Streamlining Creativity: Revolutionizing Content Collaboration with Niklas Dorn

[00:00:02] Welcome to the En Factor, conversations with entrepreneurs that started, stumbled and

[00:00:36] succeeded. I'm Rebecca White and today my guest is Nicholas Dorn and Nicholas is the founder and CEO of FileStage. He's a young entrepreneur from Germany originally living in France and I'm really excited to have this conversation with him today to check in and learn more about his background and how he started FileStage and what they do. So Nicholas, thank you for joining me today.

[00:01:03] Thanks a lot for your invitation. I'm really excited.

[00:01:07] Yes, yes, this is a lot of fun. We were just talking a little bit before we got started. You're a young entrepreneur, you started FileStage, you're from Germany. You've got now three children, two of them came as twins recently. And we're talking today about where you are as an entrepreneur. But I'm very curious to find out before we get into all of that.

[00:01:32] What is FileStage and what does it do?

[00:01:38] There's a long answer and a short answer.

[00:01:41] Okay, let's hear it.

[00:01:43] Cool. So in a nutshell, FileStage is a tool to share, review and approve every kind of content that you have. So it can be a video, it can be an image, it can be a PDF, it can be a Word doc, whatever you want to share with somebody, a bit like a Dropbox.

[00:01:57] But then also needs to review and give you direct feedback in this document. This is basically in a nutshell what we provide. And then I mean, I can dive into all the details. What I always say is that we close the gap between content creation on the one side and social media distribution on the other side.

[00:02:16] So everything that happens in Pieden, he is a piece of content. We need to get that live. All the conversations in between and all the back and forth that normally happens via email. That's something that is now captured in FileStage.

[00:02:29] Oh, fascinating. So you're cutting out my time when I want to take something from say an experience like we're having today even and post it on my LinkedIn or on my Instagram. Is that right?

[00:02:42] Exactly. Exactly. So typically I say we replace like email ping pong for all the content that's going out and all the back and forth. And that's typically what marketers and designers feel every day. And they're really like, you're not really happy in most of the cases. They just want to be creative, you know, and not spend time like trying to solve the riddle in their email funnel.

[00:03:01] Yeah, it's interesting. Just before we got on, I was dealing with this problem myself. Maybe you can share. I could have used it. I could have used FileShare, I think. Well, let's talk in this podcast. I really focus on an entrepreneurial mindset. So I'm really curious about you and how you got to this point. You know, what's the most important thing that you've done in your career?

[00:03:31] What led you to FileStage? Is this your first company? Did you always want to be an entrepreneur? You know, why did you decide you wanted to solve this problem?

[00:03:42] I love this question. So basically, back in university in a master's program, I studied media management. So I always have like a connection with all the topic with that topic. And my co-founder also used to be like a video producer, producing advertising content for lots of clients.

[00:04:01] And we both studied in the same master's program. And we said, okay, basically, it's another year here, but what afterwards? And we both said, okay, we don't want to just go out and work in an advertising agency or in a marketing team. We used to do that always a bit like before the master's but said, somehow, it doesn't trigger us. We want to create something on our own. We want to start something on our own. And that's basically the starting point.

[00:04:31] And then for me personally, I spent one semester abroad in San Marcos, California, and studied also entrepreneurship over there. And that's really where I got hooked, so to say, with the entire spirit and brought it back to me to Germany. And then from there, I think we really started to explore the actual problem that we are solving with FileStage. Picking up a bit like what my co-founder had learned in his own career and producing video content.

[00:05:01] Yeah. Well, that's a great story. And there's a lot of interesting things in there to talk about. But I just have to dig in first a little bit to some questions actually that came up in a seminar that I was doing last night.

[00:05:15] I had a question about the international students that we get here in the U.S. and whether or not those students talk much about challenges or advantages of starting companies in other countries. So I'm just curious about your experience in Europe with a startup versus what you see in the U.S.

[00:05:40] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I never started the company in the U.S., so I can't tell you firsthand, but of course, I read a lot of stuff. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I mean, the U.S. is the number one, let's say startup factory, if you want to say it like this and really leading. So it's always like the big role model.

[00:05:58] I think one of the major differences I see, especially Germany compared to the U.S., is Germany is super founder friendly for early stage pre-seed companies. So there are a couple of programs that you really get money from the government to really start something from the ground, especially if you are just coming right out of university.

[00:06:21] So we were lucky and got, I think back then it was around 100K for the first year just sponsored by the government to really start and build your idea. And that's perfect. So it really gives you this starting power, so to say.

[00:06:36] However, later on if you then cross that point, there's a lot less money in the market than in the U.S., so let's say if you then want to really build something on top of this and get additional funds, it's way harder, I think. And it was way harder because there is just less capital in the market. I think potentially today it has changed as well.

[00:06:59] But back then it was pretty much like, OK, if you don't make money yet and don't have a lot of clients yet and show me that your business is actually running, why should I invest? So there is no real venture capital or there was no real venture capital available back then.

[00:07:16] And it was always a bit like how to overcome this gap. And once you are at this point that you make money, everybody wants to invest. So that's a bit like how I see a bit like the differences.

[00:07:25] Right, right. Yeah, I mean, that's always been the case when you don't need money. It's really easy to get, right?

[00:07:33] So and interestingly, I think we suffer from some of the same gaps that you're talking about.

[00:07:41] You know, when I spent a number of years working in this space in the Ohio and Kentucky area, and they had a program really specifically to help develop investors, to help change their mindset, so to speak, so that they would be more interested in some riskier investments.

[00:08:03] But that's really encouraging to hear that there is a lot of support for startup community. And I think I mentioned before we talked that I have a former student that developed a software company there in Germany as well.

[00:08:16] So you're now living in France. Is that part of your company? Did you move your company there or are you, is that just a personal reason and you're still running your company out of out of Germany?

[00:08:27] Basically, it's just a personal reason. So my wife found a really, really good job over here. So we moved. But for the company, I mean, we were also lucky enough to say that the company and the structure we've built is so flexible that we can basically work from everywhere.

[00:08:43] I know today there are a lot of remote companies, but back then, I think in 2018, we already decided to go fully remote.

[00:08:52] Main reason back then was we couldn't find great developers in our area. So we just had to change things and that helped us so much. And now we are 100% remote company.

[00:09:04] I think we have 26 different nations working at five stage from different countries. If I still want to go to the headquarters, it's also just one and a half hours by train or something or car from my place in France to Germany. So that's also an advantage.

[00:09:21] Yeah, yeah. And well, and you bring up a really good point, I think, and one to talk about, and that is, you know, things things changed a lot partially because of COVID. I think in the tech space where you are, it was happening long before.

[00:09:37] But remote work has really changed our landscape. So could you talk a little bit about what you've learned about building a remote company, a company where your employees and even your CEOs, your founders can work from anywhere, so to speak?

[00:09:58] Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, let me think what the most interesting learnings are because there are of course on the way so many and I think many people have already shared something about remote work, right?

[00:10:08] For me on the one side, it was a bit like the, the aha moment that I mean, of course in a normal company, an office company, you have those natural bonding moments just every day. So you meet in the coffee kitchen, you just meet and go for a restaurant and all that.

[00:10:27] It just happens naturally. And also, naturally, you know exactly how people in your company feel if they're in a good mood and a bad mood, if they're sick or not, you will just feel it because you're in the same place. If you're a remote company, you just need to carefully manage all of that and build kind of systems to still get the wipe of the company.

[00:10:52] Because yes, if you don't have any meeting setup or anything in this direction, you will never know if your remote co-worker is in a good mood or not. You just don't know it and you just don't feel it.

[00:11:05] The other thing that we learned is that it's super important to carefully manage communication. So how information is flowing.

[00:11:13] So for us, it was a big exercise to make sure all the important information is documented, that we have a proper wiki that is really up to date, that people can really access the tools and everything from every place they're working on and not depend on you.

[00:11:29] Because again, in an office, it's a bit like, I don't have access here. I just walk over to the other office and then knock on the door and then I get it. But in a remote environment, maybe people are blocked for a couple of hours if you don't provide it.

[00:11:41] So yeah, I think from that perspective was just a super good exercise to get your company in shape and be really, really good organized. And at the same time, think about how you communicate in your team and how you make sure people are well and all that.

[00:11:56] I've heard over and over a couple of things. One is culture. How do you create a culture? And I think that goes back to making sure people are happy and well and enjoying their work so that you're not surprised when they suddenly bolt and go somewhere else.

[00:12:14] But the other that you mentioned, I think, or implied anyway is, well, you mentioned communication. But I just heard recently from someone else that they had a big learning with their team, remote team, when just practically everybody left because they didn't understand the vision or the mission and what they were trying to accomplish.

[00:12:37] And I think that's all part of that communication, right? Being able to share where you're headed because people need that vision. I think they need to know why what they're doing matters to the organization. Would you agree with that?

[00:12:53] I would totally agree. And I also have to admit that at the beginning as a young founder, I totally underestimated company culture and vision and mission and everything in this direction. So I mean, of course, I heard about that stuff in university. And basically for me, it was a bit like, yeah, this is management textbook knowledge, you know, but in practice, you just need to build a good product and make sales and then everything's running, you know.

[00:13:23] And over time, I realized that company culture really comes first. And it even is the most important factor, I think, when you hire people. The major advantage if you just start a company is that you can really build the team and hire the people also by culture.

[00:13:45] And that's the major difference to players in the market that are there for 50 years or so. They just have to work with the people they have. And for us, it was an aha moment to say, okay, we can first on one side define what kind of culture we have. What kind of mission do we have in place? What kind of values do we want to live? What kind of people do we want to attract and work with?

[00:14:08] And till today, I feel like this is one of my biggest advantages that I'm a founder not potentially okay. I can make maybe more money or build a beautiful product that's also great. But for me, it was a factor that I can also decide who I'm going to work with. So basically, we have built a team where I really can say I love everybody I'm working with. I have a great time with my colleagues and everybody in the company and everybody.

[00:14:35] And that's the other big aha moment. Has a bit like the same culture and I have to be honest, I have to have more in common with my colleague sitting in India that we hired with the same cultures and values than for example, my neighbor next door here in France. So I think that's also a big aha moment for me.

[00:14:57] Yeah, there. I love everything that you said there because you're willing to share. I think it's so common to underestimate the importance of some of those things that do sound like they're just niceties. Oh, it would be nice to define our company culture or it would be nice to have a vision or mission.

[00:15:26] But the reality is, like you said, we got to make a product and sell it. And that's true when you get started. But I've heard so many entrepreneurs say that their people become a big part of their personal mission because suddenly people, their livelihoods, they're able to pay for the food for their family and the education for their children or whatever because of you and what you've done to start the company.

[00:15:52] So it can be both a big burden and a big blessing, I think, as a founder.

[00:15:57] Definitely. Yes.

[00:15:58] Do you find it kind of leads me to maybe a kind of introspection here. So bear with me as we kind of go into a little bit more about this. Do you find that it can be lonely as a founder as well to have this kind of responsibility, especially you're young and you've got other family members in the company.

[00:16:22] And you're doing responsibilities as well.

[00:16:27] Yeah, I mean, I'm doing this now for nine years or so. So I also have to say there are definitely periods where you feel super excited and boosted with energy. And then there are periods where you feel like, oh, this is so difficult and I'm really down and whatever.

[00:16:44] And I think this is something every every founder experiences over time. So you learn a lot about yourself. And I mean, this is also, I think, another big learning at the end. If you want to build a company and manage people well, I think you also have to manage yourself well and know yourself well.

[00:17:02] And also have to accept, let's say that some things maybe you are not the best at or at some things you maybe even suck and you're not really good at it and have to admit it. So for me, it was painful, of course.

[00:17:16] But also, I feel like it was important. So I think from looking back at my job at the beginning of five stage a bit like the person so my co-founders pretty much were handling the product and all the technical things.

[00:17:30] And I was responsible mainly for marketing, sales, finance, organization, hiring. So from being one person doing everything to really going into marketing or sales or now really having my CEO role such a major shift.

[00:17:50] And let's say sometimes it's also was just complicated to say and let go and let's say, okay, I we have built a proper marketing team, I hand over the responsibilities. And I also shut up even if I have potentially better ideas. I think there are better potentially are not better.

[00:18:07] And really let people also do their job. And yeah, so I think in a nutshell, that's yeah, yeah.

[00:18:16] Yeah, a few years back, I did a study on emotional intelligence and entrepreneurs and this model of emotional intelligence that was developed by Daniel Goldberg and Goldman.

[00:18:29] I'm sorry. And one of the I think the top among the interview entrepreneurs that we interviewed, they identified as trust as being one of the top criteria for success, you know, having trust in yourself and in your team and and I imagine with starting a company with a partner, a co founder, there has to be a lot of trust.

[00:18:57] Can you talk a little bit about about being an entrepreneur and having a co founder and and what you've learned from that experience? And, and so you've been doing this together for nine years.

[00:19:10] Yeah, actually, actually, we are three co founders originally. Okay, three co founders. Okay.

[00:19:14] And three years ago, we hired somebody that is now our CFO Ralph. So basically, we have now four people running the company and he was a super, super good addition. I have to say that. Yeah.

[00:19:29] Yeah, good. Yeah. So basically, I think at the start, I mean, it was just my one co founder coming from the video industry and me, basically, we started it. And then we were actually looking for somebody with software development skills that was also eager to start this company.

[00:19:50] So we really kind of run a bit like a casting to find somebody that was really good fit. So just ask around in our network and the friends and then basically, at the end, Simon turned up turned up and he I can say till today was the best decision ever that Simon joined this early, early group.

[00:20:13] And it matched. And I think one of the success factors we have is on the one side that everybody has different skill set. So I'm more on the marketing sales revenue side and Simon was really on the technical side and my L is really good in simplifying things and building a product.

[00:20:30] But then also early on, we had to be like the policy that everybody's responsible for different things. And the last decision is also with that person. So we can always debate. But at the end, if Simon tells me, no, we go for this tech stick, I follow his lead.

[00:20:48] And this gave us I think some freedom to go and run. And then over time, I can also say that all of us were willing to develop and learn and share feedback.

[00:21:02] Even if sometimes it was tough, so everybody in the company already had a bit like a tough period and it sometimes changed and everybody also messed up things and managed things very well. So, but nobody was ever angry or something.

[00:21:17] So we, I think over time developed a way to talk about things without being angry and taking this as an opportunity to improve. Yeah. And I think at the end, maybe it helped also that I would say all three of us are not super emotional people.

[00:21:34] So they were all like interested in reaching the higher goal and we're like putting personal issues a bit aside sometimes. So I think that also helped us. Yeah.

[00:21:45] Yeah. Having everybody buy into a common goal is critical, isn't it? And so did you articulate all of that early on? I mean, or did it just kind of evolve? Because I know a lot of times it's, you know, founders are very specific about having written documents, contracts, that sort of thing.

[00:22:04] Other times it's a friendship that evolves and there's a mutual respect and these things just kind of work themselves out over time. Do you have thoughts on that or an experience around what you did that you'd be willing to share?

[00:22:14] I think it has developed into something over time. So on the one side, I think we became friends pretty early when founding the company. And then also, I think everybody was also willing to let's say at a professional side to things.

[00:22:30] So for example, early on we joined like the EO network. So entrepreneurial organization and they have local chapters where you just have chats with other founders and share experiences. And they have really nice friends who are really open to you know, share experiences with you.

[00:22:46] And we all basically went there with a different chapter for a while and I think everybody could or everyone there could really develop. And I think this is something that we've been working on for a long time.

[00:23:02] We had really good business angels, especially early on. There was one guy, the main business angel I would say that was experienced founder himself and really gave us great operational tips.

[00:23:18] Yeah. So yeah, what you're referring to there is mentorship and smart money, right? Getting money from people that can actually add value. And in this case, we have a lot of people that are really interested in getting money from people that can actually add value.

[00:23:34] And in this case, someone who could coach and mentor and had walked the path that you were walking before. It kind of leads me to questions about money and funding.

[00:23:39] Yeah. Building a software based company can be a pretty complex process.

[00:23:44] And sort of accompanying that question is ownership and how you actually build your business.

[00:23:51] And then your investors, obviously when you brought in the investors and you had some of the people that you were talking to, you had some of the people that you were talking to that you were talking to.

[00:24:01] So how did you and your team approach slicing up the proverbial pie?

[00:24:07] And sort of accompanying that question is ownership and how you and your team and then your investors, obviously when you brought in the investors and you had to start thinking about ownership.

[00:24:24] So how did you and your team approach slicing up the proverbial pie, so to speak, and shares of ownership?

[00:24:34] And how did you approach that to prepare yourself so that you'd be ready to raise money as well?

[00:24:41] I know there's a lot in there.

[00:24:44] Yes. So do you have specific aspects I should dive into?

[00:24:49] Well, let's start with how did you make decisions about ownership among the founders?

[00:24:57] Was that just a conversation you had and did you have a basis for the decisions you made there?

[00:25:05] You mean like topic ownerships, right? Or company ownership?

[00:25:09] Yeah. So you started with two founders and perhaps it was 50-50 and then you brought in another and you also maybe by the time you brought in your third one, you had investors.

[00:25:21] So that can get complicated.

[00:25:24] So I don't know if you've got any any insights to share on things you might have learned from that experience or best practice, so to speak.

[00:25:34] I'm sure there are people that are better in this, but I can definitely share what we have done.

[00:25:40] So at the beginning, we said, okay, we're all starting this company, the three of us.

[00:25:45] We will all basically commit our time at the beginning.

[00:25:49] All three of us, we had no real money basically to start a company with.

[00:25:54] So we all said, okay, what we invest is our time and we will all invest the same time.

[00:25:59] So we will all get the same shares. That was the starting condition.

[00:26:04] So we all had our 33 point something percentage.

[00:26:08] And then later on, the first business business angels got a small stack.

[00:26:15] And then later on, we added some more business angels coming from the same group of angels.

[00:26:20] So they all knew each other.

[00:26:22] That's potentially something I also would always recommend if you have a lot of investors, then make sure they connect and know each other.

[00:26:32] Otherwise, you potentially have an issue there.

[00:26:36] If they are not well with each other and they start to fight, you have to manage their communication and everything.

[00:26:42] And then it becomes painful.

[00:26:44] At the end, I think what you want is an investor that if you ask for help, they're willing to help and have a great advice.

[00:26:51] If you don't ask, ideally they're silent and just let you do your job that I think is the perfect investor.

[00:26:56] And luckily we had this group of people there behind us.

[00:27:02] And through the business angels, basically at the end, we also made it into a seed funding that was coming from a VC here in Germany.

[00:27:11] Yeah, that's a great answer.

[00:27:16] And it gets to the complication sometimes that you run into.

[00:27:21] I know working with entrepreneurs, I've seen issues with too many investors and the amount of time that has to be spent.

[00:27:30] And especially if investors are unsophisticated, meaning they don't understand your space or how to invest in startups.

[00:27:38] And so it sounds like you've managed that well.

[00:27:42] Money is always a big challenge for building software.

[00:27:47] You brought in someone who could actually invest time to build software, which is a great strategy rather than necessarily having to go buy it or hire someone.

[00:27:58] Could you talk a little bit about your company's evolution, how you started, how it's grown and how the software has developed?

[00:28:08] I'll add one more comment before I turn it over to you.

[00:28:12] I started a software company myself back in the early 2000s.

[00:28:18] It was a very different time then.

[00:28:21] But I call it the Goldilocks experience.

[00:28:24] I don't know if you've ever heard that story, but the first software we built didn't do enough.

[00:28:28] The second did far too much.

[00:28:30] And it was the third time around after we had spent a whole lot of money.

[00:28:34] But neither of us were technical.

[00:28:37] So neither my partner nor I.

[00:28:39] So even understanding how to communicate with somebody to build software, we didn't have a clue.

[00:28:45] So it took us a lot of money and a lot of time to build what we were building.

[00:28:51] So I'm just curious about your experience with your software and how that's evolved over the years.

[00:28:56] Yeah, three really cool stories.

[00:28:59] No, I think it took us also a lot of money and a lot of time.

[00:29:06] So I'm not sure if it's not always the case with software.

[00:29:09] Probably.

[00:29:10] But I mean, on the one side talking about the co-founders, we said we need somebody that really understands if the people that we are hiring,

[00:29:20] let's say hiring, or if you work with subcontractors or so, talk bullshit or not.

[00:29:26] Otherwise, you are lost.

[00:29:28] And so you need a person that really can supervise them.

[00:29:31] And that was clear from the beginning.

[00:29:34] Also, it was very clear to us that we need to be able to provide and build kind of a prototype of a beta version our own with very little money.

[00:29:43] So we said the best way to get there is, of course, to have somebody that's really like a software developer.

[00:29:48] Plus, my co-founder that is also on the other side, like really firm with design and usability on all of those things.

[00:29:55] So it worked out quite well.

[00:29:57] And then the story of Fisich is at the beginning, we had this insight from my co-founder producing videos, right?

[00:30:05] For clients, he said, actually what I love doing is creating great videos and advertising for my clients.

[00:30:12] I love it.

[00:30:14] What I hate doing is spending 50% of my work time talking to my customers, understanding what I need to change and basically reading the change requests and managing that.

[00:30:27] And he had also an insight from a film production firm he worked at that they figured out this is a real issue also for their clients and their employees.

[00:30:37] So we said, OK, this seems to be an issue.

[00:30:39] Let's explore this.

[00:30:40] And what we did then, I think we ran 20, 30 interviews with freelance video producers, film production firms, advertising agencies, trying to understand how they share their files,

[00:30:54] how they get feedback from their clients, understanding what kind of tools they are using right now, understanding what really annoys them.

[00:31:02] That was the first thing.

[00:31:04] And then based on that, we started to create mock-ups, prototypes and the starting idea of Fisich was then, OK, we built a tool where you can share a video.

[00:31:14] And in this video, the other one can just add any kind of comment within the video visually.

[00:31:22] And today it sounds a bit like, OK, this is something most of the tools can do.

[00:31:27] But in 2014-15, this was quite an amazing new feature in terms of, hey, you can share a video, watch it and then directly comment into a video.

[00:31:34] Great.

[00:31:35] And it was the starting point.

[00:31:37] And then we continued basically talking to our early customers and users and always said, OK, this is what we are doing right now.

[00:31:46] And this is what we have in mind.

[00:31:48] What other things can we do?

[00:31:49] And then we kept showing prototypes, mock-ups and constantly asked for feedback.

[00:31:55] And I think over time, we developed a habit of being a feedback company.

[00:32:00] And that's, I think, what we still are.

[00:32:02] So we have professionalized it, of course.

[00:32:04] So we have using another software that helps us to collect all the feature requests and categorize and prioritize and everything.

[00:32:11] But we are still trying to get as much feedback as possible from the customers and then build something that really helps them till today.

[00:32:20] And I mean, now we had this evolution from being a video commenting tool, very simple, super narrow into a VR tool that can be used by advertising agencies to share any kind of content and get feedback to being a tool that is now used by big brands basically to manage all their models.

[00:32:41] And then we have some marketing campaigns with different advertising agencies.

[00:32:44] So we have, for example, LG and Sixth and Capri Sun and Group M and Sharp and quite some good names today.

[00:32:52] But it was a process from, yeah, again, video freelancers to big brands.

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:59] That's a great story.

[00:33:01] I love that you shared a few examples because I wonder if you could give us an even more specific story of how a customer has used FileStage because it sounds like this is an evolving product, which I love.

[00:33:21] And I love that you're a feedback company and that you're practicing.

[00:33:25] I mean, those are all the things that I teach as an entrepreneurship educator.

[00:33:30] You've got to get it out there.

[00:33:31] You've got to get people using it and you've got to get feedback.

[00:33:34] But could you give us an example of or two a little bit more specific of how people use that FileStage?

[00:33:40] Definitely. Yeah.

[00:33:43] And also to pick it up, I think the biggest thing at the beginning is to be very open in terms of this is what we can do and this is what we want to do.

[00:33:53] And I'm happy about any kind of feedback you have, but please don't expect it to be there tomorrow.

[00:33:58] But maybe in the month ahead and the managing expectations is the difficult one, I think.

[00:34:03] And building trust with the people.

[00:34:06] And to give you a precise example is let's take a company.

[00:34:12] Not allowed to say the name, but let's take it.

[00:34:15] So let's say you have a marketing team in a brand and they are producing a product that will be released in multiple stores in different countries.

[00:34:26] So, for example, there's one product that you can buy in the store.

[00:34:29] So let's say Home Depot or something.

[00:34:31] You can buy the product from them, but you can also buy this in the U.S.

[00:34:35] You can buy it in Sweden.

[00:34:37] You can buy it in France.

[00:34:38] You can buy it in 20 different countries.

[00:34:40] The marketing team has the challenge that they need to create the product packaging for this product and need to make sure it fits with the regulations of every single market.

[00:34:50] So in the U.S., you have other regulations and claims and disclaimers that need to be on top of your product in Sweden.

[00:34:58] And now you have to make sure all of this is running.

[00:35:01] This is reviewed.

[00:35:03] This is on point.

[00:35:05] At the same time, you want to make sure the marketing itself is on brand so that it's still looking like your brand, your product.

[00:35:14] But you also need to localize it to local markets.

[00:35:17] So U.S. people want to see different things than Swedish people on a product and all that stuff.

[00:35:24] So that's just one example, for example, in the direction of product packaging could be the same thing with a website you want to launch or a social media campaign and advertising.

[00:35:34] So basically everything where you create content that needs to influence people at the end, ideally in an international environment where you sometimes have, let's say, to face regulations and compliance.

[00:35:47] That's now our sweet spot.

[00:35:49] Yeah.

[00:35:52] You know, and we live in a world I'm listening to you talk.

[00:35:55] I mean, it hits home for virtually every company almost because we're not isolated because of the Internet.

[00:36:03] Right.

[00:36:04] And I worked for many years in Cincinnati, which is home of Procter & Gamble.

[00:36:10] And of course, they've been doing this kind of thing for many, many years.

[00:36:14] And I think that's a great way to get people to know that you're not isolated.

[00:36:19] So I'm very curious about your thoughts about how artificial intelligence is changing everything for all of us.

[00:36:26] And I think that's a great question.

[00:36:29] I mean, I think that's a great question.

[00:36:32] I think that's a great question.

[00:36:34] I think that maybe not correctly, that artificial intelligence is a part of what you do.

[00:36:41] So I'm very curious about your thoughts about how artificial intelligence is changing everything for all of us and what the opportunities are and what it means for companies even like yours.

[00:36:56] Yeah, I think thanks for bringing up the topic.

[00:36:59] It's definitely top of mind right now for our company and I think for all the companies out there.

[00:37:04] But for us, I think it's exciting times.

[00:37:07] I mean, on the one side, we all know every two years there's a new technology or trend and then everybody feels like, oh, this is something we need to do like blockchain or whatever.

[00:37:17] But for AI, I really have the feeling that this is a true game changer for all the companies out there and really will change the way how we work more than every other trend in the last 20 years.

[00:37:32] So for me, it's same size, for example, like the Internet that has started something.

[00:37:38] And now I think we are starting something new for five stage.

[00:37:42] What does it mean?

[00:37:44] I think on the one side, you have to understand that every year more and more content is produced.

[00:37:51] So since beginning of the Internet, every year more and more content is produced basically to attract people to buy stuff.

[00:37:58] So, aka advertising and all kind of content around it every year, more and more.

[00:38:04] And now with AI, you will see even more content.

[00:38:08] You will see like a content explosion, I think, because you don't even need the technical skills to produce a video anymore or a great image or something.

[00:38:17] You just need to feed like a prompt into a tool and then you get it.

[00:38:21] You don't need to swing your camera and whatever.

[00:38:25] That's on the one side.

[00:38:27] So more content, bigger volumes, all of that.

[00:38:30] Then on the other side, somebody needs to make sure this content is still great.

[00:38:36] And if you are a marketing professional or a brand manager, you need to make sure this content is representing your brand properly.

[00:38:44] So it's on brand.

[00:38:45] And basically there are no, on the one side, easy mistakes in it.

[00:38:50] You need to make sure that basically resonates well with your target audience and all that.

[00:38:54] So basically you're looking at so much more content to review and somebody needs to make sure the quality is still right.

[00:39:01] And with Firestage, we are focusing pretty much on this aspect of things.

[00:39:05] So making sure that yes, you produce more content, make it please more efficiently is great.

[00:39:10] But we make sure that you can also guarantee the quality and that you can also guarantee that this content is on brand.

[00:39:18] It's basically compliant with every regulations you're following.

[00:39:22] So this is what we do in a nutshell already.

[00:39:25] And we give our users already a lot of possibilities to automate parts of it and make sure it doesn't steal too much of your valuable time to review things.

[00:39:37] And this is also where AI comes into place.

[00:39:41] So what we believe is that yes, right now reviews are pretty much human driven, partly automated.

[00:39:48] In future reviews will very much be AI driven.

[00:39:53] So there will be an AI bot in Firestage making sure your content is on brand and will detect issues where the logos may be wrong or the images are wrong and will tell you.

[00:40:03] And then as the second step, you will still be there as a kind of AI supervisor, aka the brand manager, making sure the AI is doing the right job.

[00:40:14] But it's less about, you know, like every single review that you are doing it yourself.

[00:40:19] And that's like where we are.

[00:40:21] Yeah, I was just about to ask, does it eliminate the human review?

[00:40:25] But it doesn't really.

[00:40:27] It eliminates the investment time, the time invested, the time and energy invested for the human review, because hopefully that AI review is going to get it.

[00:40:40] You know, it's going to catch all the simple routine kinds of things, I guess, if I'm getting it right.

[00:40:47] Yeah, I think that's the idea.

[00:40:48] At the moment, I think we're aiming for something to filter out 80, 90 percent of the common issues, right?

[00:40:54] And then there are still things where human are better and need to oversee things.

[00:41:00] And I think also at the end, even let's say the AI is so good that there's barely anything in it.

[00:41:07] I think we will still go for a long time through a period where human needs to supervise it.

[00:41:12] And looking at current trends in AI regulation, I would also say that potentially it will stay like this because it's a regulation that you need to follow.

[00:41:23] Right, right.

[00:41:26] Well, there's we could probably talk for another hour or two about AI because there's so much fascinating, so much going on.

[00:41:33] But I could see where it's going to be an integral part of what you're doing and as well as everything that we're all doing.

[00:41:40] You know, I look at AI now as another graduate assistant that I have. Right.

[00:41:45] You know, they can do a lot of the work that I might have given to a grad assistant.

[00:41:50] So I'm really curious about you've given me a lot of insight into, you know, AI.

[00:41:57] Where else is is file stage headed like, you know, somebody that might be interested in using it and, you know, understanding a little bit more about it?

[00:42:07] You know, what's your future look like for the company?

[00:42:11] So at the end, I yeah, maybe, maybe to explain we're looking at the product and then, yeah, it's a content value chain.

[00:42:21] So I always start and say, OK, it somehow it starts right.

[00:42:26] Somebody starts with content creation and content planning.

[00:42:29] That's typically the starting point.

[00:42:31] And most people in marketing know exactly, OK, I start this in Photoshop.

[00:42:36] I start this in another software.

[00:42:38] This is my starting point where I produce content.

[00:42:41] And for example, I start my presentations in PowerPoint and over time.

[00:42:46] I think what we see in a business is that more and more employees, not just the marketing teams also produce content.

[00:42:54] And, yeah, basically nowadays, I think everybody is a bit like a content producer because you just have the tools at hand.

[00:43:01] You produce social media and post or something in this direction and create a great like photo for it or something.

[00:43:08] So more and more people are basically also content creators.

[00:43:12] That's the one side of things that's again content explosion.

[00:43:16] And then on the other side, we see the big trend that people want to understand and ideally predict what kind of content will perform well and what kind of content do I need to produce more?

[00:43:28] What's worth the effort?

[00:43:30] And today we have many different stakeholders, players that need to be aligned around this.

[00:43:38] So there is the content designer, there's the film producer, there's the advertising agency.

[00:43:43] There is the lawyer working, working on the regulation side.

[00:43:48] There's the marketer, there's the CEO.

[00:43:50] Many, many different stakeholders need to work and then play together.

[00:43:54] And with Firestage, our vision is basically to simplify this process for everybody involved in content creation and make sure it is a frictionless, painless, smooth, even fun review and approval experience that also is fully documented.

[00:44:12] So, aka at the end you don't run into any legal issues and process issues in the company.

[00:44:20] So that's our aim.

[00:44:22] So if I think about, you know, I'm at a university right now and the university has a central office that tries to manage all of the brand for the university.

[00:44:34] But you've got every department, every professor, even students, you know, and student workers out there posting, sharing videos where if I'm understanding you correctly, FileShare can help that organization.

[00:44:50] Yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, FileStage.

[00:44:54] Yeah, sorry about that.

[00:44:56] Sorry about that.

[00:44:57] FileStage can help.

[00:44:59] Good catch on that brand.

[00:45:02] FileStage can help ensure that the videos going out, you know, fit the brand model for the organization.

[00:45:12] I could see that.

[00:45:13] Yeah, that's a great, I think that's a great vision and could be very helpful.

[00:45:19] I don't know if you've even worked with universities, but I could see universities benefiting from that sort of thing.

[00:45:24] Interestingly, we have quite a bunch of American universities, especially working with FileStage.

[00:45:31] So I can't tell you the names exactly because this is a sales manager managing it.

[00:45:36] Yeah, recently we have definitely something and I think also, yeah, mainly American universities because I think they also are more aware of brand and producing content and all that stuff.

[00:45:51] And I think especially German universities are in this direction, maybe still a bit more old school.

[00:45:56] But there we see definitely a big demand.

[00:45:58] And as you said, maybe one department needs to align things with different other stakeholders that are, I mean, the university at the end is also kind of a remote company, right?

[00:46:08] So people are working from everywhere and sometimes out there.

[00:46:11] So yes, definitely.

[00:46:13] Yeah, it's always a challenge because you've got a lot of people marching to a lot of different drums and trying to keep that all in line is challenging.

[00:46:24] Yeah, you know, I love what you're doing and I think it's really exciting to see what FileStage is doing.

[00:46:30] The company has grown tremendously, right?

[00:46:33] How many customers do you have now or what's the stage of growth that you're in?

[00:46:39] We have almost 900 customers worldwide.

[00:46:43] Yeah, like I said, companies like Sharp Group, Emirates, Lufthansa, B-Bron.

[00:46:49] Yeah, even Sports Club and a very large soccer association.

[00:46:54] I'm not allowed to name.

[00:46:56] That's fine.

[00:46:58] Yeah, so quite a bunch of customers and then over 20,000 active users using it basically daily to manage their file sharing and approval process.

[00:47:10] Well, it's really fun to hear your story.

[00:47:15] And I know you've worked very hard and built this company over the last nine years along with your co-founders.

[00:47:22] I'm curious before we wrap up, I'm curious if there were times when you thought this company might not make it or you had failures or challenges that kept you up at night.

[00:47:37] I know that's a rhetorical question because I'm sure you've been up at night worrying about things.

[00:47:43] But, you know, resilience and executing past failure is a big part of being successful as an entrepreneur.

[00:47:50] So I wonder if you would be willing to share anything about your experience with dealing with challenges and failure along the way.

[00:47:59] I can tell you that I'm very relieved that, let's say the tough times financially are over.

[00:48:06] So in the meantime, with Firestitch we're even profitable.

[00:48:10] So we also had a major shift from burning lots of cash after getting an investment to becoming more efficient and now being profitable for the first time in 23.

[00:48:21] So it was quite a relief.

[00:48:24] But especially the early days, I remember that those sleepless nights and months where I really was like, OK, I need to close a customer this week and next week and the week after.

[00:48:39] And if I don't do it, then we are busted.

[00:48:43] And it was really like the first two years, I would say, until we got the close the first seed round with a VC.

[00:48:51] But before that, it was really like, OK, sell it, make it or you die.

[00:48:56] And the good thing what helped me and us, I think at the beginning is that we were used to work to not earn lots of money.

[00:49:03] So we really were like bootstirped at the beginning.

[00:49:06] I think paid us maybe $500 a month for something to just survive.

[00:49:11] And all the rest was like, OK, let's stay in the company.

[00:49:16] Yeah, until the point we secured the first seed round, I think that was really, really tough.

[00:49:20] And yeah, also, I think had had a hard time sometimes to really get find my sleep and come down.

[00:49:29] Yeah, yeah. But there's always there's always a lesson in that.

[00:49:35] And, you know, building a company is never easy.

[00:49:39] And I think it's you know, you mentioned earlier that you joined some organizations where you had other entrepreneurs to talk to.

[00:49:48] And I always think it's helpful for people that are out there maybe listening to this and they're going through that sleepless night stage to know that that there is hope.

[00:49:59] You know, you can learn a lot along the way and there is hope at the end.

[00:50:03] Yes. Now I have also sleepless nights, but that's because of my babysitter.

[00:50:08] And then there is the whole balance thing, right?

[00:50:11] You know, being an entrepreneur and being a parent and a spouse is in a family, having a family and other interests.

[00:50:20] You know, I hear most people say there's very little balance when you're building a company.

[00:50:24] Yeah, I think that's that's also the hardest one.

[00:50:27] So to really manage proper me time, time with my wife, time for kids, balance it against time for the business and all that.

[00:50:37] So it becomes tougher.

[00:50:39] And that's also the thing you can only you only know how it is when you have kids.

[00:50:46] So before I was also like, come on, OK, it's a tough week.

[00:50:49] And then the weekend I can relax and I was good.

[00:50:53] And now I really feel like the struggle many, many parents face when they still want to work and perform at work at the same time

[00:51:00] and then want to be a good dad or mom at the same time.

[00:51:03] So that's that's challenging. Definitely.

[00:51:05] It is. But it's all worthwhile and all rewarding and all a part of what we do to build the life that we want.

[00:51:13] So if if I were to ask you if you had advice, one piece of advice for our listeners before we before we wrap up, Nicholas, what would that be?

[00:51:23] I know you've already given us so much insight and and it's been a great conversation.

[00:51:28] But what would that one piece of advice be that you would give to somebody that might be wanting to follow in this path or might be out there right now?

[00:51:35] Can I give two?

[00:51:37] You can give two. I love it.

[00:51:39] On the one side, try to find a mentor early on.

[00:51:44] That was the most helpful thing and mentor.

[00:51:47] I mean, not a consultant that never ran a company.

[00:51:50] So mentor for me would always be an experienced founder that started something from scratch and try to have this person at your side.

[00:52:00] This is the most most helpful thing I think you can have.

[00:52:06] Yeah, just save so much time and and avoiding mistakes and all that.

[00:52:11] And then on the other side with our seed round, I'm sorry, I think one of the mistakes we did or something I would change definitely is to hire less people, but pay more and go for the really good ones.

[00:52:26] So a small elite team rather than a bigger team with, I don't know, at the beginning we even had lots of working students and so on.

[00:52:34] And that was definitely, I think, costed us some some time and yeah, headspace.

[00:52:43] That is both of those are fantastic.

[00:52:46] And the one about hiring fewer but better people, the thing that people don't realize often is that every person you hire takes a lot of your time.

[00:52:58] Exactly. Right? Yes.

[00:53:00] And so getting the right people early and the best people is scary because you got to pay them more as you said.

[00:53:09] So great. Both of those are great pieces of advice.

[00:53:12] Really appreciate your time and sharing your story.

[00:53:16] Everything about your journey has been amazing and interesting to hear, Nicholas.

[00:53:22] And I'm very excited to learn more about FileStage and I wish you and your team the best.

[00:53:27] Where can our listeners find out more about FileStage, maybe connect with you?

[00:53:33] Just, you know, where would that be?

[00:53:35] Yeah, ideally on the one side. Yes. On FileStage.io.

[00:53:39] That's our website. Of course you can use the product also for free.

[00:53:42] There's a free version.

[00:53:44] If you are also in the software space, we're also looking for software partners.

[00:53:50] So if you're interested in partnering with us, you can also reach out.

[00:53:53] And last but not least on LinkedIn, I'm very active on LinkedIn.

[00:53:58] Nicholas Dorn at DORN. You will find me there and can just add me.

[00:54:04] Wonderful. Thank you again, Nicholas.

[00:54:07] And best wishes to you and your new family, your young family and to your company.

[00:54:13] It's been great talking with you.

[00:54:15] Thanks a lot for having me and to love your questions.

[00:54:18] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to learn more about entrepreneurship, we would love it if you hit that subscribe button.

[00:54:27] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of InFactor.