Your host, Sri Chellappa, talks with the Director of Total Rewards of Christian Care Ministry, Casey Sanders. Christian Care Ministry, a non-profit financial services organization with a workforce of 730 employees, has been under Casey's strategic leadership for six years. During the conversation, Casey illuminated the critical role of core values in shaping the culture of an organization. He described these values as the organization's heartbeat, influencing every interaction and decision within the workplace.
Casey's tenure at Christian Care Ministry, including his experience as interim head of HR and as the owner of an HR and benefits consulting firm, has cemented his belief in the power of intentional culture. He stressed that culture is a dynamic entity, constantly evolving, and it's up to leadership to steer it in the desired direction.
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[00:00:00] People First Organizations will win in the future of work.
[00:00:07] We all want purpose, business and work.
[00:00:09] HR led organization is...
[00:00:11] I'm sorry but leaders don't lead empty desks and empty shop floors.
[00:00:16] Welcome to the People Strategy Leaders show.
[00:00:19] I'm your host Srikant Chellappa, founder and president of Engage-A-Lea
[00:00:23] and a serial entrepreneur in technology, films and music.
[00:00:27] This is where we talk to people leaders, business strategists and organizational sabans
[00:00:32] about leading in the time of change.
[00:00:34] What is working? What is not working?
[00:00:37] And more importantly what we should be thinking about.
[00:00:40] Stick around to the end of the show.
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[00:00:45] And now let's engage.
[00:00:47] Hello and welcome to People Strategy Leaders Podcast with Srikant Chellappa.
[00:00:52] I'm today here with Casey Sanders.
[00:00:55] In six years Casey has been the director of Total Rewards at Christian Care Ministry,
[00:01:00] a non-profit financial services organization with 730 employees headquartered in Melbourne, Florida.
[00:01:06] During that time he has also served for a short time as interim head of HR
[00:01:11] leading an HR team of 24 employees.
[00:01:14] Prior to Christian Care Ministry Casey owned an HR and benefits consulting firm in Kansas City, Missouri area.
[00:01:20] In every 20 years Casey has helped organizations align their people strategy to their organization's mission and vision.
[00:01:27] He's been married for 15 years with two children and spends his free time coaching youth sports and serving in his local church.
[00:01:34] Well, welcome to the show Casey. It's a pleasure to have you.
[00:01:37] Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:39] And for a full disclosure Casey is also a client of Engage-A-Lea.
[00:01:43] So we'll obviously talk a little bit about how that has been implemented
[00:01:47] and seen value in the organization as well.
[00:01:50] But I really want to start off first thing is you are a big core values culture person at heart.
[00:01:57] In our discussions, you wanted to really emphasize on that
[00:02:00] and how you want to drive culture more intentionally rather than it happening inadvertently.
[00:02:07] So talk a little bit more about how you actually think about it
[00:02:10] and what steps did you take to implement a strong culture
[00:02:14] and your core values in your organization and why is that important?
[00:02:17] Sure. Yeah, it's a shared belief of across our HR leadership team first and foremost
[00:02:24] that culture is always developing and being created and changing
[00:02:30] and you can let that happen inadvertently or you can be very proactive
[00:02:37] and try to have some intentionality around which way it's being shaped.
[00:02:42] And so that shared belief really just kind of fosters into everything that we do.
[00:02:48] For me personally, I believe core values can become the heartbeat of an organization
[00:02:57] and how folks behave and interact with each other, treat each other either well or poorly
[00:03:02] based on how well those core values are being lived out.
[00:03:06] And so just kind of a fundamental building block to everything that we do
[00:03:11] from managing performance to recognizing and rewarding team members,
[00:03:16] those areas that HR influences especially from a talent acquisition
[00:03:22] and maintaining talent standpoint.
[00:03:25] Yeah, so one thing I sometimes see a struggle is that HR wants to implement
[00:03:31] a talent and drive better culture but they're not necessarily being supported
[00:03:37] by the management because manager wants to do their thing.
[00:03:40] Even though they say they want to do this, behaviors usually don't reflect that.
[00:03:45] Have you obviously you're being successful.
[00:03:48] So what is the right recipe there to make that successful
[00:03:51] and how can HR have a little bit more of the driver's seat to make this happen?
[00:03:56] Right, well I think at the heart of the issue is really buy-in.
[00:04:05] It isn't something that just happens overnight.
[00:04:08] We're all pretty imperfect people and we're going to probably get it wrong at times
[00:04:15] but buy-in comes from the senior most leadership of the organization
[00:04:21] and then being intentional over longer periods of time.
[00:04:25] And that's where the influence of culture happens.
[00:04:30] You can't create it yourself.
[00:04:32] You just realizing that HR can't make a culture
[00:04:36] and we've probably been parts of organizations where maybe the CEO
[00:04:40] stood on a platform and rolled out core values.
[00:04:44] It was a grand event and then it was just never spoken of again.
[00:04:50] And then culture just creates itself where we have these core values
[00:04:55] but no one's really living them out or talking about them
[00:04:59] or trying to shape the culture towards those things.
[00:05:03] And so really once core values are laid out
[00:05:08] and for our organization how that has been successful
[00:05:11] is it becomes now embedded in every aspect of our working environment.
[00:05:18] So core values are introduced to an organization
[00:05:21] but then how are they reinforced and that's, you know,
[00:05:24] is it reinforced in performance management?
[00:05:26] Is it reinforced in rewards and recognition?
[00:05:29] Is it in the hiring process of what we're looking for in qualified candidates?
[00:05:35] That's how you begin to then just become a little bit more intentional with your efforts.
[00:05:41] And so we have a few things that hopefully we can share
[00:05:45] that would be helpful to organizations that are trying to influence it more
[00:05:50] and not letting it be kind of some taglines on a shelf.
[00:05:54] Yeah, definitely.
[00:05:55] You know I see culture usually being posters put on a wall but not lived
[00:06:00] and then there's really nobody enforcing the culture
[00:06:03] because you kind of have to drive and put energy into it
[00:06:07] otherwise you have entropy, you know, like with any organism
[00:06:11] that has entropy if you don't actively put energy into getting into a state you wanted to be in.
[00:06:17] So what have you done specifically?
[00:06:19] Maybe we can talk with start at the top, you know, talk with recruiting first, right?
[00:06:23] That's where you really start introducing the culture and the values.
[00:06:26] So can we talk start at the top and then work down
[00:06:29] over the entire employee life cycle on how that really gets influenced?
[00:06:34] Sure.
[00:06:35] And yeah, from the director total reward seat
[00:06:38] and working the talent acquisition day in and day out but as part of the HR leadership team,
[00:06:43] you know, one of the things we talk about regularly is how do we help hiring managers
[00:06:49] understand, you know, the value of behavioral based interviews
[00:06:54] and then planning those interview guides around what are we looking for?
[00:06:59] What values are we looking for?
[00:07:01] And then how do we, you know, explore that with candidates to make sure that they're
[00:07:06] they've demonstrated the types of behaviors that would align to our values.
[00:07:10] And when they, and when they don't, that is needs to be equally as important as the
[00:07:16] the tangible things we can see on the resume, you know, their skills and abilities.
[00:07:21] Right.
[00:07:22] And then, you know, as we move on to our performance management, you know, goals are extremely important.
[00:07:29] So setting goals that align to the organization's goals but equally important to our performance, annual review,
[00:07:35] cycle that we do with our employees is the behaviors and all of our behavioral based
[00:07:41] competencies that one might have in a performance review are all directly linked to our core values.
[00:07:47] And so when you're, you know, looking for giving feedback on how someone is doing a leadership,
[00:07:54] for example, you know, our core values, you know, a couple of them would be executing with unity or having,
[00:08:01] you know, executing with stewardship, you know, good stewardship as a nonprofit organization.
[00:08:06] That's very important to us, stirring our members resources well.
[00:08:11] So it's really more than just, you know, this random set of competencies is we are actually giving you feedback on
[00:08:20] are you living out our core values in the way that you achieve those goals.
[00:08:25] And so it becomes more, more so than just a checkbox item to do.
[00:08:30] It's the why behind what we do and how we do it.
[00:08:34] And that helps foster the culture further when we're actively having them focus on those behaviors that we would say we value as an organization.
[00:08:46] And as we get into the compensation and the rewards of employees, that's part of their life cycle is it's with our rewards and recognition program.
[00:08:59] This is one of the things we're really proud of as an organization is our leaders are engaged, you know, a over 80% of our leaders every single month are catching our core values being lived out and giving a tangible reward through we call them core value badges.
[00:09:16] So that they can foster an environment where employees not only feels celebrated when they are living out our core values but then encouraging and fostering an environment where more people want to live those core values out to be recognized across the organization as well.
[00:09:33] Right, so that's done through the, I guess the engagement recognition platform.
[00:09:38] And do you how do you make sure that everybody is doing that I mean because some managers get lazy or they don't feel like, oh I don't want to keep praising this person because then that person might be complacent.
[00:09:49] Or some are some are just just simply don't care right so how do you make sure that it is happening consistently because otherwise what will happen is and I've seen this happen where one team is getting all recognition and one team is getting all demotivated because their manager or their leadership is not giving them any recognition they feel like nobody really pays attention to their
[00:10:08] work because they're not maybe they're not doing that many in a cross functional projects because they're kind of sitting in one corner of the office and doing something that nobody really sees.
[00:10:18] So what what have you seen or done or that's more effective to make sure it is done in a more even-handed way and more effectively.
[00:10:26] Right, yeah, that's we're not immune to the challenges that other organizations face so you know we how we keep intentional about making this a culture.
[00:10:38] And so the influencing impact as opposed to just another item on a leader's checklist checklist of things to do is we just we talk about this at least quarterly and in our regular leadership meetings across our senior leadership of an organization we actually measure what percentage of leaders are giving that type of recognition by department
[00:11:03] we can kind of see how it's being distributed across the organization but you know for leaders you know we on the HR side we just we recognized early on that we needed tools and resources to make it not only efficient for them to be able to do that.
[00:11:21] But then it was also effective in changing behavior. And so for that's where it really has come along side us to help us make that an efficient process so it's fairly simple for leaders to do that.
[00:11:36] But, but I would say the accountability comes when we share that in the leadership meeting and talk about the importance of having influence on the culture of the organization leaders kind of seeing how they're doing in comparison it makes it a way to then share that with their frontline leaders that they they manage and lead to reinforce the the behavior of those those frontline leadership to be doing this on a regular basis and so those those helpful reminders
[00:12:05] just and then just providing them tools and resources to make it easy. We provide quite a few examples of what does it look like to actually live out of core value so that it becomes familiar when they see it when leaders see it and they can say oh yeah that that that is living at our core value I need to recognize it.
[00:12:25] So do you.
[00:12:27] I guess in the performance management process obviously you are presenting that in the quarterly of the which managers are doing it and how many of them are doing it and all that. Do you actually use that as a way to even evaluate managers that are they doing this or not or is that more of a soft push.
[00:12:47] Yeah, so yeah it's not actually a formal part of their review other than incorporating in the behavioral based competencies those leadership, for example, and executing with unity for example these these are of the cult of the initiatives in the organization has is the leader.
[00:13:05] So they're going to be able to demonstrate an alignment and agreement and support and their commitment to the things that's part of the part of the behavioral based piece of the performance review but they don't have a specific goal that is assigned to them as, as their as a leader so it's a little bit more of a softer push but
[00:13:26] and the things that you talk about regularly, those are the things that are going to get some intention as opposed to just happen.
[00:13:35] We're in a very leash.
[00:13:37] Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:38] So one of the things I wanted to touch upon which you know where we were doing our, you know, discussion about how you're using the product and all of that one thing that really stood out for me and I look at a lot of clients and how they're using it is you have almost 100% if not 100%
[00:13:55] compliance, you will or completion rate on your performance reviews, pretty much on time.
[00:14:02] I found that very exciting, first of all, to see that but I also was somewhat astonished because it's not something that happens in a lot of organization and we ourselves don't necessarily always get 100% on time.
[00:14:16] How do you accomplish that that's a big one, you know for a lot of HR leaders to try to get some of these processes done in time.
[00:14:24] There's quite a bit to unpack but I would say there's really two things that probably have the biggest influence on that we've probably a little backstory it'd be helpful because your audience can probably relate to our organization 2014 started going through rapid growth.
[00:14:44] We were in one location prior to 2014 and all onsite employees and we were handling reviews on paper.
[00:14:53] And you know became as we started going through rapid growth expanded to two physical locations across the United States and then over 20 states we have remote employees and we needed to reimagine the process.
[00:15:06] And in that the two things that really have gotten us to where now for a few years in a row we've been at that 100% completion rate is the executive and board buy in to the importance of an annual, at least an annual wrap up and documentation of kind of those conversations about performance
[00:15:29] behaviors that have happened throughout the year. And so we have this ingrained expectation of our organization that our board of directors will expect our senior leadership to give a self review and have them themselves reviewed by their their leader and they follow up the board would follow
[00:15:48] up with their leader and make sure those are complete every single year. And then so we see that the behavior of completing a review and giving good feedback from the executive team drives down to the organization that expectation that the will put intention and the time needed
[00:16:09] to review feedback and and we apply these ratings, you know to the scores. And so, you know as the board has the accountability to the executive team and then they model behavior for the organization that gets continued model all the way through the entire organization
[00:16:31] and that's probably been, you know one of the fundamental things that has prior the largest impact. But I would say the other big thing that has helped us achieve that is we almost treat our annual review cycle as a change management process, because you know we don't go in
[00:16:54] and you know the natural feeling about any reviews is a oh any review again.
[00:17:01] And so we go into the process just assuming that people are going to have to navigate the feelings and emotions also they come along with the review so.
[00:17:11] We find out who the influences are going to be. We communicate early and often the process, what's expected, we equip leaders with tools and resources to make the process as simple as possible.
[00:17:25] And but then also remind them of how to do it well. And so, you know, with when we talk about effective communication in that process it's also a two way street so we're, we're not just, you know, giving them the information and the communication flows one way.
[00:17:40] It's also receiving what are the challenges and opportunities of this of an annual review process that you're running into as a leader how do we better equip and resource you with, you know, that can be anything from a training guide to to just role playing with them.
[00:17:58] You know, we, we just give them the resources to make that process as easy as possible. And then even do some hand holding minutes, and really needed.
[00:18:09] Yeah, that's that's excellent. You're treating it as a change my process make sure that you're putting enough emphasis in prepping people for that and not just launching it and and then chasing them down, you know, it's a little bit more proactive.
[00:18:25] And that's actually a really good take away as well. So as you're looking forward, what are some of the new initiatives that you're looking for to drive better culture and you know overall the value if you will in the organization or other things that you're looking at that you want to
[00:18:47] do the organization into.
[00:18:49] Well, I would say, you know what's becoming in focus a little bit more is is the area of analytics, you know data, how do we make, you know, informed wise decisions as leaders in the organization based on our experiences that we that we have and know there.
[00:19:10] And we, you know, one of the areas that we are growing in and developing in, but then how do we also then keep that aligned to our core values and it doesn't become just another thing to look at new as a leader.
[00:19:24] We also are in the midst of probably what many organizations are faced with is we're returning people back to the office after the coven years and, and that will have a large impact on culture.
[00:19:39] How do you do that in the best possible way I don't know that any organization has the perfect recipe for what's the mix of hybrid and on site and remote work when you have physical office locations.
[00:19:53] How do we continue to keep that to the way communication going really listening to people but at the same time, you know, influencing the culture in the way that we feel like it needs to be as an organization for to set us up for the long term success we need.
[00:20:11] That's great. Yeah, so this is this is exciting and especially as a nonprofit you know your mission is slightly different than the other for profit, but you know, but driving people on culture is still equally important, if not more important in nonprofit because it's not a you know profit is not a driver for for driving.
[00:20:31] So it is definitely a lot of a lot of love empathy and stewardship like you like you mentioned.
[00:20:37] Great. Well, I really enjoyed our conversation. Is there anything you want to add that we may have missed in your approach that might be a good takeaway for listeners.
[00:20:48] You know, I would just say, you know, just maybe it's a plug for engage you to but you know I think just as much as your intentionality about driving culture, you know, really equipping leaders with efficient and effective tools and resources, you know, goes a long way into helping you actually implement
[00:21:12] change or drive cultures in a certain way. You can, if you're intentional about really complex and cumbersome activities, even the private, you know, best organizations will struggle when it's hard to administer something new that you're you're trying to to roll out so
[00:21:32] you know, I just would say, you know, invest in investing tools that make it really easy for leaders to participate and buy in and gain traction in things that will influence the culture like performance management or rewards and recognition.
[00:21:50] Great. Well, Casey, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on my show.
[00:21:55] Thank you for having me. My pleasure.
[00:21:58] Shree Chalapa here. Thank you so much for listening to the People Strategy Leaders podcast. If you are a successful leader or a people strategist who would like to be on this program, please visit engageadly.com slash people strategy leaders podcast.
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[00:22:46] And thank you to Patrick Ramsey, sound engineer at Kalinga production studios for recording and mixing this show.