How a Siberian Girl Defied Critics and Found Her True Voice

[00:00:00] Welcome to Gut Punch, the podcast that explores life-changing moments. Hosted by Kathryn Lancioni, a seasoned educator with personal insights into resilience. Kathryn shares how life can change in an instant, shaping our path forward. Each episode features inspiring guests who face their own gut punch moments. Guests share their journeys through loss, upheaval, and triumph. What to expect, honest conversations, lessons in resilience, inspiration for growth.

[00:00:30] Join Kathryn as she highlights courage and perseverance in every story. Gut Punch is a reminder that there is always a path forward. Be part of the conversation. Register now to join Kathryn for today's journey. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Gut Punch podcast. My name is Kathryn Lancioni, and I'm your host for today's episode. Today, we are joined by Marina Gribanova. She's coming to us from one of my favorite cities on the planet, which is Barcelona, Spain.

[00:00:59] And she's here to share a little bit about herself, her gut punch, and most important, her story of resilience. So, Marina, thanks for joining us today. Hi, everyone. Honored to be here. Thank you for the invitation, Kathryn. My absolute pleasure. Marina, before we sort of get into the heart of the conversation, it'd be great if you could share a little bit about your background with us. My background, well, I come from Russia. I was born in Siberia, and this is where my initial gut punch started. Yes.

[00:01:27] Now, I've been living outside of the country for more than 10 years, and I've been in different locations. Right now, I am a practicing psychologist, and I help people with expressing themselves through their voice. And I work mostly through body wear practices that also include voice practices. And through this connection to the voice and the body, we find the truth that the psyche might be looking for.

[00:01:56] Yeah, and I know when we initially spoke, like, there were two things that surprised me was the fact that you were born in Siberia. I mean, the only thing I know about Siberia is from bad James Bond movies that were in the United States, you know, years ago. Like, a lot took place in Siberia. So I was so just, like, taken aback by that. Because it's not every day you meet somebody that was born in Siberia. Given my background in communications as well, I was really just intrigued by the work that you're doing as it relates to communications.

[00:02:26] So thank you for that, and thank you for being a guest. So, all right, so let's talk about you. I mean, everyone, when I ask the question of people, like, you know, so what was your gut punch? I've had a couple people say to me, well, which one? Right? Exactly. Right? Like, which one? And I don't know, like, why don't you just take us through kind of the, some of these hills and valleys, you know, that you've had and how it's gotten to where you are today? And please start with Siberia, because I think everyone will find that so interesting.

[00:02:54] Yeah, I think the initial gut punch happened there because at some point I decided that I want to sing. And I went to a music school for an audition, and the teacher said to me that I have no voice. I can't hear the notes, and I am helpless. I'm hopeless, and I should just forget about my dream. So this was pretty bad. It was really hard. It was straight to the point.

[00:03:19] And I was quite young to just, you know, I have not grown that thick skin yet to just stand for myself right in that moment. But honestly, about 20 minutes into that gut punch, I realized that who is this person to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing? And even as a child, I made my decision to continue searching for the right, maybe the right teacher and see what it brings. Because this was like an intuitive desire to follow that.

[00:03:49] And I'm really grateful to myself that I followed that gut feeling and found the right teachers who were kind enough and patient enough. And over just a short period of time, my voice started opening up. Wow. And as we will probably talk later, the reason the voice is kind of held by the body is that sometimes we have no sensitivity to our body or we do not feel our emotions.

[00:04:16] And this is why the voice kind of gets stuck and we do not allow those emotions to come through. And so all of this studying the voice and becoming a singer took me on a journey of unfolding the inner psyche and the inner beauty of your personality, what you can find through your voice. So this was the first part. And then later in life, I lived in London. Yes.

[00:04:44] And suddenly I had two chronic episodes. One was the chronic indigestion. My digestive tract just broke down and just stopped functioning properly. And once I got out of it, almost right after it, I got the problem with a lot of women get this as chronic UTI. Yes. Ureteria tract infections. Yeah. This can get into a chronic condition also pretty quickly.

[00:05:11] And this was truly maddening because when something is constantly bothering you down there, like that is a horrible, it takes a huge toll on your psyche, on your mental health. Mental and physical. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. And I think two of these things now, how we may join them is I went into psychotherapy in order to understand what's going on.

[00:05:37] And what we found out is that because I was so numb to my own feelings, desires, and kind of just follow this conscious brain that was telling me what's right and what's not. That eventually left no choice to my psyche than to speak with me through the means of the body, through those symptoms. Yes. It's truly psychosomatic expression of what's going on inside of what's the mental state and the emotional state.

[00:06:06] So this was number one. And then also through the therapy, we came to the conclusion that what truly was always giving me the energy and the joy to get through hard times was the voice was singing. Oh, wow.

[00:06:20] And all this kind of together joined into my research about the psychosomatic expressions of our needs, how much wisdom our bodies actually hold to tell us what's really important for us and how our voice never lies. The voice will always express what's going on with you psychologically. Whether you are tense or worried or you're relaxed, all of this will be coming through the voice.

[00:06:49] We always hear it. We subconsciously read it from other people, what's going on with them, not only through the body language, but also through the sound that we hear. The same way we can perceive it from other people, same way we can give ourselves back that signal to feel calm and relaxed through our voice. So, yeah, this is what led me to what I'm doing today. So I want to go back to something that you said back about Siberia and the teacher that you had there. What was it like?

[00:07:18] So how old were you when she told you that you had no voice? Do you remember? I think I was about 14 or 15 years old. You're like a teenager, young, impressionable, and someone basically just crushes your dream, you know, says you're not good enough. But we've had other conversations on the show about when you're the recipient of that news. Like when someone says no, like you're out of your mind.

[00:07:43] And I was saying I've said that for me, no is a big motivator, right? You tell me I can't do something and I'm going to do it. It may take me time, but eventually I'm going to get there. I don't know if you can remember back, but what did it feel like for you when, you know, this teacher who had no place in saying that said that to you? It felt like a true punch, you know, as now I'm thinking about it. This giant sense of rejection. Yeah.

[00:08:12] I've always been the best one in class. I was always an A student, you know, I was always like the favorite. And suddenly huge rejection from somebody that I completely did not see coming. And one more thing we might want to mention here that the reason we don't like singing in front of other people or we don't like hearing our own voice in the recordings is because we associate our voice very deeply with our identity. Okay.

[00:08:40] And what happens if somebody says you're cool. That's so interesting. And I want you to keep going and then I have a comment. So go on with that. Yes. So when somebody tells to you, your voice is bad, it's almost like they tell you, you are bad. You are not good enough. You're yourself outside by your voice. Well, here's my two comments. A is we can't control the tone of our voice. Like we're born with this. And I know, yes, you can learn to control the octaves.

[00:09:09] Like some women will learn, like Hillary Clinton is famous in the United States for learning how to make her voice deeper, right, to make it sound more male. And I know in my public speaking classes that I do, I coach people on not always ending on an uptone kind of thing. But, you know, the tonality of the voice, that's what we're born with. And I'm a big lover of voices. And when I meet someone who has a great voice, I always say, oh, my gosh, like you have such a good voice.

[00:09:37] You know, you should be on TV or you should be on my podcast. But more importantly, it's very hard to listen to yourself. Like I it's very hard for me to listen to these shows after I film them because as much as I do this and as much as I love doing this, I don't like listening back to my voice. And a close friend of mine said he's like, you need to fall in love with your voice because it's your voice. And he said, if you don't love it, who else is going to?

[00:10:03] And and I really I really I really I really took that to heart. But I was curious, you know, what do you because what do you think about that doing what you do? Why we do not like our voices is the piece I want to comment on. Yeah. The reason is that we when we listen to ourselves back in the recording, we can clearly hear the tensions that we have not released yet. Because the voice is the representation of the state of your nervous system in this moment.

[00:10:32] It's so true. And usually you can hear that little note of maybe that little scared girl, I can hear her right now, you know, just like for a millisecond. Or maybe somebody or whatever role we put in that moment, you can hear that maybe it's not true to yourself. So whatever that thing you you might be trying to move away from, you can also hear it in your voice once in a while when you hear it in the recording.

[00:11:00] But physically, these are tensions in the body that the nervous system holds as a pattern. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just it's it's so funny because I think you're right. Like, I know you're right. But I'm just giggling back because like it is true, like the tonality or the even the pace or, you know, all this stuff that we that we teach in public speaking courses, like all of this comes through, you know, in a conversation. And yeah, you're right.

[00:11:23] I think it's you know, we had another guest on who we were talking a little bit about this the other day in terms of the importance of learning to love your voice and learning to learn how to try to use the voice effectively as it relates to gut punches. Right. Because you have to sometimes even though you're scared inside, you need to project a certain level of confidence.

[00:11:45] And as you're saying, the voice can sometimes give it away that we're not really 100 percent confident in our ability or that we're like at least not like sure of ourselves on that day. And I don't care how much prep you do. Sometimes like you're just you just don't feel ready. And as you're saying, that voice can be a conduit for that insecurity. It's fascinating. Yeah. And the more relaxed you are, the better your voice is going to be, the less doubts you will have in it.

[00:12:14] But also just remember what you hear in your own voice. Other people probably don't notice so much. It's also something that when we know ourselves so well, we study ourselves under this magnifying glass trying to find what's wrong. Certain people have this and a lot of people have it. Yeah. And we in it and just like in all things, we're our own work. We're our own worst critic. Right. So we pick up on stuff that other people wouldn't pick up on. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:43] And I always say to my clients, to people who have to do public speaking, I say, focus on your message. Focus on what's important to deliver, why you are there, why it's important to tell people what you're thinking, this message, how it's going to change their life or make any impact in the world. And then does it really matter? Because the moment you start analyzing your voice, how am I, it brings so much tension and so much pressure and then the message is lost.

[00:13:10] How do you coach your clients on getting comfortable with their voice? Like what are some tips that you give them for that? I think I always start with why they are not comfortable with their voice. I think until you understand the reason psychologically what's happening, how can you, no matter how many exercises you do in the moment of truth, the same pattern of the body tension will kick in because that's what the body remembers.

[00:13:38] And if psychologically we have not worked this through, it will be kicking in again and again in the stressful moments. That's why I think every time we start out with what led to your lack of confidence in your voice or in your speech. And usually what we find there is that was probably a very criticizing parent, which we can easily internalize that voice.

[00:14:03] And then that voice works against us when we try to express ourselves. Usually you will see that there is like a hierarchy in the psyche of the person. This is who they are and they are still kind of a little bit like a child. And there is a higher figure that tells them that they're not good enough to express themselves. And so they keep themselves small and shy.

[00:14:28] And obviously when we come to the physical level, the voice shows it as in the worst cases as a speech impediment. There is a desire to express and there is a pullback. Yeah. It's fascinating that it is triggered or, you know, the reason for it dates back to when you were little. It much means so much of the challenges we face as adults stem from the environment we were raised in, you know. And it isn't necessarily parents. Maybe it was a coach. Maybe it was a teacher.

[00:14:57] Maybe it was a vocal coach, as in your case, that said something or did something or created some climate of anxiety where it impacted you. And obviously you don't always, sometimes you realize it, like you realized it, that your vocal coach gave you that gut punch. But sometimes it may just be subtle ways that you interact with that person on a routine basis that impacts you. Yeah. I know for me in working with people that are afraid to give speeches, I sort of go with the same approach. I was asking, like, what are you afraid of?

[00:15:25] You know, and it is incredible how so many people and, you know, the data is out there. You know, I think it's like 75 percent of people would rather die than give a speech. I mean, it's some like crazy stuff like that. So what I get a lot of is people don't like being looked at, you know, and they don't like other people staring at them. You know, I understand that because it can be intimidating. But I always I always laugh and I'm like, just look above them all.

[00:15:52] You know, just find something in the room or something in the environment to focus on. And the other thing is, you know, people should remember if they're giving a speech, at least, that the audience is there to listen to you. And, you know, it's it's your be proud of who you are and be proud of the prep that you've done and all that kind of good stuff. But as you're saying, no matter how much prep and how much practice and how much standing in front of the mirror we can do in practicing the speech, the voice of we're still nervous, it's going to give it away.

[00:16:16] So do you when you're working with men and women on this, how long? And I know this is probably this might be a tough question, but generally, how long do you think it takes for people to kind of learn to love their voice, to learn to accept it? And in some ways to learn how to regulate it in ways that are that are additive for them? Of course, everybody's different and it's individual cases.

[00:16:40] What I will say, usually it takes about four sessions to understand the true reason, because at first we need to create that trust and rapport in which we can find the deeper psychological reason. And for that, usually we take about four sessions to get deep into what's actually happening.

[00:17:02] Because every week the person opens up a little bit more or they might not be aware, but with the work we start, the process begins and something comes up from the psyche. Some processes begin inside and then over a period of a month, if we do it weekly, we can find the truth.

[00:17:21] And afterwards, I would say maybe one or two months just of practicing, of understanding the technical details of how you can manipulate your voice and have control over it. And that you are not stuck with one particular tone. Yes, you have a timbre of your voice, which is particular to you. And that represents in a way, I really like this metaphor that it's almost like a part of your soul. Yeah. Because it's unique to you, it's like your fingerprints.

[00:17:51] And you not only can love it, you can be proud of it, because it's unique, nobody else can speak like you. Yeah, and at the same time, if you don't like something about it, of course we can change how high you sound or how low, if you want to cross as more powerful or lighter. And all of this is welcome. And I think the beauty of the voice is in its variety, when you can be different and express yourself different.

[00:18:18] And so you have that flexibility in your psyche and in your voice. Well, I love what you said about like everyone's voice is unique. I mean, you know, and truly unique. And there's so, I think in this society where, you know, people just crave so many things, it's nice to know that we all have something that sets us apart from each other. Because I think that we often lose sight of that. You know, I just think that's so incredibly important.

[00:18:43] I think also what's interesting about this is recognition of why you don't like something increases your vulnerability with people, increases one's vulnerability. So when people have to think a lot about why I don't like my voice or why I don't like my tone, that probably leads them, I would think, to discover other things about themselves. Is that true? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there is a deep dive to take.

[00:19:10] And very often it will lead us to shame. Unprocessed, unrecognized sense of shame that lingers from childhood, of course, usually. Yeah. And the majority of people are not in touch with that emotion because it's so, so hard, so tough. And nobody wants to say, oh yeah, I'm ashamed of myself. Come on.

[00:19:34] You might say 50 times, I'm afraid of public speaking and I don't want for people to look at me. But what's really behind that is that if somebody is going to look at me, they will see something that is so horrible about me that I'm not okay, that I'm not what I'm trying to present. And therefore, I will be rejected and I won't be loved. I will be alone.

[00:19:58] So deep down there is a sense of shame which will lead us to the loneliness. And as we know, it used to be loneliness meant death. That's why we compare the fear of public speaking with the fear of death and the intensity of it.

[00:20:16] So obviously, when we start working with the voice, very often it leads us towards that initial trauma of usually parents' manipulation or whoever was there. The strong person. Yeah, strong person, meaningful person who created that and we have to uncover it. And from a grown-up point of view, adult will look at it and understand that they are fine.

[00:20:43] So because what lays underneath the trauma of shame is a deep sense of a belief that I am not okay. Right, right, right. And where we lead ourselves through this work is that actually I am fine. I am not supposed to be perfect. And if I am on stage and I do public speaking, I might say something wrong. I might not always be graceful and perfect. But it's okay because I am a human.

[00:21:13] And this way we just take off a huge amount of pressure. Yes, I was going to say because someone said to me once, if you don't love yourself, then who will? And as simple as that is, it kind of goes to what you're saying is like individuals can learn to accept themselves through the good, the bad, and the ugly, you know, because no one's perfect. And if they are, if they think they're perfect, then they're really imperfect.

[00:21:36] But if you can learn to love yourself, then I think as you're getting at that confidence in that presence, right, both the physical presence and the vocal presence and the emotional presence, all those things come together. So to your point, when that person does get up on stage to give a speech or does do a webinar with someone or does even partake in a one-on-one in-person conversation, they exude that security with themselves, right?

[00:22:06] Love might be too big of a word, but they're good. They're okay with who they are. And that strikes me that that is one of the most important things in making sure that that voice reflects who we want it to reflect and that it's more easily that we can accept it. Does that make any sense? Yeah, absolutely. It's made me think that people do not connect to us because we are perfect.

[00:22:34] We actually connect to each other when we show our vulnerabilities. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And as I was saying earlier, like, you know, for a lot of people, that can be very, it can be terrifying showing your vulnerability. Oh, yeah. Because once they have done it and they were rejected and they have learned the pattern, this is not safe.

[00:22:54] So now I'm going to be this perfect self and the amount of pressure it creates inside and plus it creates this narcissistic trauma in which your psyche literally splits. And so I am perfect and I am nothing. And you live in this cage between the two ideas. That's right. That's right. And I think, you know, it's as we've discussed, like vulnerability is hard and it's hard for everyone. And I think what makes it harder is in this society that's dominated.

[00:23:23] I'll bring it up by social media where everyone tries to show that their life is wonderful and perfect. We all know deep down inside that's not the case. But I think that magnifies it. I wanted to ask you, have you in your work since COVID has ended, have you found, I mean, honestly, are you busier? Like, are you getting more people coming to you? Because I know in my work that COVID really hit people very hard, a lot of people. And I've had people say to me, I was super social before COVID.

[00:23:51] I was very conversant, you know, great conversationalist. And now I'm afraid to talk to people. And if you are saying that, how are you helping people overcome that fear that developed from being home for so long? I would say that COVID definitely had an effect on our mental state. And therefore, people who work in the mental health profession did receive more clients. Absolutely so. And personally had more therapy done on themselves too.

[00:24:20] Every coach I know has like three coaches that they work with. It's too funny. Yeah. Yeah. As for the communication, I think a lot of it actually is defined, I don't know if by COVID, but I think by the social media. Yeah. I think we get this idea of being connected somehow and being social while we are not. We are sitting at home, yet we are looking at somebody else's life and we feel like we're connected, but it's a fake connection. Yeah.

[00:24:46] And it's just way too cozy to sit with your phone rather than spend your energy on humans trying to figure out how the social environment works. And now, I mean, you know, all the AI devices, like the fact that you can talk to them, have a conversation with them. I know like ChatGPT, like the newest version 5.2, it's conversant. I know our Alexa that we have in the house, the new version of it in states. You can talk to it without having to keep repeating its name.

[00:25:15] So, you know, the technology is getting to the point where you can have your phone or your AI device become your best friend, which isn't good. You know, it's not good. As you're saying, like people have these false sons of friends and you can't really be friends with a robot. But that's what some people would argue. Well, no, there was a news story out of Japan where a woman married her AI bot. Yeah, voila. They had a formal ceremony and everything.

[00:25:45] And I will say when I heard that story, it stopped and made me think. But it is interesting how people, to your point, people do have this false sense of community and false sense of friendships from their digital connections.

[00:26:04] Do you feel that we also became kind of more aware of the connections that are making us happy and those that are just useless spend of time or draining energy? I personally feel that this is what's happening and therefore we are more selective. Well, I know I've become a lot.

[00:26:27] I mean, there are, I guess, two people that aren't friends anymore. I don't know how else to put it. You know, I have a girlfriend who's, I won't say her name, but she's famous for saying sometimes you need to thin the herd, right? You need to like purge friendships that drain. And I know personally I had two that were people that I had known forever, like forever meaning more than 10 years.

[00:26:51] And after what I went through with my whole health journey, you know, when you almost die, as I've said to people, it's a really good opportunity to see who your friends are. And it's kind of, it's so morbid for saying, but it's almost like getting a preview about your funeral is going to be like, like, who's going to show up? And from my experience, I had people that I, we all have, you know, friends, acquaintances, people in our community, you know, and family. We'll put it in those four categories. And I had people that were in my community and acquaintances.

[00:27:19] So weren't like close, close friends who showed up in ways that still shock me. I did not realize how much these people cared. And that was incredible. Likewise, there were people that I had known for 10, 20 years who didn't show up at all. And again, two people specifically. And when I looked back on those friendships, you know, I thought about it.

[00:27:46] I was like, you know, I'd been doing all the work and that was okay for a long time. But it wasn't okay when I really needed them, you know. And so I made the very, very difficult decision to discontinue those relationships. And I didn't just like stop texting the person. Like, I explained why. And it was, you know, not an easy, it was a conversation. It was not a text. It was not a voice memo. It was an actual conversation. And I explained why.

[00:28:16] And that was not easy to do. So to your point, I think that the pace of life has increased tremendously. And it's not slowing down because of AI, as we were talking about before. And I think that for many people, it has made us stop and think about who really matters. You know, there's that famous TED talk about the givers and takers. And I know that I really try to surround myself with people who like to give.

[00:28:46] Because I like to give. I like to mentor. I like to coach. I like to advise. I like to teach. I like to do all of that stuff. I like to support people however I can. And the takers, I have tried to, you know, pull them out and make them less of an influence in my life because I found that they were sucking energy from me. And it was energy that I didn't have, you know, when I was going through my health recovery. And I do miss, I miss those people. But I don't miss the stress that came with those friendships. I don't know if you've made decisions like that.

[00:29:15] They were tough. But, you know, I feel it wasn't easy to make. But I'm glad that I made those decisions, if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This happens. I think as we go through life, we change as our personality we develop. We are not who we were 10 years ago. And therefore, we cannot sometimes keep the same connections because we just grow apart. This is normal. I think it should be in, sometimes it's hard, but I think it should be a natural feeling to

[00:29:43] let go of those relationships when you feel that they're just, they don't fit anymore to the new version of who you are. And that's fine. There is nothing wrong there. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It was hard to do. You know, it was super hard to do. But I think, you know, going back to what we've been talking about, I think it's about as far as communication and voice and all of that. I think it's so incredibly important for people to understand that, you know, the concept

[00:30:11] of, you know, we'll call it self-love. It's as much on the outside as it is on the inside. And the inside part is probably more important than the outside part. You know, we're also, people's society is so focused on, you know, trying to fix things, right? And usually we try to fix things that people see, right? And so that usually falls into the physical space. And if you look at the beauty industry, like the skincare industry, like there's billions of dollars of products on the market that are supposed to help you get rid of lines, fine pores, blah, blah, blah. You know, you name it. But the reality is the beauty starts from within.

[00:30:41] And, you know, this important of loving your voice. And I think, you know, what that reflects, what the voice carries, the emotion it carries. It's so incredibly important. So I just thank you for bringing that up today and sharing your backstory on that with us. And I think, do you have any, like for anyone who's listening, who just like can't stand the sound of their voice, is really afraid to get up and give a speech or even just have a one-on-one conversation. What are some tips that you have for people?

[00:31:11] I always invite people to start with their breathing and pay attention to how deeply they can breathe. Where do they breathe? And the majority of people don't know how to breathe. Unfortunately, we live with so much stress and tension in the body that we breathe with the top of our lungs, which is somewhere around our shoulders. And if you pay attention, if I ask you right now to breathe in, you will probably 90% of

[00:31:40] people will do like, they will fill up their lungs to the point that their necks shorten, right? And the shoulders go up. And this breathing in no way helps you to calm down. Or create beautiful sound of your voice. Whereas if we learn to breathe into our diaphragm and think about kind of the level of the stomach down there, and if we breathe in that area, we will suddenly feel that our larynx in the

[00:32:09] throat has moved a little bit down and the voice has deepened naturally. And you will hear more relaxed sound. So also with this deep breathing, we give our nervous system a signal to relax. We engage vagus nerve and we engage our parasympathetic nervous system. So there is a cascade of reactions that we can do just by learning to breathe correctly.

[00:32:36] And this is a necessary step in the work that I'm doing with my clients is the first thing we start doing on the physical level is learning to breathe correctly. And from that, direct our voice to our liking. So I would say in any situation where you feel stressed, something is not working out, take a deep breath into your stomach and slowly breathe out. And you will see how the whole body relaxes and your brain can think even more clearly. Well, yes.

[00:33:06] And I think just like we have all the time in the world in many ways and in other ways we don't. And I think learning to take a deep breath in the proper way, as you're saying, and just kind of let our bodies go. So important. It helps so much. I love that. Thank you for sharing that tip. So Marina, what's the best, pardon me, what's the best way for people to get ahold of you? I know I met you on LinkedIn, but apart from LinkedIn, how can people contact you? You can find me on Instagram.

[00:33:34] I think it's marinarobbinspsi. And yeah, and I think LinkedIn is the best one. You can also just go to my website, marinarobbins.com and fill out the connection form. Wonderful. Okay, excellent. Well, thank you for joining us from the beautiful city of Barcelona today. And I appreciate the conversation and love, love, love what you shared with us about the voice and confidence and resilience and your story.

[00:34:04] So thank you for being here. Thank you, Catherine. It's been great. My pleasure. And thank you all for listening to another episode of the Gut Punch podcast. We'll talk to you next week. Bye-bye. Bye. That's it for today's episode of Gut Punch. I hope you found inspiration because no matter how hard life hits, there's always a way forward. Make sure to follow or subscribe to Gut Punch on your favorite podcast platform. If you know someone who could use a little inspiration, share this episode with them.

[00:34:34] Thanks for listening. And until next time, stay strong. See you in the next episode.