Unleashing Opportunity: Building Community in The Pet Industry with Terry James

[00:00:00] And so for us, when we got into off-leash, it was like, how do we expand the tent? How do we bring access to pet parenthood to more families? How do we solve some of these big issues or at least attempt to? And these big issues we look at is, you know, housing insecurity and food insecurity and financial insecurity that oftentimes is that barrier between more pet parents deciding I want to, you know, I want to get a pet because they're concerned about those things. And it leaves more dogs or more cats or more animals in the world.

[00:00:30] We say, listen, I think we could do something about that. I think we could have it be a part of that solution because we know of all the benefits, right? We know that when pets are involved in your life, people live longer, they're happier, they're less stressed. There's all of these health benefits that really impact, could impact, have a higher impact on certain communities as well that are oftentimes economically underserviced in those areas that if pets could be that linchpin that say more pets equals more happiness equals better.

[00:01:00] Better communities and better communities and better connection, then we could be really doing something here transformational, right? Welcome to En Factor Podcast, conversations with entrepreneurs who started, stumbled, and succeeded. I'm your host, Dr. Rebecca White, and I'm really pleased that you decided to join me for today's conversation.

[00:01:24] This is a really, really special one. I know I was inspired by the conversation, and it's partly because of the creativity and innovation and the power of purpose that I heard through this conversation. Our guest is not just building a company. He is building something in response to something that affects us all, the epidemic of loneliness.

[00:01:51] And here's the really interesting part. He is using the most unconditional creatures on the planet, our pets, to do something about it.

[00:02:04] Today's episode, we bring in Terry James. He spent 25 years as an elite wealth manager at some of the most respected institutions in the world before making a decision that probably surprised everyone who knew him.

[00:02:22] He walked away from that career to become a tech entrepreneur and community builder and to start not one, but two brands that are reshaping the pet industry and what it means to be a pet parent today in America. He is co-founder and CEO of Off Leashed, the social app that is bringing pet parents together through friendships, live events, and real community.

[00:02:50] He and his partners have also started a company called Nibble and Wag, and it's an affordable premium dog food brand. They decided to start this because they heard from many pet parents that it was getting too expensive to be able to afford to pay for a premium dog food, a healthy dog food for their pet.

[00:03:16] Add in Eve AI, a pet specific artificial intelligent agent that lives inside the app. And you begin to understand that Terry is not thinking small. This is a great conversation. You're going to love it.

[00:03:35] It's about purpose-driven entrepreneurship, about listening deeply to a community before building a product, by going all in, and about the power of hard work. I'm so excited for you to share in his powerful story with me today. So let's listen in to this conversation with Terry James.

[00:04:05] Terry, thank you for joining me today on The InFactor. Thank you so much for having me, Rebecca. Yeah, I'm really excited to get you on the show. I'm really curious about your background, your business. I think it's a really cool concept. I love pets, and it's a huge industry. But let's get started so our listeners know exactly what you do. So let's start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about Off-Leashed and your business. Yes.

[00:04:33] I know you've got multiple brands going. So in a nutshell, what do you do as an entrepreneur? Thank you so much. Yeah, so we, I'm an avid pet person myself. So a few years back, we had this idea that could we figure out a way to help people connect through their love of pets. So we started this social app called Off-Leashed that really focuses on just that, right? Helping people connect at the very core level with pets as a driving force.

[00:04:58] So whether you're looking to make new friends, find love, join the community, or go to live events, that's what Off-Leashed is all about. So we originally launched in Seattle, Washington, moved down to California in Los Angeles area in 2024, and then launched in San Diego in 2025. And we're really now in about 42 states and about 66 cities.

[00:05:24] So people's love for pets is nationwide, and we love to help people do that and be a part of that. Yeah, absolutely. So talk us through what your brands actually do. So you've got an app, which I think it's really interesting. Yes. But the philosophy for it really comes from this idea that there's a lot of loneliness in the world, quite honestly.

[00:05:45] I mean, I think the pandemic showed us all that there was this massive epidemic of loneliness where people were just disconnected from each other, really weren't connecting, and were really almost oftentimes behind their screens. But we saw with the pandemic is that people had this escalation, if you will, of pet ownership, right? And people were looking to find that companionship through their pets. And really this evolution of how pets kind of fit into our lives. They're no longer just like a pet ownership relationship. It's more of a family member.

[00:06:15] And that humanization of pets has really taken hold, where they're a core function of what we do and how we function on a daily part of our lives. But the need for that authentic human connection still remained, right? People still needed to find ways to search for commonality.

[00:06:32] And what you find, you know, domestically, there's about 300 million plus people that are on social apps trying to find some ways to connect with people, whether that be for love, whether they be for friendship, whether it be for some kind of shared commonality. And the average person spends about 8,000 swipes or opportunities to find a match or connection to find someone. And we said, listen, there was nothing in the marketplace that focused on helping people connect through pets.

[00:07:00] Because pets have this unique way of bringing people together so holistically and authentically. You know, you might go to a dog park and never have a conversation with someone that maybe you normally would never talk to. But that dog and that pet is that instant commonality. Because what's shared across lines, no matter where you're from, especially if you're a pet person, you all want the same things. You want your pet to be happy. You want them to be healthy. You know the unconditional love that they provide.

[00:07:29] And then there's this unique way that pets bring us together. I always like to say that pets don't see race. They don't see socioeconomic background. All they do is love, right? And so we felt if we could bring more of that into the world and more of this opportunity to find community and connection, that we could really build something. And, you know, people who have found our platform and have found our social app feel the same way, right?

[00:07:54] They're there searching for that connection, searching for that community on a very hyper-localized way. And Off Leashed provides them that platform to be able to do so. So I love this because I know even from my neighborhood, if I'm out walking and somebody's walking their dog, I can't not stop. I have to stop and talk to the dog, which then means I often talk to the dog owner, of course. Right.

[00:08:18] We have this running joke that oftentimes people will know the dog's names in their community and not the parents' names sometimes, right? Because, you know, we're out there, oh, this is Bubbles or Solo or Bean or whatever that may be. We know the pets' names and then it takes us a little time to know the pet parent's name. But it's a real way of just finding that connection and commonality, even if it's for a few minutes. They give us this opportunity to find a sense of connection, a sense of community.

[00:08:46] And we felt it was super important to help people connect along those lines. I love it. I love it. So you must have a couple of really good connection stories that, like, keep you going. Do you have a really – you don't have to share names or anything, but do you have one or two that you share? I mean, I think authentically we've found people that are in our community that said they found their best friends, right? They found their network. And sometimes, you know, listen, love matches don't always happen on our app, of course. And friendships don't always happen.

[00:09:16] But what normally happens is that the pets have this way of finding each other, right? So even if maybe the people aren't a match, oftentimes the pets are, and it makes it really easy. So every time someone is making a connection or building a new community or finding a playgroup or finding their person, pets make it very easy for us to do that, right? So one of the biggest things that we focus on, it's not just about the app.

[00:09:42] It's about getting in person with other people that have this shared commonality with you, right? So if we host an event, what you'll find is maybe 50, 7,500 people will show up with their pets. And you have all these people making new friends, right? Whether it's a mini Schnauzer group or a Rottweiler group or what have you. People that have that share passion and then they'll show up at an event and they'll have a whole new friend of communities. I think it's just as important for people to connect online.

[00:10:09] We want to make people easy to do that and to find each other, but then to get from behind the screen and actually meeting each other in person because that authentic human connection is so, so important. And that's what we focus on with our platform. Yeah. It's not anything I had to deal with when I was young and maybe you as well, but we live in a world now where that technology connection is taking over and taking the place of in person.

[00:10:37] And it just feels so different. So if I come on your app and I'm looking around, it's kind of like it's localized, right? It's hyper-localized, yes. So you can set your location settings to be within 50 miles of you. So you get on, you build a profile for you and your pet. So your pet's got their own pet wall. You post funny photos and all those things. And you tell us about your pet. And then that's when the algorithm goes to work, right?

[00:11:06] So it's trying to authentically connect you with people that are going to be a match for you, right? Similar compatibility and interests, like if you're an avid hiker, you go on dog walks or whatever that may be, that you find people that are like yourself and compatible pets as well. That's how we got our global patent on our matchmaking algorithm that says we're taking into account not only human traits, but that those traits of the pet as well to make sure that you have a good and authentic connection.

[00:11:33] And then once you're matched and connected with someone, right, you have an opportunity through the app of getting on a live virtual call just like this where we can talk, we can have yappy hours, we can do all those kind of fun things to get to know each other and then find a way to meet in person, right? And so even though most of our events right now are on the West Coast, our goal with, you know, we're in a capital raise right now. So our goal with this raise is so that we can have physical boots on the ground in more cities across the country, right?

[00:12:02] We want to be hosting events in all the major cities where you have lots of pet parents. You have a lot of people that are going to be in that age demographic of who the new pet parents are and give them opportunities to connect with each other. That's very cool. You know, I'm looking at you now and I'm guessing it's your office. You've got grind, execution and hustle behind you, right? Yes, yes. Absolutely. These are some photos of people that are actually come to our events, right? Real people with their pets actually enjoying each other.

[00:12:32] They're enjoying the space in real life. That's very cool. So those verbs behind you, grind, execution and hustle. You didn't start out as an entrepreneur, right? You started out on Wall Street. Is that right? Or maybe you were an entrepreneur as a kid and then found your way to Wall Street. So let's talk about that. Where does Terry James come from and what was the path to being an entrepreneur? So my father was an entrepreneur. He owned a small janitorial company in Las Vegas, Nevada. My mother was a school teacher, right?

[00:13:01] So they always made you believe that anything was possible in terms of that. So when, you know, going to college and getting out of college, I got an opportunity to work for Morgan Stanley as a registered investment advisor and financial advisor. I had a team and went to UBS Werber. And so when you think about planning, it's for most people, it's their single biggest asset. And I got an opportunity to learn about all the things, you know, you don't get necessarily exposed to as a kid coming from my neighborhood.

[00:13:30] But what that did is that it gave me a passion that I could do more and I could do certain things that I could help, you know, different communities and different people differently. So I left the investment, the wealth management world and started a mortgage company. My company was called Care and Lending. We built a pretty big firm there that was kind of all over the Seattle area. I sold my company and then got into the larger real estate world.

[00:13:54] What our focus on with our mortgage company is that we knew that we were giving people the single biggest liability they would ever have tied to their single biggest asset for most people was their home. And we knew that we could focus on bringing access and opportunity to more communities. So that's what we focused on. And I brought a lot of people in from the non-traditional, you know, mortgage backgrounds, right? People that were wealth managers like myself, people that were CPAs, people that were attorneys, people that were estate planners.

[00:14:21] Because I felt that we needed to change our approach and our way that we looked at liability management from a mortgage side. I left that and got into the traditional real estate business and continued to build a business there and eventually started a construction and development company. And started to build homes and developments and communities in some of the areas that sometimes were underserved, underserved communities and those types of things. And really tried to build affordable housing throughout the Seattle area.

[00:14:49] So, you know, I call myself a chronic entrepreneur. But for me, it's really about trying to make an impact and saying, you know, what could my life mean? And could I do more? And could I try more and do things at certain places that normally maybe you wouldn't find me doing it? And that's kind of what got me into the pet business, right? In the same kind of path, you know, for me, I feel like everything is built upon each other.

[00:15:12] From wealth management to mortgage lending to real estate and real estate investment and development and construction. It's created this well-rounded, you know, deep understanding of business, of people, of connection, of need. And then being able to say, what could we do next? And for me, I've always wanted to have, though I've been super passionate about real estate and the wealth management side of the world. Really, my core passion is about people and bringing people together, whatever that may be.

[00:15:42] But for me, I love pets. And I remember my business partner, my COO, Jeff Brown. We had this conversation and he was talking about, why did you, why are you so passionate about pets? What is it about this that made you do something different, right? And I think about the earliest stories of my life. And, you know, grew up in maybe not the best neighborhood growing up. And so I was a latchkey kid. So I'd come home every day, get off the bus and go in.

[00:16:07] And my dog, Jumbo, was my place of safety before my parents got home from work. And so I'd walk in and my little half Maltese, half Terrier dog with his little pink nose would come running to me. And, you know, we'd sit there, make, you know, put some food on and watch cartoons until my family got home. But he was my place of respite. And you think about how important those little instances and those memories are towards everything you do in life. And I didn't even realize it until we went through this process of discovering what's our why behind this, right?

[00:16:37] And I know how important pets are to people. And I know how important pets were to me. And I know how important they've been to our family. So why shouldn't every family have the same chances to do that as I did? To experience that love, right? And so for us, when we got into off-leash, it was like, how do we expand the tent? How do we bring access to pet parenthood to more families? How do we solve some of these big issues or at least attempt to?

[00:17:02] And these big issues we look at is, you know, housing insecurity and food insecurity and financial insecurity. That oftentimes is that barrier between more pet parents deciding, I want to, you know, I want to get a pet because they're concerned about those things. And it leaves more dogs or more cats or more animals in the shelter. And we say, listen, I think we could do something about that. I think we could have a, be a part of that solution because we know of all the benefits, right?

[00:17:28] We know that when pets are involved in your life, people live longer, they're happier, they're less stressed. There's all of these health benefits that really impact, could impact, have a higher impact on certain communities as well that are oftentimes economically underserviced in those areas. That if pets could be that linchpin that say more pets equals more happiness equals better communities and better connection, then we could be really doing something here transformational, right? And so that's how I look at it.

[00:17:58] And that's why this is so important to me and it's so important to our brand. It really kind of drives the mission behind everything that we do. I love that. And, you know, I know, you know, this, this is designed for pet owners, but what if I am not a pet owner or I feel like I can't afford a pet? Do you have help for me? Absolutely. This community is, is just, you have to love pets. Now, if you don't love pets, we might have to have a different conversation, right? Yeah. Because I think maybe there's a little.

[00:18:27] I think for the person that, you know, suppose I'm an executive and I'm traveling all the time, so I don't feel like it's better to have a pet, but I miss that. Yes, you miss that. Is there a way I would think? Yeah. Absolutely. You can still come onto our platform. The only requirement is that you love pets, right? So you can still build a profile and those kinds of things. You can still come to events. Sometimes people come just for the snuggles, right? If we'll do a partnership puppy yoga event. You can still come just for the snuggles and just for that love and that affection.

[00:18:56] If we're doing a charitable drive, you can still come and make your impact known, even if you don't have a pet. But we want to equip you with the tools and the opportunities to be a pet parent. We want to make pet parenthood, especially for younger pet parents, less scary, right? Confidence is the most important part about being a pet parent. Like, what do I do? What food do I feed them? Where do I go for vet care? What decisions do I make? Oh my gosh, they ate a little chocolate. What do I do? Right?

[00:19:23] So within our platform, we built those tools and resources to help you be more confident as a pet parent, to also find people that you can connect with, and then a community, an engaged community that you can join and be a part of. So you were doing the mortgage company immediately proceeding in the real estate? Yes. How did this, when did this click for you? And you mentioned a partner. So did you start this with someone? Yeah, my, my, two of my most important team members, Jeff Brown and Nasir Samatar.

[00:19:54] And Nas is our CTO. Jeff is our COO. These are, you know, guys that have been in my life for, you know, 15 years, right? Jeff and I's mortgage company were acquired at the same time. That's what, you know, how we came into each other's lives. Nas became a client of both of ours. And then you just build those authentic relationships from serendipitous meetings, right? And so those meetings were in that same fashion, but we were all pet lovers, right?

[00:20:23] And we all had, you know, a relative degree of success in our other endeavors. And so we could really take a different approach to trying this than a lot of other bootstrap founders have to, right? For most, they can't afford not to take a salary. They can't afford to put a lot of their own money into the brand before it's successful. We were in a position where we could do that. Each of us. We could financially contribute, you know, more than a reasonable amount of funds to get the company off the ground. We could bet on ourselves.

[00:20:53] And then we could also put all of our efforts into building something great before we reach the point where we could take a salary. I know there are amazing people who have a lot of great ideas. And unfortunately, economics oftentimes stand in the way of realizing those goals. I remember when I started my first company, right? With wife at home, young baby, and taking a risk, right? And so she had to bet on me in the same way that I kind of bet on myself. So I know what that's like.

[00:21:22] And I've been there a few times. And, you know, I look at entrepreneurship as you never fail. You're just trying. And you're learning every time that something necessarily doesn't go right so you can do better next time. The, you know, even in wealth management, you're still self-employed, right? Because you're managing clients. You have to go out and acquire new clients that trust you to manage their money and to build their portfolios and to manage their retirement assets. So it's no different.

[00:21:49] You may be working for a larger firm, but in a sense, you still are your own independent brand. So for how I look at myself, I've always been self-employed for my entire professional career. I can't think of a time where I haven't been in that position, right? Where even as a wealth manager, managing your own book of clients to the mortgage side, to the real estate company, and then ultimately to building and developing houses, you're still an entrepreneur.

[00:22:16] And so I come at it with that mindset and that thinking of what would I want? How would I want to be treated? How would I want, you know, my needs to be met? So when we thought about this company and Offleashed in particular, we really understood that the needs of pet parents weren't just a very singular thing, right? So our tip of the spear may have started as a matchmaking app because that was an easily digestible form for people to connect with, right? Find love through pets.

[00:22:46] Very simple. People could get it. People can understand it. But that was just so that we could get people to understand that there was a connection opportunity that existed through pets. But there was so much more that we know the needs of a pet parent are, right? From buying the right food to apparel to vet care to advice to information, all these things to training and coaching, all this stuff. It's overwhelming sometimes.

[00:23:11] You know, being a pet parent is the same as, you know, similar, not the same, similar to being a parent of a human child. And right now, pet parents outpace human parents. It's like 40 million of, you know, parents of human children to, you know, 84 million pet parents' households. And so these are households with kids and households with pets. Is that in the dress? That's domestically here in the U.S., yes. Twice as many. So when you think about that, they're an intangible part of our everyday lives.

[00:23:41] So building this, we knew we needed to build something that wasn't just a singular thing to solve a singular problem. Technology helps us do more things for more people more efficiently. And so, you know, Nas, you know, used to be the former head of engineering for Amazon and Rover. So, you know, when you think about it from that perspective, thinking about from an e-commerce perspective and from a technological perspective, where our economy isn't going,

[00:24:07] his insights have been critical to helping us navigate this. And, you know, Jeff and I come from the business and, you know, that kind of background. So we brought all of these skill sets together to say, let's build something great. Let's build something that is audacious, as one person called it, of what we're trying to build. But we believe that this is a company that needs to exist and can be transformational in people's lives. And we've seen that every day, right?

[00:24:34] And new people joining our platform because they're doing it organically, right? We only advertise on the West Coast, but every place I'll fly, I'll open up the app and there'll be new people in the community that have joined. And trying to find something that's missing from their lives. So let me ask you, I had an experience with a business partner that was less than ideal. And I can look back on it now and see some of the challenges. But what do you think are the top priorities if you're going to start a business with somebody else?

[00:25:03] Because a lot of businesses don't make it because of, you know, talking about relationships, because of the partnership. Yeah. Listen, I think we've all gone through those things where we've had partnerships that didn't work out. Not from ill intent from either partner. It just didn't work out, right? I have searched for most of my professional career to find an opportunity like this.

[00:25:29] Where you have people equally yoked in terms of the same mindset, the same goals, the same ideals. Where the people are first. Everything else becomes secondary, right? Jeff, Naz, and myself, neither one of us had to do this. It's a choice we're making, right? We all were doing other endeavors that were moderately successful. So we didn't have to make the choice to do this. So when you have people that are committed at that level, that believe in the vision, that believe in the passion, the people you attract are amazing, right?

[00:25:59] Our head of product is over in Europe, Drazen. And he's been with us as a foundational piece throughout the building of this company. That kind of commitment, right, is what you need. Advisors that we've had that are part of our team. People like Emily that came over to us from Apple that believe in the vision, right? What we've been able to do, maybe it's a gift that I have. I can attract really great people that can believe in doing something bigger than themselves.

[00:26:25] And I think most people want to be a part of something that's not just transactional, but that's really impactful on people's lives. And I'm not saying that everyone doesn't have that gift, but that's one of the things that I have. And so what I've done this time is found people that share in that same vision, that same passion, and wanted just as much as I do. And I think that is the one thing that, you know, from learning lessons from the past, as you've talked about, was critical in this.

[00:26:53] Finding people that are passionate in the same way and that you trust immensely, right? Relationships over time. And these are people that have had relationships for a decade-plus, deep relationships. So they weren't casual in going into business. You were all in. All of you were all in. Yes. Which I think makes a difference. Absolutely. When you're not all in, you have to be all in, I think. I agree. Yeah. That's really cool. So let's talk about building your company.

[00:27:22] You know, you talked about learning and how you're always learning. And I love that analogy. I think about that, too. And I think about every entrepreneurial venture as an experiment with a lot of assumptions. So what were some assumptions that you made going into this that you disproved along the way? Sounds like you've had a lot that have been proven out, which is awesome.

[00:27:48] But what did you expect going into this, even with all of your experience in wealth management, finance, and business? And, you know, you came into it very prepared. And you've got a great mindset. I can tell by what you've got behind you. You work hard, grind, execute, and hustle. So what were the assumptions or what was one or two assumptions that you made that haven't played out? I will tell you, this is the hardest thing I've ever done.

[00:28:17] And that's being as transparent as I can be. Every business we've done is hard, of course. Any entrepreneur, I have the utmost respect because I know what it takes, right? There is no hours. It is you are on always. There's no shortcut, right? Right. And especially when you have staff and those kind of things, people that depend upon you to be the best version of yourself every day, there's a large responsibility to that, right? I take that responsibility the same as being a husband, the same as being a father,

[00:28:45] the same as being a leader that people follow, that have joined me in various endeavors in different companies, right? People that have been with me for a long time, right? You know, real estate and construction company. I mean, my longest tenured guy, Russ Chaney, has been with me for, you know, 17 years. So when you think about that, that longevity is important. I think you've got to earn that trust and commitment. But this business is the pace at which everything changes. I didn't come from the tech world. I came from a business world, right? But in technology, things are changing overnight, right?

[00:29:15] So everything was for me in this space. And then you put the pet industry on top of that, okay? So because we're kind of a hybrid of both, right? We're at our core, we're a tech company, but we're in the business of pets, right? So we're bringing a very unique cross-section and intersection into the pet space. One, pet space, historically, is a very traditional core business and marketplace, right? So we're bringing new, fresh ideas is pushing the envelope quite a bit, right?

[00:29:44] So it's finding ways to navigate a space and then trying to change it as quickly from within in a space that moves historically slower than other spaces to respond, right? Because there's been a very, you know, traditional way we do things or the things that have been done in the pet space that, in my opinion, have to change and no longer work because the pet economy and who is going to be leading that pet economy in the coming years has already changed, right?

[00:30:10] Millennials and Gen Z and Gen X are now 74% of pet parents. So when you look at that, the way in which they communicate and operate is different. What are the big changes that you've seen in the pet industry? Or what's changing a lot? Is it, I know it's growing numbers is one. Yes. And the use of technology, which I think you've captured. You know, I'm thinking of Chewy, for example, that has jumped in, captured. He's actually just on a call with them right before this. It's funny.

[00:30:40] Huge brands, right? Right. So what's changed the most in the pet? I would say three things. One, your pet parent is changing, right? It's younger. It's more diverse than ever before. And the way in which they operate, make buying decisions, communicate, connect is different. Fundamentally, never before, right? They're not going into the vet as often, or they're using different things from a technological standpoint than before.

[00:31:08] They're not your traditional box store buyer as much anymore, right? So where in the past and traditional buying habits of different generations may have gone into the store to buy their bags of food, they're more health conscious and focus of those kind of things of healthy options for their pet, which are very different and cost conscious. And all these things are very different than before, right?

[00:31:34] So we're kind of in this, if I don't mean to digress, but this kind of case-shaped economy when you look at the pet industry, right? So on one side, you have an industry that is stagnant or going like this because either people are aging out, their buying habits are different, their pets are getting older. So you have an aging pet population, which is going to change the dynamics. And then you have this younger generation that has to drive change in the industry,

[00:32:00] coupled with those that maybe have a little bit more affluence and resources who are buying premium products as well, right? So you have two very different realities, and that's what's happening in the economy. And so you have an industry that's also right at this precipice of trying to decide which way do we go. Well, our core business has been here, and we want to stay beholden to our core business. But if we stay here too long, the market's going to move away from us, right?

[00:32:26] So for us, we're like the new thing in the space. The new kid on the block. The new kid on the block that's trying to drive the industry in a completely different direction, right? It says, look, we have to embrace the new uniqueness in the marketplace, right? You have a large group of women pet owners driving lots of decision-makings and buying decisions. They always have, but it's the different dynamics now.

[00:32:51] The Spanish-speaking community is the second largest dog-owning community here domestically in the U.S. These are really important things. There's opportunities to grow market share in other communities of color that haven't traditionally been looked at from large brands. It's younger generations of people in big, huge population centers that have millions of pets and will be pet parents going forward. And they're replacing children for a period of time with pets. So all those dynamics are changing.

[00:33:19] So it's getting the pet industry to recognize that and to get ahead of that, I think, the way we are as an expert base. So we're trying to forge our way into leadership positions in the pet industry to help them drive and say, listen, we either got to get along and move or get left behind. Yeah, that's, you know, it's tough to be the one out there leading. It can be very challenging. So I can see where that was a big wake up, I guess, when you got into the industry to start to understand. To start to understand.

[00:33:49] How are the head waves or the headwinds is a better word. Headwind, yeah. We're going to be to kind of effectuate change in the way that we wanted it to, right? But now, listen, we've got some great people, amazing people in the pet space that have really embraced us and embraced what we're doing. You know, growing close relationships with the Mars team. I guess we were on the phone with the Chewy team right before this show. Listen, the people who are going to continue to lead, I think they're getting it.

[00:34:14] There's a lot of great, amazing entrepreneurs coming into this space that are passionate about change and opportunity and connection and community. And we want to just be a part of leading this new era of pet parenthood. Well, it's interesting because you do have the advantage of being younger and more nimble, you know. And I find it really interesting because you're talking about partnerships. Yes. And collaborations as opposed to competition.

[00:34:41] Not that competition isn't out there, but you're focused on collaboration, if I'm hearing you correct. Oh, you're absolutely hearing me right. Yes. You know, fundamentally, I'll tell you this. I've never really believed in competition. What I mean by that is I'm a super competitive person. Our whole family is filled with competitive people. So let me lead with that. That doesn't change. But I'm not a fit for everybody. Another person is not a fit for everybody. I'm okay with that.

[00:35:07] But there are some people that I'm a great fit for in terms of what their needs are, that our brand is an amazing fit for. Right? So it's about we should, instead of competing with each other, the goal is the client. The goal is the customer. The goal is the member. The goal is the pet. And if they drive our decisions, everything else becomes secondary. Right? You know, we, this is our new brand, Nibble & Wag. Right? We came out with a new pet food line for a simple reason.

[00:35:29] Not to compete with everybody else, but to provide younger pet parents, actually all pet parents, an opportunity to have affordable, healthy pet food. So you want to fill in a gap that nobody else is really addressing. Right? Yes. Let's fill some needs. There was no one addressing the opportunity for connection and community. Let's solve that. But the needs of pet parents are multitude. We know we can't solve all of those.

[00:35:55] So we should be looking for collaborations to make sure that we can make the lives of our customers and our members and our pets better. Those who look at it as competition, I just think that's a, you know, backwards way of thinking. For me, because it doesn't do anyone a good service. Right? It only serves maybe that particular brand, but it doesn't serve the customer. And I've always believed in this, that if you serve the customer well, your business will prosper. Your business will do well. And so I've never looked at it that way.

[00:36:22] Because I do believe we've got something that everyone, if you're a pet parent, with one. It doesn't matter the age. If you are comfortable, at least at some level, with technology, you're willing to get on an app and you're willing to go out and meet people. We're a great place for you. Right? Right? We're going to be hosting some events at a winery in Washington coming up. Three-part series. We'll do some, we'll do a mixer. We're going to do a trivia night. We're going to do a pet photography and adoption night. These are for people for all ages.

[00:36:52] If you like wine and you like live music and you like to bring your pet out and have some amazing events, those are for people of all ages. It's important for people to connect and get together. That's important. I'll have to find out about that because we're going to be out in Washington in about a month. And probably- You tell me the dates. I'd love to invite you out. Yeah. It'd be fun to check that out. So I love this approach. You know, it is a huge industry, huge opportunity. I agree. But going into it, identify the gaps.

[00:37:21] You know, I think every entrepreneur can learn from that and thinking more collaboratively and competing against yourself. Yes. I think it's part of the mindset. So you've built this company and you've got a good technology officer because you definitely have a technology component. But one of the biggest challenges with this kind of a business is actually marketing, I think, and branding. And so talk to me about that.

[00:37:50] But I know a lot of entrepreneurs are out there thinking, I want to scale my business, but to do it, people have to know I'm here. And that takes a lot of money or something very creative. So, you know, what kind of advice do you give around that? And what have you all done? You know, what's worked? Has it worked? Anything you want to add about- Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's a super important topic. And you're absolutely right, right? Listen, some ideas you're going to come up with, people aren't going to believe in right away.

[00:38:19] You have to prove it to them, right? So similar with OffLeast, right? We're going to build a social app. How are you going to monetize it? How are people going to come onto the platform? Is this something of need, right? So we focused initially on building the community first and doing that through social means, right? These are, you know, social platform, Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and some of these places, right? Because when people can see themselves as part of the story, they'll want to be a part of the story.

[00:38:48] And that's the most important. I think with any brand, whatever you're building, if you can make your potential customers see themselves as part of that journey and part of that mission, they're going to be more engaged and more invested in that process, right? And listen, from early adopters and pet influencers and those kind of things that really believe with what we're trying to do, they've been so impactful to us, right? We've been overwhelmed by the support of people that are pet people in the community that normally, listen,

[00:39:14] they charge large expenses, but have come to us and have been, you know, oftentimes providing their services for free and just wanting to tell people about the app because they believe in it that much. They believe in that, hey, this needs to exist and they want to be a part of that. So I think that's important, right? If you have your Lone Star, your big mission that you're trying to reach and you're confident in telling people about that and getting people to believe in that and then talk about it and go out and do it, yes, it is a big investment, right?

[00:39:44] Before we raised money from anybody else, you know, Jeff and I put it collectively about, you know, and then from there, you know, we raised another 700,000, then we got up to a million, then we got into the Google program, Google Cloud for Startup program because people started believing in it from there.

[00:40:09] Now we're trying to raise another 5 million because we know we need to have boots on the ground physically in other big cities, right? We need to be in Denver. We need to be in Austin, in Dallas. We need to be in Atlanta. We need to be in Miami, in Orlando. We need to be, you know, in Tampa. We need to be in New York. We need to be in Tennessee. Big population centers with lots of pets, lots of people that can really exacerbate that momentum. Now we're also working on some stuff on some media plays that I think will get us,

[00:40:37] our brand in front of hopefully millions of new eyeballs instantly with some great stuff we've been working on behind the scenes. But we're really excited about the future in terms of what that looks like. I believe. If I can help you in Tampa, let me know about it. I'm happy. 100%. I got a question for you because I know from listening to you talk and from reading about you that you're passionate about helping people. What do you say to the entrepreneur who's listening and says, I'm willing to work hard.

[00:41:05] I really, I have this, I'm passionate about this idea, but I don't have 350,000 or a partner. What do you say to them? How can we make entrepreneurship more accessible? Because I do believe entrepreneurship can be a game changer. Yeah. Yeah. That is the biggest challenge I think we all have to focus on, right? Yeah. You're absolutely right. That is the biggest challenge. I know I talked about that before, that we're in a unique position to try to do this, right?

[00:41:35] There are some great investors out there that will take a risk and bet on an idea. And it's very hard, right? Being in this space, entrepreneurship is the hardest thing that anybody will ever do, right? Because you have to bet on yourself consistently. There is no guarantee of a paycheck at the end of next month. You're constantly having to wear 10 or 20 different hats. You're legal, you're compliance, your leadership, you're marketing, you're grassroots guys.

[00:42:05] You know, you're all of those people in one. And that's the beauty of it, right? I think you have to, I always believe in this. You have to be willing to bet on yourself regardless. And it may seem like this is super risky and I totally get that, right? And there's no guarantee that it's going to work and that it's going to be successful. But I will tell you this, that if you try and you put all of your effort in and you really believe in it and you sell out and there are no shortcuts.

[00:42:33] That doesn't mean I'm going to be an entrepreneur and I'm going to work, you know, from, you know, eight o'clock to noon every day. That's not the entrepreneur life, right? It is the most thankless experience I think most people will go through. It is sometimes four o'clock in the morning until, you know, one o'clock at night. And those are the days and that's what you're signing up for. But I've always believed in a very simple concept. You won't outwork me.

[00:42:59] And if you can adapt that, you know, people asked, you know, especially when I was a little bit younger and how did I sometimes get past some of my peers? And sure, I have immense confidence in my abilities and what I can bring to the table. I think everyone has to have that. But if you think about the average person working nine to five and instead of working nine to five, I can work, you know, 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. And I can pick up an extra five hours a day. And I do that every week.

[00:43:26] At the end of two weeks, I picked up a full week and a half of work. At the end of a month, I picked up, you know, I'm two weeks ahead of a person now, three weeks ahead of a person now. You multiply that over 12 months, right? Now I'm 36 weeks ahead of someone, right? That's an additional nine months. So you extrapolate that over a five, 10-year period. And then you see, well, where's the difference? It's because I was willing to put in the extra work to get that much farther.

[00:43:54] How much more do you want it than the next person, right? Because most people aren't willing to do that. And there is no, like, magic bullet. I didn't come from money. I didn't come from any resources or those kind of things where I could lean on that. But what my parents did give me was this immense belief in myself, one, and two, this undeniable work ethic. And I knew regardless of what barriers were put in front of me, and there were multitude, I had the ability to overcome them because I will outwork it, right?

[00:44:22] And so that's the pledge I would give to most people. Always better yourself when you fall, fall, fall on your back because you've got to look up to get up. And I believe in that, right? Because if you try consistently, eventually it's going to work. Eventually people are going to believe in it. And the people will come around side you, and you'll have that one person bet on you. And then you'll have the next person bet on you. And that continues to repeat itself time and time again. And then we get there.

[00:44:48] But then, you know what, as an entrepreneur, you know, I don't know if retirement is ever something you'll ever do because you always want to do good. You always want to do good. You always want to try better, right? I think entrepreneurs want to transform. You know, they want to do something transformative. And I love that. I love that answer. And I think the other thing to add on to that is when you demonstrate that kind of work ethic, there are mentors along the way that will show up. Absolutely.

[00:45:15] And you will be surprised at the people I think that will help you. When you demonstrate that kind of passion for what you're doing and that work ethic, I'm actually getting chills just thinking about our conversation. Agreed. You really inspired me there. I fully agree with that. Yeah. It is hard work. But I can say in my life, mentors and people that have helped me along the way and shown up have just been, you know, a big part of my journey. And I'm sure you probably have the same. 100%.

[00:45:43] I would say in this company even more so as well, too. Like I told you, the two guys alongside of me. I mean, to attract that kind of talent to walk alongside you in doing this for free is an immense, like, you know, it's very humbling, right? Because they believe in you that much, of course. They don't have to do this. But they're right alongside, step for step, because we believe in doing something transformational, right? And you have to have people like that.

[00:46:09] So I think if you show up in the right ways, you'll have people that will come alongside you and show up in the right ways for that as well, right? You've got to have a great support system at home. You've got to have a great support system with your friends because it's going to get tough. There's going to be times you're going to doubt yourself, all those kind of things. Those are normal feelings and normal reactions. It's not always going to work. Sometimes your best ideas aren't going to work. And you've got to be willing to say, okay, I'm going to pick myself up and go another round, right? Because it's a journey.

[00:46:37] It's a process, right? And I know a lot of entrepreneurs can get discouraged by early setbacks or things not going as perfectly. And I look at it, that's life. It's not going to be perfect. It's also helpful. It's also helpful to learn that stuff early, right? It is. You know, I call it executing past failure. You know, you've got to execute past failure. And the sooner you learn those lessons in the journey, the less you have to lose in many ways.

[00:47:08] Agreed. I say fail fast, right? I think. But, you know, obviously we want everybody to have success. But success usually doesn't come unless there are some failures along the way. I have loved this conversation. I can keep talking for a long time. I know you've got your job brand and you've got your app. And I think you're using AI, which we didn't even get into. But yeah, what did your AI do in your app?

[00:47:35] We got early invited into the Google Cloud for Startup program. And with that, we were able to build our EVE AI, which is essentially like a chat GPT, but it was only trained in pet related information, right? So when you get into the app, you can start using EVE. And EVE has a very personal relationship with you and your journey as a pet parent, right? So it's going to know about you and your pet. It's very curated experience. So if you're going to the vet or your dog's eating chocolate or it has a different, it's gnawing, you know, biting at its,

[00:48:05] paws or something like that, it's going to be able to give you direct answers about you and your pet, right? It's also going to be able to give you advice about the local dog parks or pet from the restaurants or anything that you need that's hyperlocal into your area. It is an absolute game changer. When you think about like places like Reddit, right? Daily basis, you might have a million, million, four people crowdsourcing answers about what to do with their pet. We said, listen, we want to equip people with the tools and resources to give you the right answers.

[00:48:35] And listen, chat, chat and cloud and all these tools are amazing. But it gives you, it knows a lot about a lot of different things. Our LLM has only been trained with pet related information, right? So you can only ask it about pet related items. So it's deeper, it's knowledge base, it's broader to help you be a better pet parent, right? So when we talk about this epidemic of loneliness as well as confidence, those are the two big things we're solving for with technology.

[00:49:02] But our food brand, Nibble and Wag came out of our conversations and communications with our members and them telling us that, especially our younger pet parents, their biggest concern was, I want to feed my dog healthy, but I can't afford some of these other amazing brands, right? There's some great brands out there. Just Food for Dogs and Farmers Only. They're all amazing brands. They're all trying to do and get people good food. But financially, it is out of reach of most people, right?

[00:49:31] But should you have to make the choice between that? The Clean Project just came out with a big report about, you know, a lot of the carcinogens and all these toxins and stuff in dry kibble. And I'm not saying that these companies are intentionally trying to do that. But what I am saying, that's the outcome. The outcome is that there's not a lot of healthy ingredients that most people are buying from this. And it's usually cost driven. So we said, could we do something and give people a real option of having healthy, transparent

[00:49:58] food at a price that people could afford? And so we met our partner, Eric Adams with Dog and Whistle over drinks and margaritas at a conference I was speaking at. And we came up with this. I said, could we do this? And I'd never built a pet food before. Like many of the things we haven't. So Jeff and I got on the plane and started crisscrossing across the country, going to every conference you could to try to figure out how to do this.

[00:50:23] And a year and a half later, we just launched our own pet food line at nibbleandwag.com. It's $16.99 a bag. If you're an Aquileach member, it's $15. It's a one pound bag. It equates to about four pounds of food. So it's under $2 a meal. It's healthy food, fully transparent, accessible to everyone, right? That was our goal, to make a healthy food product that everyone could afford. I knew what the challenges were when I was growing up of not being able to give our dog good, healthy food.

[00:50:50] And then I knew what the opposite was of giving our dog the most expensive food. And I said, you know, the truth has to be something different than that. And so that's why we created this food. And we're super excited about the opportunities to expose the world about healthy food that everyone can afford. I love it. And I wish you would start working on the food supply for humans. Working on it. Maybe that's next. Maybe that's next. Well, this has been an amazing conversation, Terry.

[00:51:17] I always ask what's your, you know, if you could give one piece of advice to the aspiring entrepreneur out there. I work with a lot of students, you know, who want to be you someday. What would that one piece of advice be? It would be two things. Believe in yourself more than anything, right? Have that bet that internal confidence is so important because there's going to be times of doubt. There's going to be times where you just, you know, it's hard to get up that day.

[00:51:46] But that belief in yourself and that you're called to do something more than even what you thought was possible. I think that's super important. And the second, which I think is super important, is you never know who's watching. You never know who's watching. I was touched by this story. A new friend of mine, his name is Pietro. He has a company out of Canada called Fairvet. I'd never met him before, but he saw me in, I think, GeekWire. And he's another African-American business owner in the pet space.

[00:52:15] He had never seen someone that looked like himself in a major tech magazine or anything like that. He flew from Canada to California on the off chance that he would meet me and that I would be at this conference. And we met each other. And the story he told me was that I would have given up my dream and I was about to, but then I saw you in this magazine and I felt that there was an opportunity for me to do the same thing. So you never know who you're going to inspire and who your life and whatever you're doing is going to touch.

[00:52:43] So believe in yourself and know that other people are watching, even if you don't know they are, because they want to be inspired by some of the things that you do. So those are the two takeaways that I have. And hopefully that can be impactful for somebody else's life. Love it. Love it. That's so amazing. That's so amazing. Terry, where can our guests find out everything they need to know about Off Leashed and your dog food line and everything that you have to offer your company?

[00:53:09] Please visit us on our website, www.offleashed.com and our pet food line, which is nibbleandwag.com to find either our food or join our social community. You go to the Play Store on Google or the Apple Store and download our app and join our community. I'd love to hear from you. Send us a message. Let us know you came. We're going to start rolling out these series, which is called our Pet of the Day. We're going to show all of the pets that are in our community.

[00:53:39] There are quite a few thousand of pets, so we'll never run out, at least for the next 20 years. So we're excited. Hopefully your pet can come onto our platform as well. We'd love to have you. I love it. I love it. Thank you, Terry. I appreciate you joining me today. Thank you, Rebecca. I appreciate being on your show and your audience. I've really enjoyed my time here.

[00:54:03] This has been an amazing conversation with Terry James, and I hope you found it as inspiring as I did. The fact that he was able to bring together our pets and community to solve a problem like loneliness and then move into providing affordable pet dog food is just, I find it really amazing and incredible. For our listeners, I want you to take away this idea.

[00:54:31] Terry heard the same complaint from pet parents again and again. I want better food, but I can't afford it. And instead of nodding and moving on, he built a brand. That is what entrepreneurs do. They hear what others hear and see what others miss, and they look for the gaps in the market to address. If today's episode inspired you, please do me a favor. Subscribe to The InFactor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

[00:55:01] And if you have a minute, leave us a review. Also, if you know someone that could benefit from this episode, please share it because you never know, as Terry said, you never know who's watching and who you can inspire. And speaking of community, if you're ready to level up your own entrepreneurial intelligence, head over to DrRebeccaWhite.com to explore the EI Lab and everything we're building there.

[00:55:28] Until next time, keep building, keep listening, and keep betting on yourself. I'm Rebecca White. Thank you for joining me today on The InFactor.