Shattering Limits: Building Businesses with Legal Insight with Scott Reib

[00:00:00] I've been doing this 27 years and started out litigating and litigated lots of different

[00:00:08] kinds of things and really kind of found until I got to the smaller business stuff, I didn't

[00:00:14] feel like I was helping anyone.

[00:00:16] And I was just cranking out hours that someone was willing to pay and it just wasn't satisfying.

[00:00:24] And so as I started working with small business owners that became more fun.

[00:00:27] I could see where I was really making a difference.

[00:00:30] And then in 2012, we decided to flip the system on its head and provide a better way for small

[00:00:37] business owners to access legal information and services.

[00:00:40] And that was a game changer.

[00:00:47] Welcome to the En Factor, conversations with entrepreneurs who started, stumbled and succeeded.

[00:00:53] I'm Rebecca White and my guest today is Scott Reeb.

[00:00:57] Scott is known as America's legal coach.

[00:01:01] He founded Reeb Law and he's been practicing law for some time, but decided a few years

[00:01:09] back to figure out a way to help entrepreneurs and small business owners navigate the confusing

[00:01:16] legal system and reduce their risk, which is something entrepreneurs are always trying

[00:01:21] to do.

[00:01:22] So I'm really excited today to have Scott joining us and looking forward to learning

[00:01:27] all about your background as an attorney and as an entrepreneur.

[00:01:31] Scott, thank you for joining me.

[00:01:33] Oh, thanks for having me.

[00:01:34] I've been looking forward to it.

[00:01:36] Yeah.

[00:01:37] Well, so I'm very excited to learn more.

[00:01:42] As I mentioned, entrepreneurs are always looking to minimize risk and that's a big part of

[00:01:47] your job as an attorney for entrepreneurs.

[00:01:50] So tell us a little bit about what you do for entrepreneurs.

[00:01:55] I know you're known as America's legal coach and you also developed something, a couple

[00:02:02] of businesses and next level legal coaching.

[00:02:10] And so tell us a little bit about what you do and then we'll back up and find out

[00:02:14] how you got into this space.

[00:02:17] Yeah, so we help entrepreneurs grow, scale and protect their businesses.

[00:02:22] And we do some of that through our law firm, Reblaw, some of it through next level legal

[00:02:26] and shatterproof solutions.

[00:02:28] But the goal is for business owners to have businesses that will last and build

[00:02:33] legacies not just businesses.

[00:02:35] And so to do that, you mentioned we have to cover risk.

[00:02:39] We have to build smart businesses that are built on systems and not people and

[00:02:43] that have the right legal structures in place and that have the right leadership

[00:02:47] strategies in place.

[00:02:48] And so we do all that with the different companies we do, with the book and with

[00:02:51] the podcast.

[00:02:53] And it's just a whole lot of fun to work with entrepreneurs as they build their

[00:02:56] dreams.

[00:02:57] Yeah, well, I know my husband actually is an attorney and I know he's done a

[00:03:04] number of different types of work in the legal field.

[00:03:09] But he found as well that working with entrepreneurs and early stage companies

[00:03:14] and helping business founders was a lot more fun than some of the other things

[00:03:19] that he experienced as an attorney.

[00:03:22] That is for sure.

[00:03:23] I've been doing this 27 years and started out litigating and litigated lots

[00:03:28] of different kinds of things and really kind of found until I got to smaller

[00:03:34] business stuff, I didn't feel like I was helping anyone and I was just cranking

[00:03:39] out hours that someone was willing to pay.

[00:03:42] And it just wasn't satisfying.

[00:03:45] And so as I started working with small business owners, that became more fun.

[00:03:48] I could see where I was really making a difference.

[00:03:51] And then in 2012, we decided to flip the system on its head and provide a

[00:03:56] better way for small business owners to access legal information and services.

[00:04:01] And that was a game changer.

[00:04:03] Yeah.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:04] Well, I definitely want to get into that.

[00:04:06] But before we do, I'd like to dig in a little bit more to your background

[00:04:11] because you're an entrepreneur as well as an attorney.

[00:04:14] And that is actually, I don't know how common that is, but I do know

[00:04:20] that a lot of attorneys have their own legal practice and many probably

[00:04:25] struggle with the business side and the strategy side of being in the

[00:04:31] legal business, so to speak.

[00:04:34] So tell us a little bit about your background.

[00:04:36] I think you went to Oklahoma for law school.

[00:04:38] Is that right?

[00:04:39] So what brought you to this profession and did you think that you wanted

[00:04:47] to be an entrepreneur or was it all about being an attorney all your life?

[00:04:52] Yeah, no, that's a great question.

[00:04:54] I was interested in being an attorney early on.

[00:04:56] I can remember in junior high having career day and the local lawyer

[00:05:00] coming in and it was a big deal.

[00:05:01] And I thought, well, that would be nice.

[00:05:03] And so I talked about that some, and then as I got into college

[00:05:06] and working on my business degree, I really fell in love with marketing

[00:05:10] and wanted to be an ad exec.

[00:05:12] And that was my goal.

[00:05:14] So I got my degree, got out in 91 and there were really not any jobs.

[00:05:20] The economy was pretty bad.

[00:05:22] And yes, you look for marketing jobs and they were sales jobs.

[00:05:26] They wanted you to sell copiers, phones, insurance, everything,

[00:05:30] except for actually do marketing.

[00:05:33] So I was newly married and you had to take what I could get.

[00:05:37] And so I tried to sell insurance and that wasn't my thing.

[00:05:40] I ended up selling phones, systems and aftermarket systems for a major

[00:05:44] telecom carrier in Tulsa and had a really nice gig.

[00:05:51] I was my own boss.

[00:05:52] I had a contract, the contract agent and was doing really well and had

[00:05:58] figured out a way to make some mailbox money in their systems.

[00:06:01] And they came along and said, Hey, we love what you're doing, but we're

[00:06:04] going to take that and give it to a minimum wage person.

[00:06:06] And suddenly that was gone.

[00:06:08] And so I went to a friend of my parents who was a lawyer and he was

[00:06:12] graciously talked to me and, and explained to me how I was probably

[00:06:16] right, but I couldn't afford to litigate and I decided that I didn't

[00:06:19] want to be in that position anymore.

[00:06:21] So I like to say, I did what any normal person would do.

[00:06:23] I went to law school and I realized that not quite normal, but I had a

[00:06:29] brother-in-law that was just finishing law school and I'm like, well, if

[00:06:32] he can do it, I can do it.

[00:06:34] And he, he'd told me how he paid for it.

[00:06:36] And I was fortunate enough that my parents paid for my undergrad.

[00:06:38] So I hadn't experienced the student loans and all that stuff.

[00:06:42] And so my wife and I figured it out.

[00:06:44] And so off to Norman, Oklahoma, we went in the fall of 93 and I

[00:06:48] started law school and really had probably the best, probably the best

[00:06:51] three years of our lives.

[00:06:52] Really law school was pretty great.

[00:06:54] Anyone that's if you've, if you've worked and gone back to school, you

[00:06:57] understand how great school is, uh, as compared to work.

[00:07:00] And so we went and did that and I became a lawyer and then had to kind

[00:07:05] of work my way through being a lawyer to like you, we talked earlier

[00:07:07] about finding what really fit and what lit me up and, uh, for the last

[00:07:12] decade, I've been able to focus on that.

[00:07:15] Yeah.

[00:07:16] So such a great story.

[00:07:18] And interestingly, I had some of those same experiences.

[00:07:22] Um, the first jobs I remember that I had were a lot of them in sales and

[00:07:27] it's great experience, uh, to get those jobs.

[00:07:31] And I encourage students, uh, that I work with to go ahead and take sales

[00:07:35] jobs, but maybe not where you want to stay forever.

[00:07:37] Some people do, but, um, it, it's not, it wasn't what I wanted either.

[00:07:42] And I sort of did the same thing.

[00:07:43] I had a, I had a problem, not a problem, but a challenge at work.

[00:07:47] Let me put it that way.

[00:07:48] Visited with an attorney and I ended up going back to graduate school

[00:07:52] for my masters and then PhD.

[00:07:54] So, um, you know, sometimes life hands us those things for a reason, right?

[00:07:59] And, um, definitely.

[00:08:00] And, and sometimes in a bad economy, the best thing to do is go retool,

[00:08:04] uh, make yourself better or more valuable to the marketplace, and then

[00:08:08] wait for that opportunity to come up.

[00:08:10] And it worked out for, for both of us.

[00:08:13] And I've got, I've got two boys now one's, uh, just finishing up a

[00:08:18] master's in accounting and has found that's opened up a lot of doors for him.

[00:08:22] Uh, so I, I, I'm a big proponent of education if you have a goal and

[00:08:27] a way to use it to make money for sure.

[00:08:29] Yeah.

[00:08:30] Yeah.

[00:08:30] And like you, I always thought, well, if I don't know what to do,

[00:08:34] education is a good, good placeholder, at least for the

[00:08:37] while it'll get me somewhere better.

[00:08:39] So, um, and, uh, you know, at the end you came out with a law degree and,

[00:08:45] uh, began to practice law, which is great.

[00:08:47] And, uh, you know, uh, have had a fantastic career, it sounds like.

[00:08:53] So let's talk a little bit about that whole piece of opportunity

[00:08:57] recognition, because I'm always digging in with entrepreneurs to try

[00:09:01] to find out how they connected the dots to find that opportunity.

[00:09:05] And of course you mentioned that this was the thing that excited you.

[00:09:08] I think you used the term lit you up.

[00:09:11] And so what, um, you know, what were some of the signs, like, what

[00:09:15] were you hearing from clients?

[00:09:18] And, and, you know, were there any pivotal moments in terms of what

[00:09:22] you were doing that you can look back at and say, yeah, that's

[00:09:25] when I knew that really having this focus was going to be some

[00:09:31] place I could make a difference.

[00:09:34] Yeah.

[00:09:34] In 2011, 2012, I started having a, a kind of a weird problem.

[00:09:40] It, it was good for me.

[00:09:42] I was having repeat business and the problem was I shouldn't have been.

[00:09:48] They were making mistakes that were easily avoided.

[00:09:51] And I kind of felt bad about it because they'd come in with

[00:09:54] their, their proverbial house on fire.

[00:09:56] We'd fix it for a hundred thousand dollars later, and they would not be

[00:10:00] super happy about how much it costs or excited about the outcome because they

[00:10:05] didn't ever want to be there in the first place and it all could have been

[00:10:08] avoided usually with a phone call or a document review, uh, and they,

[00:10:13] rather than spend the money, they would just flip a coin.

[00:10:17] They do anything, uh, but call me.

[00:10:20] And so I kind of thought back to the start of my law firm in

[00:10:23] oh five, I was, I was a solo with one, uh, assistant and we're

[00:10:28] in this executive suite with other entrepreneurs and we'd sit around and

[00:10:31] drink coffee and they'd ask me questions.

[00:10:33] And they would joke about that.

[00:10:35] This is the only way they could get legal advice because they couldn't

[00:10:36] afford me and it was true.

[00:10:38] I couldn't afford me.

[00:10:39] Uh, so I kind of look as I looked back at that and I thought, you

[00:10:44] know, there's a real problem.

[00:10:46] They, they don't think they can afford me and they need me.

[00:10:48] And then the way we're charging clients is a disincentive for them to

[00:10:53] come back for more help because we're charging by the hour.

[00:10:57] So they see money flying out of their pocket every time they think of my name.

[00:11:01] So they avoided me.

[00:11:02] Uh, I really had to do kind of a deep dive.

[00:11:04] Was it, you know, was it my personality?

[00:11:06] Was I doing something wrong to make them not want to spend time with me?

[00:11:10] And fortunately it wasn't me.

[00:11:11] It was the system.

[00:11:12] And so I hired a business coach with a vision of building an on-demand

[00:11:17] system so the small business owners could avoid those mistakes, treat law

[00:11:21] like primary care rather than emergency room.

[00:11:23] And it's, uh, it's, it's, it's really changed the way I live my life and

[00:11:30] the way we practice here and interact with, uh, with our clients.

[00:11:34] I consider myself, I'm a lawyer, but I'm much more of a coach than a lawyer

[00:11:39] because I don't want you to have the answer.

[00:11:41] I want you to understand how we get to the answer, how to ask better

[00:11:44] questions so that you can make better decisions as you're building your business.

[00:11:48] Oh, that really makes a lot of sense.

[00:11:50] And I like your analogy to the, to healthcare profession, right?

[00:11:54] That you want to keep, you want to keep your patients or your clients in your

[00:11:57] case out of the emergency room.

[00:11:59] And I can see how that happens because, you know, as some, you know,

[00:12:03] being familiar with how the, how the legal system works with my husband,

[00:12:08] you know, every 15 minutes you're being, you're,

[00:12:10] you have to charge somebody.

[00:12:11] Right.

[00:12:12] So, um, it's not much fun to work that way either for the attorney

[00:12:16] because it really kind of forces you into a box a lot of times, right?

[00:12:21] Yeah.

[00:12:21] It's a box and you, you, if you go on vacation, you fall behind on your

[00:12:25] billable hours and so then you're thinking about that the whole time

[00:12:28] you're on vacation, you're always in the back of your mind thinking

[00:12:32] about that I spend more time than I should have on this project.

[00:12:35] And so you just, you're just, there's this internal conflict

[00:12:38] and then you have to actually bill.

[00:12:40] Kind of a funny story is that the first 90 days of my practice, I was

[00:12:44] very fortunate that we, we opened the doors and we had business because a

[00:12:48] bunch of people followed me from my old firm.

[00:12:50] And so we were busy and three months in someone mentioned to me that,

[00:12:55] Hey, your cash reserves are getting a little low.

[00:12:56] You might want to build some clients.

[00:12:58] I hadn't built my clients in three months.

[00:13:01] I didn't even have any billing software.

[00:13:03] So we'd kept track of our time, but we hadn't billed anybody.

[00:13:06] So then I had to work about 24 hours straight to create the bills,

[00:13:10] to get the bills out.

[00:13:11] And then I found for the next eight to 10 years that we were spending a

[00:13:15] couple of days every month, just billing the clients in order to collect the

[00:13:20] money, well, to get the bills out and then hope that you can collect the

[00:13:23] money because sometimes you would send out, she wouldn't it's a, yeah,

[00:13:27] yeah, it was no fun.

[00:13:28] And so,

[00:13:29] yeah.

[00:13:29] And that it's really, it's, yeah, I'm sorry.

[00:13:32] It's really interesting that this approach, because what I think I heard

[00:13:38] you say in the very beginning, when we started talking about it is that

[00:13:42] that people would avoid that 15 minute or 30 minute fee, but in the end

[00:13:48] they'd pay a lot more and it was creating extra work for you.

[00:13:53] So you were able to pull all of this together and you basically,

[00:13:59] you know, as I understand you eliminated hourly fees, which is

[00:14:04] highly unusual except in certain areas of law practice.

[00:14:08] And so how does it work?

[00:14:10] How do you, how do you charge clients and, and, and how do you

[00:14:14] work differently with your clients?

[00:14:17] Yeah.

[00:14:17] So we have a subscription called the access plan until it's a legal

[00:14:21] consulting subscription.

[00:14:22] And so you get a certain set services per year level.

[00:14:26] We have four different levels that go with the different stages of

[00:14:28] business and you, you kind of, we kind of figure out where you are

[00:14:32] together.

[00:14:33] And then once you say, yeah, that's a good fit, then you sign up and

[00:14:36] there's a signup fee and then a monthly fee.

[00:14:38] So, you know exactly what you're paying every month.

[00:14:41] And it starts at 4.25 a month so that, you know, Hey, I've got the

[00:14:45] legal coverage I need.

[00:14:46] So I have peace of mind that I'm making good decisions.

[00:14:49] Your contracts that you're using with your customers are solid.

[00:14:52] You have someone to ask questions to on demand and we've built your

[00:14:55] legal structure upfront so that you know that you have a solid

[00:14:59] foundation for your business.

[00:15:01] And then we just start walking with you as you grow your business.

[00:15:05] And we do a monthly calls.

[00:15:06] So we have a coaching call where it's, Hey, what do you end up to?

[00:15:09] What's coming up and our, my job and our team's job on those calls is to

[00:15:13] find things that we would need to do to support you that are included in

[00:15:17] your plan.

[00:15:19] We're not looking for extra work.

[00:15:20] We're looking for work that you need done now that's included.

[00:15:24] There are other lawyers doing similar things, but most of them are building

[00:15:27] them on what I call the gym model where we want you to sign up and then hope

[00:15:31] you never use it because we can't really fit enough people in the gym.

[00:15:34] If everyone showed up, we want you to use it.

[00:15:37] We have meetings talking about people that haven't been using the plan.

[00:15:40] How do we get them re-engaged?

[00:15:42] Let's talk to them.

[00:15:42] Let's keep them going because we don't do them any good.

[00:15:45] If they're not talking to us, we're a resource and a trusted

[00:15:50] advisor if they'll, if they'll bring us in and most people do, but some

[00:15:55] people are comfortable with just paying us the month, monthly feed, knowing

[00:15:57] where we're here if they need us.

[00:15:59] And that's okay too.

[00:16:01] Yeah.

[00:16:02] Now, you know, uh, attorneys have worked for a long time,

[00:16:07] many attorneys on retainers.

[00:16:09] Is this similar to that or you know what, what's the fundamental

[00:16:12] difference in what you do?

[00:16:15] It's similar.

[00:16:16] The retainer usually doesn't cover any real work.

[00:16:19] It just says that we'll take your calls when you, when you need us

[00:16:22] and that you've locked us in.

[00:16:24] And so we're your lawyers.

[00:16:25] We can't take other paces that would be in conflict with you.

[00:16:28] We're, you know, we're, we're, we're stuck together.

[00:16:31] Then with the subscription model, there's certain things built into the plan

[00:16:34] that you don't have to, you aren't that you haven't not to pay again for.

[00:16:38] Some people will charge for a block of hours.

[00:16:41] We don't do that.

[00:16:42] It's just all about what's it, which in your level, and then if you need

[00:16:45] something outside your level, we give you a flat fee quote, uh, for how much

[00:16:49] that will cost.

[00:16:50] Uh, if you're an access member, it's obviously a discount off of what

[00:16:52] someone else would pay.

[00:16:54] And then we perform the work.

[00:16:55] If we, if our estimates incorrect and it takes us more work to do it

[00:17:00] than it should have that's on us.

[00:17:02] Now every other business owner has to figure out what it cost to deliver

[00:17:05] their services and lawyers have been exempt for that for years.

[00:17:08] And we know we're not.

[00:17:09] And we, I definitely sometimes lose money because I underbid a project

[00:17:13] and that's okay.

[00:17:14] I learned from it and we do it different next time.

[00:17:18] So I pay a subscription fee.

[00:17:20] And so what that implies is that they are different levels of, of, and

[00:17:25] each, each different, different types of subscription.

[00:17:28] Is that correct?

[00:17:29] And then there would be, um, there would be different items included in that.

[00:17:35] It's correct.

[00:17:36] Yeah.

[00:17:36] You go from launch all the way up to guardian at guardian.

[00:17:39] We're talking about estate planning.

[00:17:40] We're talking about legacy building, you know, buy sell agreements.

[00:17:44] How do we make sure this thing passes on to someone else?

[00:17:46] And if something happens to one of us, what, what did the part, what

[00:17:49] happens to the partners?

[00:17:51] And we talk about all that stuff.

[00:17:52] And so it starts getting complicated at the front end at launch.

[00:17:55] It's just like, let's get you, let's get you going.

[00:17:57] Let's get you over your first quarter million in revenue.

[00:18:00] And then we can start adding, adding the bells and whistles that you

[00:18:03] need as you're, as you're starting to scale.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:06] Yeah.

[00:18:07] So, um, you know, one of the, one of the important things to remember,

[00:18:12] um, and that I talked to entrepreneurs about is that they need to make sure

[00:18:16] that their attorney doesn't have to educate himself or herself on your dime.

[00:18:22] So you want to go with somebody who understands how to do what you need.

[00:18:26] Does your law firm do the full array of, you know, everything from legal

[00:18:31] entity formation to, you know, tax specifics, you know, working with

[00:18:36] my accountant, let's say to estate planning, you mentioned, do you also

[00:18:40] do things like intellectual property and contracts and, um, so do you,

[00:18:45] do you have the full gamut there at your firm?

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:48] We, we don't do anything tax, any tax planning.

[00:18:51] I only play a tax lawyer on TV and can't do that stuff, but we do work,

[00:18:56] but we require our clients to have a tax professional, either a

[00:18:59] CPA or accountant they trust.

[00:19:00] And then we work closely with them and have discussions with them.

[00:19:04] And when we're creating business structures to make sure that what

[00:19:07] we're creating still works tax efficiently, cause that's the most important

[00:19:11] thing really I can protect you all kinds of ways.

[00:19:14] Uh, but the way you measure success in business, unfortunately is money.

[00:19:18] So we need to make sure we're keeping as much as possible.

[00:19:21] And so we work with those professionals.

[00:19:23] We do contracts, we do intellectual property, we do estate planning for

[00:19:27] our business owners because we want to make sure that there's not a

[00:19:30] problem when something either happens to them, right?

[00:19:32] There's two things you're either going to become incapacitated

[00:19:34] and then die or you're just going to die.

[00:19:36] I hate to break it to everybody, but those are the two options.

[00:19:39] And so the business owner, you've got to have a plan in place where

[00:19:42] someone else can step in and make decisions for you, sign checks for

[00:19:46] you, like make payroll if you're temporarily disabled.

[00:19:50] If you, if you don't have that set up right, they can't get the

[00:19:54] court fast enough to make payroll.

[00:19:56] You don't make payroll once maybe you survive.

[00:19:59] You don't make payroll twice and your business is gone.

[00:20:02] Yeah.

[00:20:02] Yeah.

[00:20:03] That's really wise advice.

[00:20:05] And, uh, you know, I think it's always important for an entrepreneur

[00:20:08] to ensure that their attorney and their accountant are talking, right?

[00:20:13] That's, that's an incredible value there.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:17] One of the things that we talked to all of our clients about, and, uh, I

[00:20:20] write about in my book is that you have to assemble a team of key advisors.

[00:20:25] One of which is the CPA accountant.

[00:20:28] You need a lawyer for sure.

[00:20:30] You need a business coach.

[00:20:31] You need a banker, not a bank.

[00:20:33] You need a relationship with an actual banker that can, you know,

[00:20:36] will take your, your calls.

[00:20:38] We'll call you on your cell phone, you know, someone that actually

[00:20:40] cares about you and your business.

[00:20:42] Uh, and then you need an insurance broker that will sit down with you

[00:20:45] and actually talk about what you do, understand your risks and then give

[00:20:49] you the whole array of coverages that you could use and then let you pick

[00:20:54] and choose what feels right or what's in your budget.

[00:20:57] If you have that team around you and they all can talk, then you

[00:21:01] can be out, you can go out, make money, let them talk in the

[00:21:04] background, bring you questions or decisions to make instead of you

[00:21:07] having to wrangle all of them.

[00:21:09] And if you do it that way, then you have this super team of advisors

[00:21:12] that can really help you go places fast.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:16] So let's talk a little bit about some of the models.

[00:21:19] You mentioned your book and you talk about things like

[00:21:21] shatterproofing your business.

[00:21:23] What does that mean?

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] Shatterproofing comes from the concept of the glass in our cars, right?

[00:21:31] We have these windshields that are shatterproof.

[00:21:33] Came from, it was invented around World War I and was first used

[00:21:37] successfully in gas masks to create a barrier between the soldiers and that

[00:21:42] mustard seed gas and wasn't really adopted until much later in cars.

[00:21:46] But the idea is, or at least I believe that our businesses are the best

[00:21:50] vehicle to achieve our life goals and dreams.

[00:21:52] And every vehicle I've ever been in has a windshield and it's got two

[00:21:56] purposes, one's vision, the other's protection.

[00:21:59] And so that shatterproof glass is giving you that protection.

[00:22:02] We want to build shatterproof businesses.

[00:22:04] So then when those rocks on the road hit your windshield, like hit mine

[00:22:07] every day I get on I-35, they mark it.

[00:22:10] I can pull over later and fix it.

[00:22:13] But if I haven't got the right glass, if I don't have a

[00:22:15] shatterproof business, then it comes right through that glass,

[00:22:18] hits me in the face.

[00:22:19] I go off the road, game over.

[00:22:21] But if you build it correctly, if you follow the shatterproof process

[00:22:24] and go through the six phases, your chances of that happening are very

[00:22:28] minimal and you're able to survive.

[00:22:30] Because the idea is to build a business that's going to bend and not break.

[00:22:35] And most businesses just aren't set up that way.

[00:22:38] And so that's the process.

[00:22:40] It all started for me when I read Michael Gerber's book, The E-Myth Revisited.

[00:22:44] And I was like, oh, I haven't built my law firm that way.

[00:22:48] And then I started building, learning how to build it on systems.

[00:22:51] I hired business coaches.

[00:22:52] And then I had to figure out how does the legal stuff mix into that?

[00:22:57] And with that mix, you end up with the shatterproof process.

[00:23:01] Yeah.

[00:23:02] The E-Myth and the E-Myth Revisited, great books by Michael Gerber.

[00:23:05] I highly recommend them for every small business and owner, every founder.

[00:23:11] I think they're fantastic books.

[00:23:13] And so I love your analogy.

[00:23:17] I think it makes a whole lot of sense.

[00:23:19] It sounds like to me that you're also doing coaching.

[00:23:23] And I know you do something called next level legal coaching.

[00:23:27] So how does that differ from, you know, typical attorney that I as a small

[00:23:33] business owner might work with?

[00:23:35] What are some of the things that make next level legal coaching different?

[00:23:41] Yeah, there's a couple of things we do there.

[00:23:42] First with next level legal coaching is that I help other lawyers that

[00:23:45] want to build their own subscription plans.

[00:23:47] They want some freedom in life and they want to get out of that

[00:23:50] rat race of building by the hour.

[00:23:52] We can help them and show them how to do that.

[00:23:55] The next thing we do is through shatterproof solutions.

[00:23:58] And that's where we walk business owners through the shatterproof

[00:24:00] process of not just the legal side.

[00:24:03] With me, you always are going to get that, but it's how do you, how do

[00:24:06] you do the right leadership things?

[00:24:08] How do you set your company's vision, write your mission statement,

[00:24:11] create your core values, and then how do you use those things in business?

[00:24:15] Right?

[00:24:15] Cause everything rises and falls on leadership.

[00:24:18] And then how are we going to create a marketing system?

[00:24:21] How are we going to create a sales system?

[00:24:23] I always encourage my clients to create a recurring revenue model

[00:24:26] because I'm in love with it.

[00:24:27] It changed my life and they should have that component.

[00:24:30] And so in shatterproof solutions, we're doing live events where we

[00:24:34] teach people of these concepts.

[00:24:35] And then we invite them into a deeper relationship with us through

[00:24:39] a mastermind group so that if they want to really grow and scale fast.

[00:24:43] Yeah, that's, that's fantastic.

[00:24:45] So what you've done, it sounds like is incorporate technology

[00:24:50] into what you're doing.

[00:24:52] Um, cause it sounds like, you know, that you've got an opportunity

[00:24:56] or maybe I'm assuming, maybe you haven't, but, um, is, can you

[00:25:00] work with clients remotely at all?

[00:25:03] Uh, through the coaching?

[00:25:05] Yeah, it's rare that I, it's rare.

[00:25:07] I see anybody in person anymore.

[00:25:08] I had a call last week with a client that's about an hour down

[00:25:11] the road and she's actually come in next week and I was very happy.

[00:25:14] It's like, she's gonna come in and use my conference room.

[00:25:16] And we're going to have a face-to-face meeting.

[00:25:18] There's clients I've never met face-to-face.

[00:25:20] Uh, because it's just so easy to use, uh, things like Zoom, uh, teams.

[00:25:26] Uh, and we've been using that technology since 2018, uh, because

[00:25:30] it just made it where I could go from meeting the meetings so much more

[00:25:34] efficiently, uh, have a recording of what happened so that my team can

[00:25:38] create action steps so that we don't forget to do things.

[00:25:41] It just, it really changed a lot of stuff for me by

[00:25:44] leveraging that technology.

[00:25:46] Uh, one of our biggest problems right now is our technology stack's too big.

[00:25:49] And so we're working to try to shrink it and find things that do multiple,

[00:25:54] multiple parts so that we have less because onboarding people is not fun

[00:25:57] when your technology stack's really big.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] So, uh, by that, do you mean you've got a lot of different individual

[00:26:05] platforms you're using and you want to combine that?

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:09] Yeah.

[00:26:09] And a lot of them work together, but it's still, you have

[00:26:12] to learn all these different things.

[00:26:14] Yeah.

[00:26:15] It's, I think it's a problem that a lot of businesses, um, uh, you know,

[00:26:21] are challenged with as they start to incorporate technology more.

[00:26:26] It becomes very easy to have yourself, you know, subscribe to a lot

[00:26:31] of different technology platforms.

[00:26:33] And then before you know it, um, you know, it's not only expensive,

[00:26:37] but it's also, um, gets a little bit too complex.

[00:26:41] Um, so, so let me back up and ask you about COVID.

[00:26:44] Were you meeting remotely prior to COVID?

[00:26:49] Um, or did COVID help, um, you know, sort of, uh, propel you forward

[00:26:55] into doing more remote meeting with clients.

[00:26:59] We were already remote.

[00:27:00] Um, we were doing most, most of our client conversations

[00:27:04] were happening remotely.

[00:27:05] We were starting to do sales calls remotely.

[00:27:07] Some people still wanted to come in.

[00:27:09] Um, but we were already doing it.

[00:27:11] So when, so when we had to go home, it was just a matter of taking our

[00:27:15] laptop home and doing what we were doing already.

[00:27:17] Um, it w it was, it was, we were, we were ready for it.

[00:27:21] And so it was really not that big of a deal other than

[00:27:23] just having to not be together.

[00:27:25] It was, so we were, we were ready for it, which was very nice.

[00:27:29] Yeah.

[00:27:30] Yeah.

[00:27:30] I had not thought too much about that.

[00:27:33] Um, you know, but, but being ahead of the curve on that, uh, probably

[00:27:37] gave you a real advantage, uh, when that happened, uh, because I know a lot of

[00:27:41] other, a lot of other legal practices and other kinds of services and

[00:27:47] businesses really struggled with that transition.

[00:27:50] So it sounds like you, you didn't have, uh, you didn't miss too

[00:27:54] much there when, when that happened.

[00:27:56] Obviously we all went through a lot of change.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] Um, it sounds like you were ready more prepared than many.

[00:28:02] Yeah.

[00:28:02] 2018, we started making switching from desktops to laptops and you, and everything

[00:28:08] went to things that either were completely on the cloud or had cloud backups.

[00:28:13] So that, and selfishly it was really selfishly for me so that I could work

[00:28:17] anywhere in the world, uh, and have access to everything I needed.

[00:28:20] And so that, uh, I knew if we had an ice storm or some kind of a weather

[00:28:24] event that my team could keep working from wherever they were.

[00:28:28] And so we built it that way, uh, before, before the pandemic and it just, it's

[00:28:35] just, you know, we've ramped up since then I use a lot more technology.

[00:28:38] Uh, than we did then, but we were ready.

[00:28:41] It made everything very easy because we could still have team meetings

[00:28:44] and do all the things that we were doing before.

[00:28:46] And so, yeah, we were, we were very blessed to have had the foresight

[00:28:49] to do that for different reasons than you would think, but we did it.

[00:28:52] Right.

[00:28:53] Right.

[00:28:54] So, um, so you've got this kind of two lines of business.

[00:28:57] You coach other legal practices that want to do something similar to what you're

[00:29:02] doing, and then you also coach and work with, with business founders.

[00:29:07] So, uh, in entrepreneurs, so, um, you know, I have to ask

[00:29:11] you about building your company.

[00:29:13] You said you have about 40 people on your team.

[00:29:16] Did I hear that correctly or?

[00:29:18] No, I don't.

[00:29:20] That'd be amazing.

[00:29:21] No, I had,

[00:29:22] Oh, okay.

[00:29:23] I'm sorry.

[00:29:23] I'm how many people?

[00:29:25] So tell us about your team and, and are you all located, um, in the same place?

[00:29:31] Or are you, you remote?

[00:29:33] We're a mix.

[00:29:34] So there's two of us that are in the office full-time.

[00:29:37] Uh, I have a full-time paralegal that's been with you almost a decade.

[00:29:41] And then we have remote teammates.

[00:29:43] We have five, uh, what I would call full-time or regular employees.

[00:29:49] And then we have vendors that we use on contract basis and we use con a lot

[00:29:53] of contract lawyers to work on projects.

[00:29:56] My role here is more on the client relationship and strategy side.

[00:30:00] And we try to keep me out of the legal documents because my time's

[00:30:03] better spent doing other things.

[00:30:06] Uh, occasionally I still jump into projects because they're something I

[00:30:09] want to do, but we've tried to keep the team as small as possible.

[00:30:14] So the, and that's one of the lessons that we did learn in COVID is

[00:30:17] that we could do a lot more than we thought we could with the smaller team.

[00:30:21] I had had a full-time associate, uh, just, just before all that hit and

[00:30:26] had not replaced them just kind of because I don't like interviewing people.

[00:30:31] And so we had waited a little bit.

[00:30:32] And then when that hit, it was like, Hey, you know what?

[00:30:34] We don't really need, we don't really need that position anymore.

[00:30:39] So we haven't done that.

[00:30:40] I've been able to cover everything we want to with people that are,

[00:30:43] there's enough lawyers out there that need more work.

[00:30:47] That are really good lawyers, but they just aren't quite full.

[00:30:49] And we make it really easy for them to fill, you know, a few extra hours a week.

[00:30:54] They do quality work for us.

[00:30:56] And I mean, they talk to our clients, they do everything.

[00:30:59] They just aren't employees.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:02] Does that re so how, um, any thoughts or advice on, on this whole

[00:31:08] remote workforce, anything, anything that you've learned about that?

[00:31:13] It's really challenging, uh, from a leadership standpoint to build culture.

[00:31:18] I think it's very difficult to do remotely.

[00:31:21] Um, if I, I wish I could have everyone in the same place.

[00:31:26] It just, it just doesn't work for us right now.

[00:31:30] I could see it happening again in the future where maybe we have a bigger,

[00:31:34] uh, a bigger home base and everyone's here more often, but you just have

[00:31:39] to have really, uh, intentional time to spend with the team and talk

[00:31:45] about the same things you would've talked about in meetings.

[00:31:48] And I, I'm, I'm bad about that because I'll get, I'll like to be really

[00:31:51] practical and just talk about what.

[00:31:53] What's coming up, what do we need to focus on and not about the leadership

[00:31:56] stuff, but I've found them more.

[00:31:58] I talk about our mission, vision and culture, uh, core values that we tend

[00:32:03] to make better decisions, provide better service and everyone's more aligned.

[00:32:08] But if you don't talk about that stuff and you aren't letting everyone

[00:32:10] meet remotely and giving them the tools to do that, for instance, like

[00:32:14] we use Slack from all of our internal communication.

[00:32:18] And if you're listening and haven't ever used Slack, it's got a way in

[00:32:21] it where you can connect with people visually, um, and have video

[00:32:25] calls right through the app.

[00:32:27] So it's, I mean, it's just like it used to be when I were, we

[00:32:30] were in offices and you could intercom someone except now I

[00:32:32] can see them face to face.

[00:32:34] And so it really shrinks your world and they can be across

[00:32:38] the country in another country.

[00:32:40] And it's like, they're just next door.

[00:32:42] And so if you use those things, then it really can help you have

[00:32:45] the camaraderie you need.

[00:32:47] Um, but there's, there's, I still think there's nothing like having

[00:32:51] everyone, you know, be able to do a standup meeting in the conference

[00:32:54] room before you start your day.

[00:32:56] But we're, we're where we are now.

[00:32:59] That's the, that's the hardest thing.

[00:33:01] That's the thing I've heard the most and even experienced myself is

[00:33:05] building that culture and making sure everybody is clear on the vision

[00:33:11] and the goals and, and sort of, um, you know, all those kind of, um, soft

[00:33:17] scale things that are not as obvious sometimes, cause you can have

[00:33:21] fantastic talent, but, um, you know, if they're not, if they're not

[00:33:26] clear on the culture and the way clients are treated and all of that,

[00:33:31] it can, it can undermine what you're doing very quickly.

[00:33:34] You know, I have to ask because a lot of our listeners are small business

[00:33:37] owners or, uh, business founders, or they're interested in starting businesses.

[00:33:43] What are some of the biggest mistakes that you've seen, um, entrepreneurs

[00:33:49] or small business owners make with respect to legal services?

[00:33:55] Yeah.

[00:33:55] Let's say there's two big ones.

[00:33:57] One is that they are running as a sole proprietor, which you would

[00:34:01] think it wouldn't happen, but I run into it a lot.

[00:34:04] I was speaking at a conference in Atlanta two, two weeks ago

[00:34:07] and ran into a lot of it.

[00:34:08] Um, it's crazy.

[00:34:10] People are still not having corporations and LLCs.

[00:34:13] They're a sole proprietor, which is very easy to operate that way.

[00:34:15] Cause it's takes no legal structure, but then you're solely responsible for

[00:34:20] everything that your business does.

[00:34:21] So which means any assets you buy with your profit they can take

[00:34:25] if there's a liability event.

[00:34:26] So that's the number one mistake closely tied to that would be that

[00:34:31] they're not protecting their brand.

[00:34:33] Too many people are building a business on a brand that they don't own.

[00:34:37] And what I mean by that is you don't have a trademark and someone else

[00:34:41] actually has that trademark and you're not aware of it because you've

[00:34:44] just been blissfully unaware because you didn't do the research.

[00:34:47] And so it's super important because you don't want to get to the end

[00:34:50] of the game and have climbed this ladder of success and have it leaning

[00:34:53] on someone else's building.

[00:34:55] And I, every year we either have, we get a client that comes in and says,

[00:34:59] Hey, I got this letter that says I have to cease and desist from using

[00:35:02] this company name and rebrand in 30 days.

[00:35:05] It happens every year.

[00:35:07] And it's pretty shocking when that happens to you because maybe

[00:35:10] you've been in business eight years and suddenly someone shows up and

[00:35:13] says we've been in business 10 years and that's our name and you

[00:35:16] can't use it, here's our trademark registration and there's really no

[00:35:20] defense to it.

[00:35:21] You then got to rebrand and there's a loss of money that you're going

[00:35:24] to have to spend in rebranding.

[00:35:26] And then the momentum that you lose with, with loss, the loss of your

[00:35:30] name, it's, uh, it's just, it's a horrible mistake that too many business

[00:35:35] owners are making just because they're not aware that it's something

[00:35:38] they should be doing.

[00:35:40] And when you form your company and as soon as you decide this isn't

[00:35:44] a hobby, this is a business, then you should take the next step of

[00:35:48] this is Mike, this is our name.

[00:35:50] We're going to make sure we can own and dominate that name.

[00:35:52] And that means you file a trademark application.

[00:35:55] And it's not, it's not super expensive.

[00:35:58] There is an investment, but it's worth it.

[00:36:01] We went through a hundred names for a company last year, trying to get

[00:36:04] to a name that we felt could make it through the process.

[00:36:08] And so there's some, there's some real work to do in getting

[00:36:10] to that application.

[00:36:12] So don't fall in love with your, this name or brand for your

[00:36:15] company until you've done the work because you could lose it.

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:19] It sounds like talking to an attorney early is, is, is the way to overcome

[00:36:26] some of that and making sure.

[00:36:27] I mean, a lot of that you can do on your own, but just having someone

[00:36:32] check and make sure that, um, that you've got a brand that you

[00:36:35] can own and, and, uh, maintain.

[00:36:38] It sounds really important.

[00:36:40] And another question I have along that branding line, it, do you think

[00:36:45] it's important for the individual entrepreneur to also have a personal

[00:36:49] brand online these days?

[00:36:52] Yeah, I think it's, uh, both necessary and unavoidable.

[00:36:57] There's you, you're going to have a personal brand.

[00:37:00] Uh, it's either going to be intentional and one that you like, or it's

[00:37:04] going to be a really poor unintentional brand because you didn't don't appear.

[00:37:08] Well, if people log on to LinkedIn and there's a little icon and no

[00:37:13] picture, you've got a brand and that means they think you don't care.

[00:37:16] You're the business owner that doesn't care.

[00:37:18] So yeah, you've got to have it and there's there, they're closely tied

[00:37:22] together, but they're all so different.

[00:37:25] Um, I mean, I do, like, I do, like we've talked about, I do

[00:37:27] several different things, but my personal brand, the Shutter and the

[00:37:31] Shutterproof brand are so tied together that that's what I stand for.

[00:37:35] I mean, I'm America's legal coach and I'm not trying to help business

[00:37:38] owners grow and protect their businesses.

[00:37:40] And it, when I do other things that is always drug into it

[00:37:44] is who is Scott Reeb.

[00:37:46] That's who he is and it has an effect on my business or if I'm doing

[00:37:50] joint venture with other people, my brand is either a dark shadow or welcome

[00:37:56] sunlight to that brand, to the other venture.

[00:37:58] And so you got to be intentional about it.

[00:38:03] Yeah.

[00:38:03] So I think that's a really good point.

[00:38:05] There's going to be something out there.

[00:38:07] So you, you need to manage it in a positive way so that reflects what you

[00:38:11] want and, uh, you know, it's, that's the world we live in now, right?

[00:38:16] The things are people as soon as that your name comes up, people go out

[00:38:21] and start to see what you've got on LinkedIn and what your other legal

[00:38:25] or not legal, but a digital presence looks like.

[00:38:28] So, um, it's, it's kind of, kind of critical these days.

[00:38:32] One of the things that I read about you is that you are the official

[00:38:36] Zig Ziglar small business lawyer and a Ziglar certified coach.

[00:38:42] So tell us what that means.

[00:38:43] And, you know, probably some of our audience, because they may be young,

[00:38:47] may not know who Zig Ziglar is.

[00:38:49] So, um, you know, he, uh, he probably starting out in sales,

[00:38:54] you knew a lot about Zig Ziglar, but could you just tell our audience

[00:38:57] a little bit about, um, you know, what that means to be, you know,

[00:39:02] to have those titles and why that's important to you?

[00:39:06] Yeah.

[00:39:06] Zig Ziglar, um, was the sales and leadership guru in my opinion,

[00:39:11] and in the late seventies and eighties, nineties, uh, he passed away

[00:39:15] before I got to be, um, be the company's lawyer, but he was the go-to

[00:39:20] guy, he influenced over 10 million, uh, small business owners, salespeople

[00:39:25] with his message of how to, you know, how to be, uh, how to build

[00:39:29] a better person, how to be, do and have more.

[00:39:33] And I have the privilege of being a certified legacy trainer

[00:39:38] so I can teach Zig's courses.

[00:39:40] And then I'm also the business lawyer and get to hang out

[00:39:44] with that family a lot, but it's, uh, it's.

[00:39:49] It's changed a lot in my trajectory because, because of the integrity

[00:39:53] that Zig had and his family has, and they've been, and they've been kind

[00:39:57] enough, Tom even wrote the foreword to my new book, uh, to put their stamp

[00:40:01] on me as the official small business lawyer, but I helped them grow their

[00:40:05] business, uh, and then they use me as a resource to help all the people

[00:40:10] that are going through the things that they're doing, try to keep

[00:40:12] their business between the lines.

[00:40:14] I speak if they have, when they have events and conferences,

[00:40:16] they invite me often to speak and try to help people understand

[00:40:20] the importance and significance of running your business the

[00:40:23] right way from a legal perspective.

[00:40:26] You know, I find that so interesting and it's, um, the idea of a, of

[00:40:31] influencers is really big today.

[00:40:33] Everybody talks about, uh, influencers and of course Zig Ziglar is a huge

[00:40:38] name and somebody my age definitely knew and, um, you know, and, and,

[00:40:44] uh, so it's, I think that the idea of influencers and how you can,

[00:40:50] um, get that kind of build your credibility by, um, by being

[00:40:55] connected to others who are successful and probably a good lesson

[00:40:59] in there for every entrepreneur to think about.

[00:41:03] Yeah.

[00:41:03] And I was, um, in 2014, uh, I was looking for a niche, right?

[00:41:09] I'm a small business lawyer, but I'm working with all these

[00:41:11] small businesses and then to market, I really need to have a

[00:41:14] target that I was shooting for or my message hit no one.

[00:41:18] And so I, I wanted to work with speakers, trainers and coaches.

[00:41:21] So I went to a certification program, went to Atlanta, to a three day

[00:41:25] event that was more money than I really should have paid.

[00:41:28] And my homework was to go to a live event.

[00:41:30] The only person I knew in Texas was Ziglar.

[00:41:32] And so I went to an event, ended up in a car with Tom Ziegler, you know,

[00:41:36] right, he took me back to the airport.

[00:41:38] And so I got to spend in Houston traffic, almost two hours

[00:41:41] riding around with Tom Ziegler.

[00:41:43] It was surreal.

[00:41:44] Uh, if you know, Tom, he's a, he's a huge nerd.

[00:41:46] He's nothing like his dad, you know, as it doesn't look like his dad,

[00:41:51] doesn't sound like his dad, but all the wisdom of his dad and I knew

[00:41:56] Zig because my dad was in sales and went to Zig conferences and I had had tapes.

[00:42:02] So I knew, I knew who I was with.

[00:42:05] It was, it was crazy.

[00:42:06] We get to the airport and go on different planes and I'm calling my dad.

[00:42:09] You're not going to believe what just happened.

[00:42:10] And about a month later, uh, I ended up back at a lunch with him and to

[00:42:16] talk to him about becoming their lawyer and asked him if I could show

[00:42:20] him my sales presentation and like you guys are the sales people.

[00:42:24] Can I show you my presentation just to get some feedback, walked him through

[00:42:27] back then it was a flip chart in 2014 and got to the end and said, is there

[00:42:32] any reason you wouldn't do business with me today, Mr.

[00:42:34] Ziegler and shut up.

[00:42:37] And a few minutes later he said, don't give me an agreement.

[00:42:39] I'm ready to go.

[00:42:40] And so they became, uh, early access members and the rest is history.

[00:42:45] Yeah.

[00:42:46] I, I absolutely loved that story because the, the power of your network.

[00:42:51] Um, some people say that your network is your net worth.

[00:42:54] And, um, the other thing that is I think so impactful about that story

[00:43:00] is that we never know what's going to happen when we show up.

[00:43:04] And, um, I think, um, you know, I've heard it said that most every

[00:43:09] opportunity you get can come from showing up and, and so you don't

[00:43:13] know what that's going to be.

[00:43:14] You just have to go and be open.

[00:43:16] And, uh, and it's a great story that probably changed the trajectory of

[00:43:21] your work and your business in many ways by, by making that decision to,

[00:43:27] to go to that conference.

[00:43:29] And, uh, and, uh, and the, the, you know, the rest is,

[00:43:34] the rest is a story, right?

[00:43:35] That's how it worked.

[00:43:37] Yeah.

[00:43:39] So, um, you know, one of the things that entrepreneurs all face and you as

[00:43:44] a business owner, um, also have to deal with is overcoming challenges

[00:43:50] and remaining resilience because that's what really separates all of us.

[00:43:55] So were there any times as you were building this new approach that

[00:43:59] you thought, Hey, I'm just going to give up and go back and it's easier

[00:44:03] to practice law as a partner somewhere and not try to do all of this other,

[00:44:10] uh, you know, new innovative approach to the legal practice.

[00:44:14] Did you ever want to give up and, and, uh, did you ever have any challenges

[00:44:19] that really kind of made you step back and think about it that you had to

[00:44:22] overcome?

[00:44:24] I never wanted to give up, but I definitely have had some challenges.

[00:44:28] Uh, in 2014, I learned a really hard lesson.

[00:44:32] Um, I had built my firm up.

[00:44:34] We had three full-time lawyers, several more staff people than

[00:44:38] you and I just discussed.

[00:44:39] And we were on our way to my, to our first seven figure year.

[00:44:44] Uh, and I ended up one of the, one of the lawyers left around in May.

[00:44:49] Uh, I was on going to a family vacation.

[00:44:51] The last, last part of May, 1st of June was in California at

[00:44:55] Universal Studios with my family.

[00:44:57] I had two boys then now they were young boys.

[00:45:00] They're grown now and we're in line at Universal.

[00:45:03] I'm like, I haven't looked at my phone in a few days.

[00:45:05] I want to check my email.

[00:45:07] I checked the email Sunday afternoon and there's an email from the remaining

[00:45:11] lawyer saying it was his resignation, uh, attached as the list of cases and

[00:45:16] clients that I'm taking with me.

[00:45:18] Oh, and here's the, uh, paralegals resignation.

[00:45:20] And I had to make a choice.

[00:45:23] I could either end the vacation midway and fly back home and

[00:45:29] fight for my law firm or I could stay and finish the vacation.

[00:45:34] I chose to stay and finish the vacation.

[00:45:37] I did set up a virtual assistant.

[00:45:40] So I learned that technology that day and made sure my phone was being

[00:45:44] answered and finished the vacation and came back to my 2,500 square foot

[00:45:48] office with just me because the 18 year old receptionist got scared when

[00:45:53] no one else came and so she never came back.

[00:45:56] And so it was just me and.

[00:46:00] You know, I was mad at everyone for leaving.

[00:46:03] It was all their fault.

[00:46:05] It wasn't really their fault.

[00:46:07] It was my fault.

[00:46:08] Um, we had created at that point, we had two firms, we had the litigation

[00:46:12] firm and then my access firm.

[00:46:14] And as the access was growing, I was backing off of the

[00:46:17] litigation and how the people doing that.

[00:46:19] I had not cast a vision.

[00:46:21] I had not explained well where, where we were going and why I was, why

[00:46:26] we were doing all these crazy things.

[00:46:28] Cause I was going to these conferences, coming back with these great

[00:46:30] ideas, having them implement them.

[00:46:32] But I didn't cast the vision.

[00:46:34] I didn't explain to them.

[00:46:35] This is where we're going clearly so they could see there was a reason

[00:46:40] for all my madness and people left.

[00:46:43] And it was a pretty big wake up call for me that I had to rebuild from scratch.

[00:46:48] The benefit was if you've ever lost all your employees, you have no payroll.

[00:46:53] Uh, that's one advantage there is that your payroll goes to zero.

[00:46:56] And I had a recurring revenue model already built and it wasn't like

[00:47:00] it is now, but it was enough that I knew I could pay my bills without

[00:47:05] billing anybody anything so I could at least rest in that and then figured

[00:47:10] out how to rebuild it slowly and tried to be better at casting that vision

[00:47:15] so that everyone understands why we're doing crazy things.

[00:47:18] Cause if you're building a business, you're and you're going to

[00:47:22] conferences and learning and trying to become be a better person and

[00:47:26] business owner, then you can come back and ask people to do things

[00:47:29] that don't aren't comfortable for them.

[00:47:31] And they haven't been with you when you heard it.

[00:47:33] And so you've got to be able to explain why and how it fits and how

[00:47:36] it's going to be better for everybody.

[00:47:38] And so I've gotten better at that and learned that that

[00:47:42] that setback was my fault.

[00:47:44] It set me up for better things.

[00:47:46] Uh, but had I done better in 2013 and 14 of explaining where we were

[00:47:51] going, there's people that would still be with me for the ride and

[00:47:56] they would be better for it.

[00:47:57] But I didn't explain it to them.

[00:47:59] And so they're gone.

[00:48:01] Yeah.

[00:48:02] So many good lessons in there.

[00:48:04] I guess the one I'd love to pull out is that the importance of once

[00:48:09] you get over the anger, because we're all angry when these things happen

[00:48:13] is the ability to take ownership of it and say, what can I do

[00:48:17] to ensure this doesn't happen again?

[00:48:19] And, uh, regardless, I think of the crisis, there is typically a lesson

[00:48:25] in there that makes us better.

[00:48:27] And that I think that story tells that, um, tells that.

[00:48:33] So really, really, really fun talking to you today, Scott.

[00:48:37] I know we could talk for longer that, you know, there's many, many

[00:48:41] of my listeners who are out there trying to figure out how much

[00:48:44] legal assistance they need or when to see a lawyer and how that all works.

[00:48:49] But I think this is great.

[00:48:50] You have a book, um, that they might want to read.

[00:48:53] Do you want to mention your book and, and show your book there?

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:57] The new books out the Shutterproof entrepreneur it's live on Amazon.

[00:49:01] You can get a copy there.

[00:49:02] Uh, if you want an autographed copy, then you would go to reblah.com

[00:49:06] that's R E I B L A W.com forward slash in factor.

[00:49:12] And we'll have a special page set up there, uh, where

[00:49:14] you can book a call with me.

[00:49:16] It'll be a 20 minute zoom call where we can talk about the

[00:49:19] legal challenges that you have.

[00:49:20] I'll give you some unvarnished truth about what I think about your situation

[00:49:24] and you can take that and use it.

[00:49:27] If we can help you then great, but either way you'll leave with value.

[00:49:30] And then if you'll go to that page, there's a way for you to message me

[00:49:34] so I can get you an autographed copy.

[00:49:36] That's so that's rebe R E I B law forward slash in factor.

[00:49:42] Yeah.

[00:49:42] Okay.

[00:49:43] freeblaw.com forward slash in factor.

[00:49:46] Well, I'm excited.

[00:49:47] Uh, it's been fun having you.

[00:49:48] I just have to ask you one more question before you leave.

[00:49:52] If you had one piece of advice that you could leave with our

[00:49:55] listeners, what would it be?

[00:50:00] Talked to a lawyer early and often.

[00:50:03] Yep.

[00:50:05] Sounds like a good one.

[00:50:06] And I think we talked about that a little bit earlier on and you

[00:50:09] gave lots of reasons why that matters.

[00:50:11] So Scott, thank you again.

[00:50:13] I hope everybody will go check out your book and, uh, read law.

[00:50:17] And, uh, thanks for joining me today.

[00:50:19] It was fun.

[00:50:21] Thanks, Rebecca.

[00:50:21] I had a good time too.

[00:50:24] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to learn more about entrepreneurship,

[00:50:28] we would love it if you hit that subscribe button.

[00:50:31] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of in factor.