If You’re Involved You Own It- Extreme Ownership for IT Leaders with Brian Burk

[00:00:10] Hey there friend, you're listening to the Hot Mess Hotline and this is Stefanie Krievins.

[00:00:16] You are in the right place if you're an ambitious leader who's charged with delivering on the

[00:00:20] tech of the future right now.

[00:00:22] In order to do that, you and your team must upskill and tackle old problems with new ways

[00:00:29] of thinking.

[00:00:30] In the past we would have called this change management and leadership development.

[00:00:34] But change is now the air we breathe and your team needs a unified strategy for

[00:00:39] the 21st century.

[00:00:41] That's what we have for you right here.

[00:00:43] These executive level conversations are nuanced, insightful and hard earned lessons that you

[00:00:49] can put into practice as soon as this episode is over.

[00:00:54] Small tweaks have huge impact.

[00:00:56] Take what's new and useful to you and leave the rest.

[00:01:00] Today's conversation is with Brian Burke.

[00:01:02] He began his healthcare and life science career as a pharmaceutical and medical device

[00:01:07] representative.

[00:01:08] And now he is a successful serial healthcare tech entrepreneur who's won multiple awards

[00:01:16] along the way.

[00:01:17] He's going to tell us about his experience at a recent healthcare tech company and how

[00:01:22] he made them even more successful in his tenure there.

[00:01:26] But I think what's most important is if you get to know Brian, if you spend any

[00:01:30] amount of time with him, you're not just going to hear about his successful career

[00:01:34] and what he's done in business.

[00:01:36] He's going to tell you about what a proud dad he is and the amount of unplugged time that

[00:01:41] he spends with his family as much as possible to balance out all that technology trouble

[00:01:47] he gets into on a daily basis.

[00:01:49] All right, with that, let's get into this conversation and how Brian experienced a

[00:01:54] new culture around we don't do that around here and what Brian did to address it.

[00:02:00] Let's go.

[00:02:01] Brian, tell us about your hot mess, please.

[00:02:04] I walked in the door three years ago during the height of COVID to what I would

[00:02:10] affectionately call 21 year old startup.

[00:02:14] The founder still here, still contributing top line positive, bottom line positive,

[00:02:21] but lots and lots of operational problems.

[00:02:25] In addition, brand new office no one ever moved into and no one's ever worked

[00:02:30] remote.

[00:02:31] Now, how do you fix all of the things that are going wrong when no one there's

[00:02:37] no plan?

[00:02:38] There's no people and we're doing health care.

[00:02:42] So we actually power more than 250 clinical care locations 24 seven.

[00:02:48] No room for error.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:51] That was my hot mess.

[00:02:53] I love it.

[00:02:54] So your clients are in a hot mess so we know their attention span is everywhere

[00:02:58] but they have some really critical needs from their technology provider.

[00:03:02] I'm going to add to and tell me if I'm off base when you're top line positive,

[00:03:07] bottom line positive, operationally people don't have a big incentive to

[00:03:12] change because a lot of the metrics we look to to say are we being

[00:03:17] successful in your case or being successful?

[00:03:20] Agree or disagree?

[00:03:21] Oh, absolutely.

[00:03:22] What I inherited was right as folks, this is the way we've always done it.

[00:03:26] Yep.

[00:03:27] And one of the things I was able to share is that the majority of the

[00:03:32] decisions made in the past were the right ones.

[00:03:34] However, clients have evolved, technology has evolved, competition has

[00:03:41] evolved and COVID right?

[00:03:43] So now there's a whole other set of needs that's evolved.

[00:03:46] Yeah.

[00:03:46] Just a global freaking pandemic.

[00:03:48] No big deal.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:50] So we we have to make new decisions while still preserving and not

[00:03:56] stepping on toes, right?

[00:03:58] Because folks will say, hey, I've always done it this way.

[00:04:00] You know, it brings me out.

[00:04:01] I love this little anecdote story is three generations of women are in the

[00:04:08] kitchen.

[00:04:09] So there's the guy's wife, his mother-in-law and his grandmother-in-law.

[00:04:14] And his wife cuts the end of the ham off and puts it in a pan and puts

[00:04:17] it in the oven and he said, hey honey, I don't know why but why'd you cut

[00:04:21] the end of the ham off?

[00:04:21] And she almost chastises him a little bit and says, well, why would you ask?

[00:04:26] Right? That's just how you do it.

[00:04:27] Yeah.

[00:04:27] You don't cook and she said, mom, tell him.

[00:04:30] And she says, well, that's the way I was taught.

[00:04:32] And she says, grandma, tell him.

[00:04:35] She says, girls, I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:04:38] I had to cut the end of the ham off because at that time that was all

[00:04:42] the bigger size of pan that I had.

[00:04:45] Yes.

[00:04:45] In order to put it in the oven.

[00:04:47] Yes.

[00:04:49] So we often inherit decisions of predecessors or processes or even

[00:04:55] the ethos of the ecosystem are in and it's not to be challenging

[00:05:00] everything as in rebellion.

[00:05:02] It's to challenge yourself, can we do better?

[00:05:04] Yes.

[00:05:05] Yes.

[00:05:05] Because constraints change.

[00:05:08] They do.

[00:05:09] Yes.

[00:05:09] Moore's law of processing power, except for all that changes.

[00:05:13] So, so do margins and everything else.

[00:05:17] Yep.

[00:05:18] So that was the hot mess now knowing that we have to change things.

[00:05:24] The challenge is, is great.

[00:05:26] Where do you get new ideas?

[00:05:28] Because inherent with what I came with the 21-year-old company

[00:05:35] startup is that the majority of people had been here for the

[00:05:39] shortest was eight years, but most folks were here for 10 to

[00:05:43] 20 years.

[00:05:45] So that means there's a lot of endogenous thinking.

[00:05:50] Endogenous thinking?

[00:05:52] What does that mean?

[00:05:54] So, meaning within, within.

[00:05:57] And so that's a politically tactful way of sharing that is a

[00:06:01] closed door system.

[00:06:03] Oh, I've never heard that word before.

[00:06:05] Okay.

[00:06:05] All right, cool.

[00:06:06] So how do I introduce the opposite?

[00:06:09] Exogenous thinking, factors from the outside and bring them

[00:06:13] in and how will they not be ruffle feathers?

[00:06:18] How can we integrate new ideas and yet change that

[00:06:23] tire while the car is still moving?

[00:06:26] Yes.

[00:06:26] So my question for you is at this stage of the story, why then?

[00:06:32] Why you?

[00:06:33] Why?

[00:06:34] So, hierarchically answering that is what I believe in

[00:06:39] retrospect, I was it was inferred but never really

[00:06:42] spelled out to me.

[00:06:43] I was brought in because of the role that I had before

[00:06:47] this was a enterprise scale.

[00:06:50] Right.

[00:06:50] I was a global leader of healthcare at Verizon.

[00:06:54] And before that it have run other enterprise scale

[00:06:58] companies in healthcare technology.

[00:07:01] So I believe that was and the owners and the board shared

[00:07:06] that they know that they had growth issues that the

[00:07:08] company was steady state and really wasn't having the

[00:07:11] growth that one would think it should have.

[00:07:14] Okay.

[00:07:14] And at the same time, they had been experiencing more

[00:07:17] and more technology issues with their provider.

[00:07:22] Because of that, right?

[00:07:23] So we had service issue.

[00:07:25] We had global pandemic issue.

[00:07:28] And then we have financial issue.

[00:07:29] Hey, how can we make more money?

[00:07:31] Yes.

[00:07:32] Yeah.

[00:07:33] Well, in most astute business owners, you can feel

[00:07:37] the plateau coming in your growth before it shows up

[00:07:40] in the numbers.

[00:07:41] I believe, I mean, I feel like I see that in my

[00:07:44] business and we're a tiny team.

[00:07:45] But you feel the plateau coming before it shows up

[00:07:49] in the financials.

[00:07:50] And if you're paying attention to your external

[00:07:52] environment, you're like, we should be doing

[00:07:55] more than this.

[00:07:56] We shouldn't be serving more.

[00:07:57] We like the pain is so great out there.

[00:08:00] We should be doing more to solve it, but we're not.

[00:08:02] So what's, what's a miss?

[00:08:04] So those indicators were there, but they prior to

[00:08:08] my coming COVID just exacerbated that.

[00:08:12] Right.

[00:08:13] But those indicators weren't, weren't remediated.

[00:08:15] So that was part of the ask is, or part of the

[00:08:18] directives, not the asked by the board is to stop

[00:08:22] that.

[00:08:23] One of the first things I did is require everyone

[00:08:25] to turn their camera on.

[00:08:26] So because they were so used to working with

[00:08:29] each other and walking down the hall and

[00:08:31] connecting, but now they weren't.

[00:08:34] And I knew that productivity was lost that

[00:08:36] it what it is is that human capital, that

[00:08:38] human exchange.

[00:08:40] Yep.

[00:08:40] So they had been using technology, but only

[00:08:43] as a phone call and why is cause no one's really

[00:08:47] used to working.

[00:08:48] The world wasn't used to working remotely.

[00:08:50] So one of the things I immediately changed

[00:08:52] as company policy was that the cameras had to

[00:08:55] be on.

[00:08:56] And for a while, I saw lots of unmade

[00:08:58] beds, top wear on top of the refrigerator.

[00:09:01] And then we, it sounds simple, but just everyone

[00:09:04] had to wear a collared shirt and use our

[00:09:07] digital background, right?

[00:09:09] Unless you're in the office.

[00:09:11] So it brought everyone in a kind of unified, right?

[00:09:14] Trying to get everyone unified.

[00:09:16] One of the next things I did is then I invited

[00:09:18] the entire leadership team and we did a six

[00:09:21] weeks of going through playing to win.

[00:09:24] So playing to win is by a Lathley and

[00:09:27] Martin and it's a series of five real

[00:09:31] simplistic cascading questions.

[00:09:33] There's lots of strategy books out there.

[00:09:35] Yeah.

[00:09:36] You and I've read many of them and

[00:09:38] there's how to do a business plan.

[00:09:39] This is but one of them.

[00:09:40] It's a very good one.

[00:09:42] And, but when I asked everyone, what's the aspiration?

[00:09:45] Right?

[00:09:46] What's the aspiration of this company?

[00:09:48] And then, okay, got it.

[00:09:50] Where?

[00:09:51] Where precisely are we gonna play?

[00:09:53] And then how will we win?

[00:09:54] Not how will we play?

[00:09:56] His playing just means that you're

[00:09:57] eventually gonna go out of business.

[00:09:59] Oh, okay.

[00:10:00] Okay.

[00:10:01] Right?

[00:10:02] How do you play to win?

[00:10:03] That's different.

[00:10:04] And then if we wanna win, what do we need

[00:10:06] to get there?

[00:10:07] What systems and people and capabilities?

[00:10:11] And then what's required for management?

[00:10:13] That was the last thing.

[00:10:14] So we did six weeks of that.

[00:10:16] So that way they were able to the first time

[00:10:19] help design the company's future.

[00:10:22] Which also means that you have to address

[00:10:24] the lacks of that day.

[00:10:26] Right?

[00:10:26] Those elements that are lacking.

[00:10:28] So now that we have that, then there's the other.

[00:10:30] It's kind of like, okay, if we know

[00:10:33] we're gonna do this journey, we know we need this.

[00:10:36] Looking around, we may not have all the parts we need.

[00:10:40] Yes.

[00:10:42] Can I ask you a question?

[00:10:43] You said, we have to be willing to admit

[00:10:45] what we're lacking, which would be willing

[00:10:47] to share what some of those were that you discovered

[00:10:52] during that process?

[00:10:53] Yeah.

[00:10:54] So keeping in line with those five

[00:10:57] cascading dependent questions,

[00:11:00] I didn't have one sentence.

[00:11:01] I didn't have, which was key, what is the aspiration?

[00:11:05] It's kind of like, as a person, I think that

[00:11:08] we all should be able to answer what's your purpose in life.

[00:11:12] Yes.

[00:11:12] As a human, we should each be able to answer that

[00:11:16] and that's critical to get out of bed and what we do.

[00:11:19] And then that sets the guidance for so much else.

[00:11:21] For a company, that seminal question

[00:11:24] is also very important.

[00:11:26] Right?

[00:11:27] What's your aspiration?

[00:11:28] So, great.

[00:11:29] And then where do you want,

[00:11:31] because we can't be all things to all people.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:34] So those beliefs and understanding and clarity,

[00:11:38] there was no two people saying the same thing.

[00:11:41] Okay.

[00:11:42] Again, the lack of cohesion, the lack of unity,

[00:11:44] the lack of, I mean, there were obviously things

[00:11:47] that held the culture together,

[00:11:48] but some of these what we would call business fundamentals

[00:11:51] for the 21st century were not there.

[00:11:53] There was at what the company functioned at that time,

[00:11:56] right, is sociologically it functioned as a tribe.

[00:12:00] So what was the true problem is sociologically

[00:12:04] a tribe is typically up to 12 people.

[00:12:07] When I came in, it was 45 people.

[00:12:10] Oh gosh, yep.

[00:12:11] So you had great inefficiency and you had bottlenecks

[00:12:16] where you had just because of that function.

[00:12:19] Yes.

[00:12:19] So everyone wants to reorg,

[00:12:21] but that's just moving players around

[00:12:24] but for what purpose, right?

[00:12:25] So we had to align as aspiration where what's needed

[00:12:30] and designing all those out

[00:12:31] and then making sure, okay, who's responsible.

[00:12:35] Yes.

[00:12:35] Well, and I'm thinking of,

[00:12:37] and I'm assuming you've read the book,

[00:12:38] Blitzscaling that does a great job

[00:12:40] of like helping leaders understand the limits

[00:12:43] to the type of culture you can have at your head count size.

[00:12:47] Yep.

[00:12:47] And I found too many cultures are trying to hold on

[00:12:51] to that tribal wave being at 44 people

[00:12:55] or the, and forgive me,

[00:12:57] those the labels from that book

[00:12:58] aren't in the top of my head,

[00:12:59] but we can put the link in the show notes

[00:13:01] cause it's a fabulous book, very, very helpful.

[00:13:04] You know, you're trying to operate

[00:13:06] like a 75 person culture at a 575 person culture.

[00:13:10] The tools are not the same.

[00:13:12] The leadership style is not the same.

[00:13:14] The hierarchy is not the same.

[00:13:16] It does not gel.

[00:13:18] And so leaders have to learn how to lead at the level.

[00:13:21] Employees have to learn to be in the culture

[00:13:24] that they're in versus trying to hold onto their tribe

[00:13:27] that they used to have.

[00:13:28] Yep.

[00:13:29] I oversimplified it and I used the terms

[00:13:33] and of it's a tribe was a community

[00:13:36] and then we're a society.

[00:13:38] So, and similar to that book,

[00:13:41] Crossing the Chasm above 12

[00:13:44] and you get to the community

[00:13:45] but when you get up to 100, now you're a society.

[00:13:48] Yep.

[00:13:49] So, and there's arbitrary numbers in here

[00:13:52] and you can prove that was basically

[00:13:53] what we had to address.

[00:13:55] Yes.

[00:13:56] And then in doing so, well, great.

[00:13:59] There was a lot of wonderful relationships,

[00:14:01] a lot of wonderful tribal knowledge

[00:14:04] and great artistry with many of the people here

[00:14:08] of maintaining the legacy systems.

[00:14:11] Really top craftspeople

[00:14:14] but some of the technology instruments had progressed.

[00:14:19] They say they're not called legacy systems

[00:14:21] for a good reason.

[00:14:22] Exactly.

[00:14:24] So, so now facing that and how do I do that?

[00:14:30] So what I embarked on the journey

[00:14:33] and we've completed that journey

[00:14:36] and now we are scaling.

[00:14:38] Yes.

[00:14:39] And how to execute against that same hot mess.

[00:14:42] Now, how do I execute against it?

[00:14:45] So we needed three pieces of knowledge needed, right?

[00:14:49] You hire people for knowledge, skill or talent.

[00:14:53] Talent's inherent, skill you develop, knowledge you buy.

[00:14:57] So the team, while they had a lot of knowledge

[00:15:01] and some skill and what they lacked is

[00:15:05] I'll call it in business processes.

[00:15:08] So I brought in, and there's many things

[00:15:11] I brought in what I thought were three of the most easy.

[00:15:14] You may be aware

[00:15:15] but the first PR firm in the United States

[00:15:18] was started by Ivy, I think was Led Better Lee, Ivy Lee.

[00:15:23] And he and his partners, the Rockefeller Group

[00:15:28] was their first client and then the Railroad.

[00:15:31] So this is in the early 1900s.

[00:15:33] So we have a lot to do and when we did this

[00:15:35] how do you keep it all?

[00:15:36] Because especially if you're in tech

[00:15:37] you wanna over engineer.

[00:15:40] So Ivy Lee has something called the Sacred Six.

[00:15:44] So every day the team has to write down

[00:15:47] what are there six in sequential order

[00:15:50] the most important tasks

[00:15:51] they're gonna get done in that day.

[00:15:52] You don't go to task number two

[00:15:53] until task number one is done.

[00:15:55] Nice.

[00:15:56] Old analog proficiency.

[00:15:59] You know we're trying to move forward in our technology.

[00:16:03] Number two is now you have a lot of technologists

[00:16:05] but you don't know how to handle something new

[00:16:08] and you're gonna have a conflict.

[00:16:09] Stephanie if you and I say hey

[00:16:11] we're gonna make a new wisdom

[00:16:13] and you have idea A and I have idea B

[00:16:16] how do we reconcile that?

[00:16:18] So I employed the Thomas Kilman conflict resolution mom.

[00:16:25] So that way everyone would kinda recognize

[00:16:28] how they individually cause we all have at least one

[00:16:31] or a couple of default methods that we handle

[00:16:34] and if you're a real dominant person

[00:16:37] and you like to compete

[00:16:39] well then the really smart collaborator

[00:16:42] or accommodating person

[00:16:43] their pearls of wisdom are never gonna get applied

[00:16:46] and it's always gonna be.

[00:16:48] And then in order to the third I'll call it

[00:16:51] so that was kind of a how do you handle conflict

[00:16:54] right when that's gonna happen?

[00:16:55] How do you prioritize?

[00:16:56] Yep.

[00:16:57] But now who does what?

[00:16:59] And understanding because now if you had a tribe

[00:17:02] now the tribes community.

[00:17:04] Everyone also went through extreme leadership

[00:17:07] by Jaco Willink,

[00:17:10] Navy SEAL and the Navy SEAL leadership training programs

[00:17:15] principles excuse me

[00:17:17] and what I did is rather than I lead those

[00:17:21] because no one's gonna speak right in my position

[00:17:23] no one's gonna speak everyone's just gonna say yes.

[00:17:25] Yes.

[00:17:26] So I brought an exogenous author leader in

[00:17:30] who lives this right?

[00:17:32] So it was a former 82nd Airborne Ranger

[00:17:35] and in all types of credentials and published author

[00:17:40] to lead my teams

[00:17:42] and through 12 week sessions of actually using this

[00:17:47] but applying it every single week

[00:17:49] to what was literally happening in the company.

[00:17:51] So this wasn't theory.

[00:17:54] This was literally workshopping through real life

[00:17:56] what's happening right now for accountability.

[00:18:00] Read back, how are we prioritizing?

[00:18:02] Okay that conflict happened.

[00:18:04] How did you resolve it?

[00:18:05] And then workshopping with it.

[00:18:07] With real topics.

[00:18:08] So it was like playing with live fire.

[00:18:12] I like it, I like it.

[00:18:14] So for those just to level set for all of our listeners

[00:18:18] you know what's the definition of extreme ownership

[00:18:20] that you all use?

[00:18:22] If you're involved you own it.

[00:18:24] So there is not a owner of the project of the outcome.

[00:18:29] Okay.

[00:18:30] If you're involved you own it because you may

[00:18:33] you may be the lowest person in the hierarchy rank

[00:18:37] but if you're involved you own it.

[00:18:39] And so you're just as responsible as anybody else

[00:18:42] for the result that that project gets.

[00:18:44] Absolutely.

[00:18:45] Got it right?

[00:18:46] Okay.

[00:18:47] You are required not only empowered

[00:18:48] but you are required to manage up,

[00:18:52] manage sideways, manage down and communicate.

[00:18:56] And that's why there is not the fictitious open door.

[00:19:02] So that way those should be quickly remediated

[00:19:06] and if they're not and you agree to disagree

[00:19:09] using the Thomas Kilman Convict Resolution Models

[00:19:12] yeah then bring it to and until it's you're satiated.

[00:19:16] Right?

[00:19:17] Until it's not to you gave up to your satiated

[00:19:20] that it has been addressed.

[00:19:22] I think that's a really important distinction

[00:19:24] and it's top of mind for me

[00:19:26] because I just facilitated a group where they

[00:19:30] the lack of decision because people can't come

[00:19:32] to agreement becomes the decision

[00:19:34] so things don't move forward

[00:19:35] which is very common in American work culture

[00:19:40] especially I live in the Midwest where we do Midwest nice

[00:19:43] and people disagree to disagree

[00:19:45] and then they separate and then things don't move forward

[00:19:48] from your perspective.

[00:19:50] What does that practically look like

[00:19:52] when let's say a systems coordinator

[00:19:55] I'm making this up disagrees with the systems engineer

[00:19:59] how do they find resolution?

[00:20:00] Answering your question first

[00:20:01] with what I can constantly ask everyone

[00:20:06] choose your heart.

[00:20:09] It is hard to go out of your comfort zone

[00:20:12] to employ conflict resolution

[00:20:16] to conflict with a superior

[00:20:19] to conflict with another department

[00:20:22] to push your viewpoint that is hard

[00:20:24] but it's also harder for the project to fail.

[00:20:29] It's harder for the company to lose money

[00:20:32] to have maybe have to do layoffs.

[00:20:35] Choose your heart.

[00:20:36] It's hard to raise that up

[00:20:40] but it's also hard to have that burning in your belly

[00:20:43] that your ideas weren't heard.

[00:20:46] Yep.

[00:20:47] So I choose your heart is what we constantly

[00:20:52] ask of our team and then also with that

[00:20:57] is making sure that we everyone is what's the readback

[00:21:01] as part of that right is okay this is the outcome

[00:21:04] explain it back to me or explain your task

[00:21:07] or explain back to me in your own words.

[00:21:09] Nice.

[00:21:10] What that is and that is again a SEAL leadership training

[00:21:15] because in theater crisp clear short precise communication

[00:21:22] is critical.

[00:21:23] Yes.

[00:21:24] If you need two sentences

[00:21:25] you know that you've you know you're over communicate.

[00:21:30] Okay.

[00:21:31] Right.

[00:21:32] Think about being on a hot mic

[00:21:34] and you're talking that much now you're shot.

[00:21:36] Yes.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:38] So choose your heart do the readback.

[00:21:41] Are there more?

[00:21:41] There is so we've employed

[00:21:43] and there's a number of those right

[00:21:45] in order to crystallize what everyone's working on

[00:21:49] we did employ project managers.

[00:21:51] Right.

[00:21:52] So I brought certified PMPs in

[00:21:55] they worked here prior to that

[00:21:57] but the other is there's different tools

[00:21:59] and I use a SARG tool and an eight stage business case.

[00:22:03] Okay.

[00:22:04] So depending upon what it is is the readback that we ask

[00:22:08] is like a sit rep or a sitcom not situational comedy

[00:22:14] but.

[00:22:15] That was like, huh?

[00:22:17] Meaning that what is for what's being discussed

[00:22:21] and what's being brought what is the situation

[00:22:24] what is the analysis.

[00:22:25] S A R what is the recommendations.

[00:22:29] Okay.

[00:22:30] G following the acronym is what's gained or lost

[00:22:33] and then E is the human interest element

[00:22:35] the extra SARG situation analysis recommendation

[00:22:38] gain loss or anything extra.

[00:22:40] Okay.

[00:22:41] That's a fancy way of saying

[00:22:42] if you can't tell the problem

[00:22:44] and the solution on a half sheet of paper

[00:22:46] you don't understand it.

[00:22:47] Yes.

[00:22:48] So that way it's salient right now you have

[00:22:52] a crisp cohesive here's the situation

[00:22:55] here's the analysis because maybe your analysis

[00:22:57] when you share with someone else they say

[00:22:59] ah this is what you missed

[00:23:00] your recommendations I didn't think of it

[00:23:02] now that makes sense.

[00:23:03] Oh, I didn't understand that we would gain that

[00:23:05] I didn't understand that we would lose that

[00:23:07] if we did the other.

[00:23:08] Yep.

[00:23:09] So now you have it tight in one page

[00:23:12] where folks can understand and see the totality

[00:23:15] that would be I'll call it a key piece

[00:23:18] in order for folks to be able to make those communications

[00:23:21] and all communications are required

[00:23:23] business processes to have those elements.

[00:23:26] Okay.

[00:23:27] That's really helpful.

[00:23:28] That's really helpful.

[00:23:29] Especially for teams that I find a lot of groups

[00:23:32] love to spend about I'm just using this by way of example

[00:23:36] three minutes on the problem

[00:23:38] and 57 minutes on the solution

[00:23:40] and everyone is very lost in terms of what problem

[00:23:43] they're solving for

[00:23:44] and there's a school of thought that says

[00:23:46] spend 55 minutes identifying the problem

[00:23:49] and all you need is the five minutes

[00:23:51] to identify the solution and move forward

[00:23:53] and this is a detailed way to do that.

[00:23:55] I don't know why but the ledge statement

[00:23:56] by Abraham Lincoln is I have three hours to cut wood

[00:24:01] I'll spend two hours sharpening the axe.

[00:24:04] Yep.

[00:24:04] Right?

[00:24:05] So I feel that that's somewhat applicable here.

[00:24:08] No, that's exactly right.

[00:24:09] That's really helpful.

[00:24:10] So you came in and instituted implemented

[00:24:14] some formal skill development.

[00:24:17] You added talent.

[00:24:19] You added knowledge to the organization

[00:24:22] which meant adding training but also adding people

[00:24:25] through by adding the PMO function.

[00:24:28] What progress did you see your organization make

[00:24:31] over the past several years?

[00:24:34] Yeah.

[00:24:35] So as a you're exactly right

[00:24:37] and I'll call it to add to that

[00:24:39] and add some additional clarity.

[00:24:40] Yep.

[00:24:41] I had earlier shared that there were 45 people here.

[00:24:45] Majority of them are still here

[00:24:48] and the majority of them did stay.

[00:24:49] We did have some attrition.

[00:24:51] We did have a couple people honestly that we separated.

[00:24:54] I would argue should have been done years before I arrived

[00:24:57] but with that you had inferred and you're correct

[00:25:02] that we added another three dozen people.

[00:25:05] So now if we have a legacy culture

[00:25:07] we have new who are all coming

[00:25:09] with their own individual experiences

[00:25:13] because I have a very homogeneous pool of legacy employees.

[00:25:17] Yep.

[00:25:18] I have a diverse pool of experiences with new hires

[00:25:24] and then we also because we went 24 seven, 365

[00:25:29] for our efficiency we developed an offshore team.

[00:25:33] So if you think about it,

[00:25:35] I have we now have three cultures.

[00:25:37] Yes.

[00:25:38] Legacy unknown and offshore

[00:25:42] and it was the need in order to synthesize all of those together

[00:25:47] not synthesized but synchronize

[00:25:50] and I, because I wanted to say symphony eyes

[00:25:52] but that's not really a word.

[00:25:54] It could be.

[00:25:55] We'll make it.

[00:25:56] In order to bring them together for achieving the outcomes

[00:26:01] is one of them is the reason why I hired

[00:26:04] as I said earlier someone exogenous to lead it through.

[00:26:08] So now the teams where they would have naturally

[00:26:12] been walking down the hall and meeting each other

[00:26:15] now in our hybrid work world

[00:26:17] where folks are here 30% of the time roughen

[00:26:21] some folks are rarely here

[00:26:24] because they live in another state or another country.

[00:26:29] How do we bring them together?

[00:26:30] So that's why the in-person and virtual classroom

[00:26:35] mix of those, it required people to work together

[00:26:38] on projects related and it also opened the aperture.

[00:26:41] Right?

[00:26:42] So that way everyone's empowered

[00:26:44] to call anyone in the company

[00:26:46] and ask any questions they want, period.

[00:26:48] So by having them in those working groups

[00:26:51] folks that broke down quick barriers

[00:26:53] and it took I'll call it a year of getting to know

[00:26:58] someone but now if you're working every week

[00:27:00] and you're working on problems related to it

[00:27:04] and you're forced and it's designed that way

[00:27:07] forced meaning that because you're in a class

[00:27:09] and you have to attend.

[00:27:10] So-

[00:27:11] Highly recommended.

[00:27:12] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:14] To maintain employment, yes.

[00:27:16] That's what's evolved in the past

[00:27:19] and then that's been two years, right?

[00:27:21] Cause I'll this February cause came in with the plan

[00:27:24] the plan was made and it proved

[00:27:26] after I was here six months pulled up

[00:27:29] and we executed against the plan

[00:27:32] the majority, right?

[00:27:33] So I'll say the vast majority is done

[00:27:36] and that include everything from an infrastructure

[00:27:39] where we upgraded our all of our tech stack

[00:27:43] through the way the office looks

[00:27:44] to virtually every contract

[00:27:46] at every vendor relationship we have.

[00:27:49] Nice.

[00:27:50] So we even renamed the company, right?

[00:27:52] So the company was renamed to something

[00:27:54] that was brought together by the employees.

[00:28:00] So they had their hand in direct hand

[00:28:03] and direct in voting and selecting the name and et cetera.

[00:28:07] So that was part of that cohesion.

[00:28:10] Nice.

[00:28:11] I mean, that's a true rebrand in the

[00:28:14] in the full meaning of that word.

[00:28:16] You know oftentimes we use the word rebrand to mean

[00:28:18] name change and logo change and colors change.

[00:28:22] No, that is not what a rebrand is.

[00:28:25] You all have gone through the true evolution

[00:28:30] of thinking through what your brand is

[00:28:32] and how that plays out with all of your stakeholders,

[00:28:35] all of your stakeholders,

[00:28:36] how that plays out with all of your work

[00:28:39] and then as a repercussion, your name, your logo,

[00:28:42] your colors, your tagline needed to change.

[00:28:44] Your spot on not only did the employees participate

[00:28:47] but our customers.

[00:28:48] When we went through it,

[00:28:49] we literally invited our customers to submit names

[00:28:53] and we asked them primary market research questions

[00:28:56] of what do they think of

[00:28:58] when they think of us as not a name, but what do we do?

[00:29:02] What's our role?

[00:29:03] How do we serve them?

[00:29:05] When did they call us?

[00:29:06] What would we, and trying to put, right,

[00:29:09] personification elements around us, what they would be

[00:29:13] and that's how we evolved

[00:29:16] and that was part of the selection process

[00:29:18] of how we came up with the current name

[00:29:20] and everything from the colors to the tagline

[00:29:24] and then our aspiration, right?

[00:29:28] Our commitment and our actions.

[00:29:31] Awesome, awesome.

[00:29:33] I wanna ask you two questions.

[00:29:35] The first is what are the very practical skills

[00:29:40] that you saw your culture pick up

[00:29:42] because of these practices that you brought

[00:29:46] into the organization?

[00:29:48] The main one is communicating outward

[00:29:51] because at the end of the day,

[00:29:53] if I share we're a technology company,

[00:29:55] everyone kinda has in their minds a vision

[00:29:59] of what our employees are emotionally,

[00:30:03] intellectually, physically, whatever you have

[00:30:05] a personification that you think of.

[00:30:08] And let's say whatever that is holistically,

[00:30:11] that's all true.

[00:30:12] I don't think in those descriptions

[00:30:14] you're thinking of the technology person

[00:30:16] being able to communicate what's the problem

[00:30:20] that the customer's facing on a customer call

[00:30:24] interacting, identifying problem

[00:30:27] and then being able to solution

[00:30:29] and communicate it back clearly

[00:30:32] with impassioned customer, right?

[00:30:33] Because if you're a computer engineer,

[00:30:36] you're not used to customer service.

[00:30:40] But we are a service company.

[00:30:44] So everyone here at some point

[00:30:46] at some degree is gonna be interacting with the customer.

[00:30:49] So it enabled them and that was the real change

[00:30:52] is in thinking how do we, we're gonna do X.

[00:30:55] How do we communicate that to the customer?

[00:30:57] Something went wrong, right?

[00:30:59] How do we send them which we do, right?

[00:31:01] So how do we send them updates?

[00:31:05] How are we going to make sure that we're communicating

[00:31:08] when there's gonna be a change,

[00:31:09] when there's gonna be an outage,

[00:31:12] when something's happened?

[00:31:14] So that's really the change is that now

[00:31:16] that we're a customer centric

[00:31:18] where before we were in IT side.

[00:31:20] Okay, what other skills have come along

[00:31:23] with that in the culture?

[00:31:24] What I've been told, I can't of course verify

[00:31:28] because I haven't seen it,

[00:31:29] is that one of my directors of engineering

[00:31:32] share with me, a little bit more than a week ago,

[00:31:36] hey, that training very passionate person

[00:31:39] shares those skills on how to talk through

[00:31:42] when there's a problem, I use those now everywhere.

[00:31:46] Right, I use it at home.

[00:31:47] Yes.

[00:31:49] And he shared that,

[00:31:52] and he's gotten feedback that they've noticed it.

[00:31:55] So that was right,

[00:31:57] because we all work,

[00:32:00] we work because it's a fuel source

[00:32:02] and hopefully we also have some psychic income

[00:32:04] that we get from our roles.

[00:32:06] And for me, Stephanie hearing that,

[00:32:08] right, because I know that we're better,

[00:32:10] he's definitely just a stellar contributor,

[00:32:15] but hearing that that stellar contributor

[00:32:17] is also now better outside of the work office here,

[00:32:23] that was part of my psychic income.

[00:32:25] What do you know now?

[00:32:27] I keep saying last question,

[00:32:28] but this really gonna be the last one, Brian,

[00:32:30] I swear, what do you know now about going slow

[00:32:34] that you wish you knew 10 years ago?

[00:32:36] Oh my gosh.

[00:32:38] And really, this is a selfish question.

[00:32:41] Okay, all right, because I'll say is that

[00:32:43] I do think of myself as,

[00:32:46] and this is the internal voice, right?

[00:32:48] Is this is the 5.0 version, right?

[00:32:51] And you just asked what the 4.0 version was.

[00:32:54] Yep.

[00:32:55] So my 4.0 version,

[00:32:57] because what they say when you in your 40s,

[00:32:59] it's bringing everything together.

[00:33:04] And what I know now,

[00:33:05] it's really about the people that I can bring together.

[00:33:08] And what I truly apply, Stephanie,

[00:33:11] is that I'll share with you is I'm very aware

[00:33:14] of what my weaknesses are.

[00:33:16] And it's not hubris,

[00:33:18] but I promise you I'm not working on them.

[00:33:20] I'm very aware, and that's the biggest thing

[00:33:23] I would now say between 10 years ago and now,

[00:33:27] I do not try to change,

[00:33:30] help improve the weaknesses

[00:33:33] of those who are working with me.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] Right, I do not.

[00:33:40] They're working with me,

[00:33:41] they're hired, acceptor for their strengths,

[00:33:44] and that's what we focus on.

[00:33:46] Yep, sincerely.

[00:33:48] I love that, I love that.

[00:33:50] Yes, it's a couple of years ago,

[00:33:53] I kind of came to the acceptance of my own weaknesses

[00:33:57] and kind of a contract with myself of like,

[00:34:01] I'm done trying to pretend that I wanna make them better.

[00:34:04] Cause I don't, I want people who were my weak,

[00:34:07] I wanna bring in people who strengths are my weaknesses

[00:34:10] and plug those in together

[00:34:12] versus like making everything strong all the time

[00:34:15] because I'm just exhausted.

[00:34:17] I'm just exhausted by it, I'm done.

[00:34:19] I'd rather enjoy life a lot more.

[00:34:22] Exactly, exactly.

[00:34:24] And apply that same thing in every other facet.

[00:34:27] Yes, yes.

[00:34:28] And allow people the freedom and grace

[00:34:30] to not work on their weaknesses,

[00:34:32] but to revel in their strengths.

[00:34:35] Agreed.

[00:34:36] All right, well thank you so much

[00:34:38] for this conversation, I enjoyed it so much.

[00:34:41] Part of the reason that I love this conversation

[00:34:44] with Brian is that quite frankly,

[00:34:46] he got me re-inspired and helped me to rethink

[00:34:50] some of the ways that we can intentionally

[00:34:52] lead our people.

[00:34:53] And the number one thing that I'm taking away

[00:34:57] from our conversation is choose your heart.

[00:35:01] You know, as leaders we hear often

[00:35:04] and we hear this with our clients,

[00:35:05] oh, change is hard and nobody likes change.

[00:35:08] It's so cliche that my go-to response now

[00:35:11] is going to be choose your heart.

[00:35:13] There are things about life that are hard,

[00:35:15] choose your heart.

[00:35:16] We don't have to do all of the hard all of the time,

[00:35:19] but choose your heart.

[00:35:21] You know, see the roadblock, do the roadblock,

[00:35:23] choose to get over the roadblock.

[00:35:25] These are terrains on the way to our bigger goals

[00:35:29] and we have to be willing to accept the terrain

[00:35:31] for what it is.

[00:35:33] And then this tool that he shared with us

[00:35:35] I think is a really great framework

[00:35:37] for framing up problems to make sure that we are,

[00:35:40] one, solving the right problem

[00:35:42] and two, solving the problem.

[00:35:44] Too many meetings that I witness or coach around,

[00:35:49] the team will jump to the solution way too quickly

[00:35:52] and they don't actually understand the problem

[00:35:54] that they're solving for.

[00:35:55] And so if you'll remember the framework

[00:35:57] that Brian shared with us, Sarge,

[00:35:59] you know, frame up the situation,

[00:36:01] analyze it, make a recommendation,

[00:36:04] identify what's being gained and lost.

[00:36:07] Should we choose that recommendation?

[00:36:09] And then the extra info that you wanna throw in there,

[00:36:11] you know, the bonus points of what makes this extra awesome

[00:36:15] or what are other risks that we should be looking out for.

[00:36:18] So Sarge situation, analysis, recommendation,

[00:36:22] gain and loss and then extra info.

[00:36:25] All right my friend,

[00:36:25] so if you got value from Brian and I's conversation,

[00:36:28] would you please share it with another change maker

[00:36:31] in your circle who would also get value?

[00:36:33] I would be unbelievably honored

[00:36:35] if you would share this with somebody else.

[00:36:37] And now let's get back to the impactful,

[00:36:40] transformative, efficacious work

[00:36:43] that we are being asked to do now and into the future

[00:36:47] and I'll see you soon my friend.