know who to call. So I've, I'm actually have been banking with bank of America. So I kind of like going through my channel, um, and I applied and got in. Yeah. So a lot of it's just getting out there and asking. You just have to keep asking. You just have to keep your eyes open and keep your ear, your ears pierced and like,

[00:29:54] just listen to see what's out there, um, and apply. I think. So you brought up, I think an interesting and, and, and a really important point that, uh, about networking and all of these support organizations, entrepreneurial support organizations, sometimes it gets overwhelming and you've, you're almost bombarded with, if I could say it too much advice. And do you ever find yourself in that situation?

[00:30:22] And how do you, how do you make decisions? Because, you know, you were on the guy Ross where you got to ask questions and I'm sure you've got gotten a lot of quote unquote advice, uh, from a lot of different sources. How do you, um, how do you discern, um, and make decisions about which advice to really listen to? You mentioned your customers and so how do you prioritize that advice?

[00:30:50] So, you know, it's, um, one thing I feel also as an entrepreneur, you must be willing to ask for help. Right. Like, I, and I think for me, I, I realized my biggest asset for it to explore as a company is first of all, being a visionary have like, you know, think about where else we could go in three years, five years or 10 years. And, and, and also willing to train somebody that, that you then let go certain roles. Like you, you, we can't do it all.

[00:31:18] And a lot of time, and I've done it all from like making and packing and all the way to like marketing. Uh, and now I, I like my head of COO, my head of ops runs the whole thing. I don't really run the day to day because that will free up my time to be networking and to like learn from others. So in terms of the noise, I actually just dedicate like 30 minutes in the morning, just kind of go through my mail and go to things and go through my Slack with a, you know, Hampton

[00:31:47] and just see if there's anything interesting, you know? And then, and then I will, I will make sure I do attend events that's that, that I get to meet other founders. And so going, going physically meeting people, having lunch, you just never know what ideas could, could come upon. Um, and I, and, and it's easy for me. And I always love to like, just sit in my corner with my computer and just work.

[00:32:13] But, but I find value every time I go out there and talk to people, right? Whether it's to my customers, to other entrepreneurs, to partners, um, to like participating in this like corporate events, you know, like I, the corporate capital one, we ended up now in capital one, like reward program, you know, like you just never know.

[00:32:37] So, um, my, my advice is you, you kind of have to multitask, but maybe focus. Like I now have a very organized weekly meeting with my team and then we sort of put each other, um, in charge of certain things that we need to report back next week. Yeah, that, that sounds great. And, and, um, and, and I know for a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in the early years when they don't have that team to depend on it, it's, it's very hard.

[00:33:06] But I, I, I agree with you and, and understand that there's usually something to learn if you're just paying attention and, and listening, listening probably more than talking, right? More than talking. Yeah. So let's talk about how you've built your company. You said you have a team now, uh, and I'm sure there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are facing that.

[00:33:29] Tell us about how you brought on others, uh, and, and what that looks like, uh, for you in terms of, um, you know, building out your company, because every person you bring on has the potential to add a lot of value, but it also requires a lot of your time, right? Yeah. And there's also a lot of failures, you know, to find a diamond. Um, as I can't remember which, which author, you know, I got the right bus, a right person in your, in your bus. Um, right. Yeah.

[00:33:59] So great. Yes. Good to great. Exactly. Exactly. And, uh, it's key and it takes a while to find that, that key, key individual. Um, you know, as a startup founder, I, I just, I just started with, I did everything, right? I have to do, I just, I still used to do my bookkeeping. Like I know every single money spent every single, you know, uh, ad that we put on, like

[00:34:27] you, you need to know to be able to guide someone else. So, so I have started with just freelancers because I assume if they're freelancers, they are expert in what they do. And I know my most important thing is starting with the people who can help me with my digital ads, because I'm, I don't know, I'm not a social media person and I do not like it. And so content, like content creation and ads, those were my first digital marketer.

[00:34:54] And I know that I can physically do the operations first until it grow. And then, um, then I brought on a, uh, uh, an operation assistant more on a part-time basis, but now she's, she runs the shop, you know? Like, so she grew up with me. Um, I, you'll love the story as a mom. She worked at a cafeteria near my, my, my weekend place. And, and I know the owner of the cafeteria and she's like, you know, I heard you might need some help.

[00:35:23] Tricia is amazing. She's having a baby, so she can't really work here anymore. Why don't you talk to her? So I literally have like a second floor of a, of a building and her baby was there. She raised a child, Remy, uh, who was a month old, um, and with me. So Remy's as old as he to explore. Oh, that's great. I love it. I love it. And so she just, yeah, she always be able to juggle it.

[00:35:49] And so she, she's just like running a warehouse in Monroe right now with like three team member. Yeah. And I have a head and I hired a head of marketing because I've been like, and that's always the hardest. Right. So I've tried so many and just didn't work out. And this is my third one. So far, so good. So I, uh, I know your challenges with social media.

[00:36:13] It may be that we're a little different generation, but the, um, the value of it is so important in so many ways, um, not only communicating and marketing, but also getting feedback from our customers. And so, but there, but, uh, as you point out there, uh, we don't have to do it all, um, as entrepreneurs and we find people that can and freelancing is a great place to start.

[00:36:39] And there's a huge freelance market, uh, these days and they're easier to access than ever before. Yeah. Um, you know, you found some of them, uh, uh, did you find some of them through technology? Um, you know, and, and if so, could you share a little bit about what you've learned about for somebody who might be out there thinking, I need a really good freelancer. Should I go to Fiverr? Should I go to some other online website?

[00:37:08] Uh, should I talk to people I know? What should I do? Um, I have done it all. I have done, I, I, my first freelancers was more like word of mouth people who said, oh, you should talk to this person. And, and, and as an entrepreneur, and you know, this, it's a lot of gut feel, right? You got to meet the person and you say, could I see some, you know, some way we can work together. And I always said, try it. And I will know.

[00:37:35] And I, I'm, I'm very quick to assess if it's going to work or not. And that's why I try everything. I love to try. I'm like, okay, try it. Nope. Doesn't work in like, I'll know in two to three months if it's going to work or not. Right. And a lot of time they don't work and then you just move on and find another one. I have found people at Pfeiffer. I have done Upworks. I have got word of mouth now with, um, my Hampton, um, and also I'm with e-commerce fuel community.

[00:38:03] I, I just Google like, you know, and, and ask and people always have, oh, this people, this person work. So we are, we are, I just hired a new digital marketer, hired a new, um, website designer owner. Um, so, so who knows? You gotta keep trying. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, you never know. You hit the spot and next, you know, it's like gone wild. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[00:38:29] So, so it's, it, I, it sounds like you're a lot of your philosophy is trial and error, which I think makes a lot of sense, uh, in building a company because the bottom line is we are constantly putting hypotheses out there, you know, it's like an experiment every day. And so we have to test those and see what works. And I think that's one of the things that a lot of people don't realize about entrepreneurship

[00:38:56] is that, that original business plan you wrote is probably going to change a lot. Out the door every five, five months. Um, and, and one thing is the willing to, well, you, you need to have a vision of what you want. Like you can't just depend on other people. Like you need to know when it's not right. Right. So even if I tried trial and error, I know what the ultimate goal would be.

[00:39:22] And, and you, you just will, we'll see if it works or not pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get, I get that. So a couple of other quick questions about building it. So you have a physical product and you had to, um, you have to manufacture it. So are you an entrepreneur that started in your kitchen building your own things or, and, and, and how do you manufacture today? Okay.

[00:39:51] So, uh, I still have a photo, um, of my husband's like, you need to capture this. Um, I was like packing it in my kitchen and of course, you know, that doesn't last. It's just impossible to grow. Um, when I hired Tricia, we were on the second floor and we had moved to three. This is going to be our fourth location. Um, and we just grew each time. And now we finally found our current one built from grounds, grown up, our landlord basically, um, built it for us.

[00:40:20] So it's exactly what we will need. We have the infrastructure. We have the, the supplier. We have created relationships that will take us to the next level without any issues. So, so, so you, uh, do you, do you, uh, physically, uh, does, do you or your, your, uh, operations folks physically go out and collect the spices and, and herbs and special sauce? Yes. So, yeah.

[00:40:49] So all our spices actually comes from a supplier that actually supply to McCormick. So they are wholesale suppliers. So, and then I have a co-packer in, uh, Elmira, New York that actually packed them into our packets. And then more and more, I like to curate and find it from the country. So like our Asian, uh, our Japan box is all from Japan. Like I found this supplier that makes a nori that that's actually cultivated, um, from,

[00:41:18] um, and with the wasabi that was cultivated from the stream water of Mount Fuji. So there's like lots of story to tell and the cuts of sauce and everything that comes from Japan itself. And the same thing with South Korea, our Thai box, everything's from Thailand. Um, so, so, so more and more as we grow and we're able to have more a bargaining power and people love everybody in the world, love America. And they really believe in like, you know, showcasing it here.

[00:41:48] So most of them want to partner with us. And like, even if we're small, they're like, you know, we'll, we'll work with you. Yeah, I, I absolutely love that because I think that really adds, um, uh, an element to what you do that is so powerful working with those local entrepreneurs and especially, uh, giving them some access to a broader market. I think it's, you know, it's, it's really remarkable because we, we often start these

[00:42:17] companies and before we know it, we're making transformations in the lives of other people. That's right. And that's very rewarding. It is very rewarding. And you kind of help both ways, right? You're, you're educating people and yet you're also creating opportunity. And, and we live in a world now where it is a very small world, you know, if we think about it, right. And I always feel like children are the most important focus for us because they are the

[00:42:46] next, our future leaders, right? They need to be more globally aware than, than their parents, you know? And, and, and it's, it's amazing how many people in the United States who still have not have a passport to, to go and travel. Right. And, and that's like very basic to me. It's not expensive. It's not, it's not scary. Like they are all the same.

[00:43:10] And so to like make them aware that, you know, people in Thailand is just like us, they, they, they, they still sleep, they still eat. They, you know, it's not scary. It's not dangerous if you are aware and your confidence, you know? Yeah. And I love that. I love that focus on children. And I also, I just keep, what keeps coming to mind for me as well is the opportunity to

[00:43:35] make this an experience for seniors or others who can't travel anymore, but maybe traveled and miss that. And, and even, even individuals that for whatever reason are unable to, to leave their homes very frequently, you know, they have an opportunity to experience the world. So I love it. You know, you've built a, a remarkable business and I know it's going even further.

[00:44:03] Um, you know, and I'm excited to see where it goes. When I talk to people, like I asked my students, for example, the other night in graduate school, what's holding you back? They, time is one issue. So you left your corporate job and you were in a great position to be able to do that. Um, another is knowledge, don't know what to do. And, and you obviously overcame that by asking and getting out there and networking.

[00:44:32] The third thing that comes up, which is no surprise probably is money. And so, uh, you know, how did you position yourself and, and how did you, um, get the funds to do what you're, you've done and, and more importantly, as you're scaling it? So I'm still technically self-funding it. I, and my husband and I consciously aware, like make a conscious decision that we're going to keep funding this because getting money from VC.

[00:45:02] And I came from that world. Like I, I know, like I used to work at the, you know, with the KKR and the color, like I know what they're looking for. And I know the challenges as an entrepreneur who gave up so much equity, right. And you're working your app. You, you're literally working so hard for someone else. Right. And what you're making is going to someone else. So it's, it's almost like I'm like trying to become the olden days entrepreneur where you funded yourself.

[00:45:31] You just worked so hard to be profitable and then have your profit keep feeding into the business to just grow it organically. Um, so we have made a conscious, conscious decision since day one. And maybe I'm also lazy. I know the effort required to, to like talk to VC and not focus on the business. Um, that's a loan, like fundraising alone. It's a business and it's, it's, it takes up so much of your time.

[00:46:00] Um, and I'm, I just, I wasn't willing to do that. So, so I am still, you know, yeah, it's, it's hard. Funding is hard. I'm constantly, you know, struggling and, and we just have to like keep organically growing and just feeding into the business. Um, I have a bit of a, you know, friends and family around and that was it. Um, but that, that I think what kills a lot of businesses because there's no access, you

[00:46:28] know, ideas are many execution is hard and you, you need funding to execute. Um, so, so I feel like of the three you said that is by far the hardest. Yeah. And what, yeah, especially when you, when you scale, uh, because you know, we, we have with technology, a lot of businesses can be started and, and, and built organically stay kind of small, but when you want to scale, um, it does require money.

[00:46:57] I used to give a presentation, um, that I entitled entrepreneurs are from Venus, uh, investors are from Mars, uh, kind of playing on that old John Gray book, you know, about men and women. And I think that's probably one of the other challenges I've seen is that entrepreneurs really want to focus on that business and building it. And they have to keep in mind that investors are there to make money.

[00:47:24] So they have to constantly be focused on the agendas of their investors. And that feels hard sometimes. And grow, grow. You need money in order to grow. You have to need money. Like I built a operations that can support like four times my current sales, but you got to be there. Right. Then you can't really proceed to like go after sales if you can't support it. So it's like a chicken and eggs.

[00:47:51] And I, and I, and I struggle as well. Uh, but I'm lucky enough to have a very supportive husband who like, you know, for me, what else are we spending on our kids in college? And I don't need more. And we're like, you know, this is my third baby and he's very supportive. And so we, we are making it happen. I remember I met him at the market and he was so positive and so encouraging.

[00:48:18] And, um, that's, that's wonderful and great to see, you know, I, I love this conversation. We have got, we've been able to talk about so many things and, um, and I know you've got a lot going on. You're getting ready to travel to, to Asia, right? And so I know some of that's family. Um, but do you still travel some for your, uh, inspiration for your food boxes? And are you always adding new boxes?

[00:48:47] I know you've, you've got plans for some different markets, but are you always adding new ideas and locations? Yeah. So we used to add two countries a year. Uh, we now have 24 countries. So I'm adding, um, so this year I'm adding one country, maybe two at the end of the year if I'm lucky, but we're adding Ireland and for St. Patrick's day, which we're going to soft launch the, um, the, uh, the adult version.

[00:49:16] And I, and I want to show my little Mundo. Oh, so cute. I've been taking him on a tour with me last year. I traveled to 10 countries. Um, and every year I just inspired by different places. Um, so yeah, travel is always part of my agenda and I work and it doesn't matter where I go. You know, I just need my laptop. I'll be working anyway, but you kind of travel to see what's out there. It's constantly changing. Um, I'm going to see my mom in Malaysia.

[00:49:47] I'm going to see my sister in Singapore. I'm actually going to Maldives, uh, which is totally different. Um, I want to be there before it disappeared. The, the whole, a lot of the islands are sinking. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it inspires me. So I would love to. I think that, yeah, there is so much to think about, you know, and, and if you go to a country like, you know, I'll just pick Italy, there are regions too that are so different.

[00:50:11] So you can have multiple boxes and you can almost even, uh, do something in the United States state by state, if you ever wanted to. Yeah. We used to have North USA and South USA. USA is harder for the Americans. They're like, well, we live here. Yeah. It's not as expensive. But the truth is there's still so much even Americans haven't learned, you know? Yeah. I feel like we need to even explore our own country to, to appreciate what we have in the

[00:50:40] cuisine, the culture, the history. So I'm a history buff. I love history. And so it's, it's like, yeah, we, we should, we should do that. So we'll see. Yeah. I, well, I love it too, because I feel like without things like this, sometimes we start to become vanilla. Everybody is, you know, we lose a lot of that, uh, that culture, but food hopefully will stay with us. Uh, we all love to eat, I think. And most of us do. Yeah.

[00:51:08] And it's, it's an excellent way to explore culture and, and, uh, there's just so much there. I love it. I love it. You know, Rowena, this has been a fabulous conversation. I have enjoyed it. Uh, I know we could talk on and we'll have to, we'll have to do it again, but, um, I know you have a lot going on, you're moving and you're traveling some. So before we, uh, in this episode, I, uh, I did want to ask you my, my question that I ask all my entrepreneurs.

[00:51:36] If you had one piece of advice, uh, for someone who wants to start their own business or something that you wish you had known, uh, before you started, what would that one piece of advice be? I know you've already given us a lot of great advice, but I don't know. I'm like, listen to your customers. You know, I think the most I feel is listen and be willing to change.

[00:52:01] And I, and you know, I've pivoted and I've pivoted many times, but true to your mission. So every time I change, I'm true to my mission, right? It has not really changed. The mission is still how do we inspire global awareness through food. But, but, but you know, how you get there could change. Um, and, and, and even technology is changing every day. Like even the, the ad, you know, the, the marketing channel is changing.

[00:52:30] So I have like seen it all and it's, it's constantly. So, so that's a struggle. It's like, what platform do you take that? And you can't really rely on everything like single one. Like you've got to be fluid, able to move with, which, how, how things are changing. Yeah. That's great advice. It's, it, it takes a full, full, uh, full stack for your, uh, technology these days, right?

[00:52:57] You have to have a lot of different technology solutions and we didn't even get into that. So we'll have to have you back. Yes, I have lots of advice. Yeah. I think we could have another great conversation, but it's been wonderful. Yeah. It's been wonderful to have you on the show today, Rowena. And I wish you well. And, uh, I'm looking forward. I'm going to get that, uh, adult version for my husband and myself soon. So I look forward to that. And so, and I hope, uh, where can our listeners buy these?

[00:53:27] Um, you know, give us a little bit of, uh, an idea. Okay. So you can get our boxes at our website is eat number two, explore.com. We're also on Amazon eat same thing. Search eat to explore. There'll be multiple options. I also now have a YouTube live channel, a cooking show every third Wednesday of the month. You can check us out at, uh, eat to explore YouTube. Um, I also have a cookbook.

[00:53:55] Um, in fact, I just saw over the week, we were on the window display of New York public library, which was actually kind of fun. Nice. I know. Um, so I think we'll, we're at Barnes and Noble, warm market, kind of everywhere. So soon, hopefully we'll be in retail stores. Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I wish you well with everything and really appreciate your sharing your wisdom and your entrepreneurial journey today on the impactor. Thank you, Rowena. Thanks for having me, Rebecca.

[00:54:27] Okay. Okay. We'll take a little break. I just got a couple of, a couple of other really quick questions. So, um, when you, when you think about, let, let's, uh, let's talk a little bit about, um, the, the, what was sort of missing when you wanted to start your business and make that transition? What were the big gaps? What, what was not available to you out there?

[00:54:52] Um, that you, you, you know, you, you made that transition from wall street to entrepreneur. What, what was missing that would have really helped you in the earliest stages of making that transition? Are we recording now? Yeah. Okay. Um, I think what's missing is I don't have that community. So I brought up, I I've been in the corporate world. My friends are all in either banking or lawyers. Like I don't have that access.

[00:55:22] So, and, and it's, it's not like I came out of school and everybody is, you know, want to be entrepreneur. And so you have that community. I came out of college, you know, go straight into the corporate world and the French that I develop over time in the corporate world. And so I think that was what's missing for me is I, I literally have an idea and I have to go just trial and error and get, you know, like even my mommy friends, right?

[00:55:51] They are all in the corporate world, which is kind of strange, but all they're not working. And so it's a lot of, um, stay at home mom. Um, so it was hard. I, that was the hardest thing. It's like, where do I start? I have this idea. Let's just try it. You know? So I did. Yeah. Then I then immersed into this whole new community of, of entrepreneur.

[00:56:16] And so in, in some ways you just, you kind of took that step on, on faith and, and, uh, you know, some people call it serendipity, but I kind of call it paying attention when we start, when we have an intention and we start paying attention, um, you know, people that we need will show up in our lives a lot of times. So, yeah, I agree. Yeah. I think if you have the intention and it's like people attract people, right?

[00:56:45] Like you, if you are in that same zip code, people just attract to you kind of. So now as an, as a highly accomplished woman making that transition, what I am, but well, absolutely. But even, you know, what, uh, what were some of the, were there any challenges that were unique to you, uh, as a woman in that, you know, making that, uh, you know, sort of

[00:57:11] transforming yourself from corporate Rowena to entrepreneur Rowena? You know, I think one thing I always, uh, do not see myself is it's like gender or color. I just like, you know what, work hard and you, you get there, stop complaining. And, and, and frankly, I was, I feel very fortunate to be a woman founders because there's so many helpers out there that want to focus on woman founders.

[00:57:38] So I just take advantage of it, but I just never see anything hindering me from just speak up or go to like the boys founders club. Like I'll be one of the few. And I always been, even at my MBA classes, like I'm always the single woman that's hanging out with all those guys and I'm like, it's fine. And so, and if you don't think of it as I'm different, everyone just wants to do the same thing.

[00:58:07] You know, like they just want to be successful. Everyone have the same goal. And so I never really thought of it as a hindrance. I just think of it as an opportunity actually. Yeah. It's a mindset, isn't it? It's an opportunity mindset and let go of anything that, that might be standing in your way that, that, uh, that's not allowing you to choose yourself, right? Choose yourself and move forward.

[00:58:35] And yeah, that's great. That's great. Well, Rowena, thank you. I promised you I'd get you off by 11 and I think we're on 11, but I'm excited. We'll have probably some clips and do some promos on social media. I'll, um, of course tag you on all of that. And, um, you know, we'll tag it on ours too. So yeah. And, and if you, if you don't mind, maybe just take one quick second and say something about being on the show.

[00:59:04] If you enjoyed it or look, you know, share it or anything like that. And, and we can also clip that if you want to. Yeah. I, I actually, one of my goals this year is to be on more podcasts. It's like sharing my story because I do, I do have a story to share. And then also telling people about the importance of like learning about different culture and be more aware of different culture, um, and, and, and learning a life skill. Like food is such an important thing.

[00:59:31] So, um, I, I'm hoping to be more podcast. So if you know of any podcaster looking for guest speakers, let me know. Um, and not just, um, being an entrepreneur, but like, you know, learn about food and education. We are big with homeschool communities on how you use food and culinary art to learn about geography and music and language and art of different countries. Right. It just makes it fun to learn, learn history rather than just reading off a book was this

[01:00:00] way you can listen to music and do an art project. You can, you know, make a meal and then learn about all the ingredients and all the nutrients about it and actually healthy eating too. I mean, we, we no longer have a home economics, like this is home economics, you know? Um, so, so I, I want to just be more present and me be speaking to everybody, um, and just preach my, my mission. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you, Rowena.

[01:00:29] It's been fun and, uh, we'll be in touch. I'm sure. Yes. Safe travels. Thank you. Bye. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to learn more about entrepreneurship, we would love it if you hit that subscribe button. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of InFactor.