Insider Threat Detection Comes From Strong Outside Relationships with Robert Field

[00:00:11] I get a call from a friend one day and he says, Rob, I tell you that there's someone inside your organization

[00:00:18] that's doing something that they shouldn't be doing and trying to move business away from your company.

[00:00:24] Hey, there friend, you're listening to the Hot Mess Hotline and this is Stefanie Krevins.

[00:00:28] You are totally in the right place if you are an ambitious leader who is charged with delivering on the tech of the future right now.

[00:00:38] In order to do that, you and your team need to upskill in the process and tackle old problems with new ways of thinking.

[00:00:45] In the past we would have called this change management and leadership development, but changes now the air we breathe

[00:00:51] and your team needs a unified strategy for the 21st century. That's what we got for you here.

[00:00:57] These executive level conversations are nuanced, insightful, and hard-earned lessons that you can put into practice as soon as this episode is over.

[00:01:07] Remember, small tweaks have huge impacts so take what's new and useful to you.

[00:01:13] Leave the rest, share the podcast so other folks can listen.

[00:01:17] Today's episode is my dear dear friend Rob Field.

[00:01:21] He is a senior technical leader with more than 20 years of experience leading client engagements.

[00:01:27] He's highly accomplished, he's versatile, he's worked in global and national and local organizations running their IT.

[00:01:34] Today's story is the kind of IT nightmare that none of us want to face, but Rob had to face it.

[00:01:41] So with that let's dig into this conversation.

[00:01:45] Alright Rob tell us about your hotness please.

[00:01:48] This happened a couple years ago and we'll change the names for the protective because this happened to be a IT leadership and security hotness.

[00:01:57] So working in IT, especially for global organizations, you have the depending on the side of the edition, sometimes you have responsibility to start

[00:02:04] techno, we have cyber and I have both.

[00:02:07] And due to the nature of business we had multiple compliance requirements and a cyber footprint was really important especially for the continuing our business.

[00:02:15] So as a leader you also have to remember you can't do it all.

[00:02:19] You're network extends to way further than just what's within the full walls of your organization.

[00:02:25] Continuing to build those relationships helps everything you do and the rate of growth and technology expands so fast.

[00:02:32] If you think that you can learn at all it's impossible.

[00:02:34] So with that I have a propensity to want to build relationships into that organization.

[00:02:39] It helps you into your organization to get things done there and outside this is a perfect example.

[00:02:44] I get a call from a friend one day and he says, Rob, I have to tell you that there's someone inside your organization that's doing something that they shouldn't be doing and trying to move business away from your company.

[00:02:57] So that's an inside of threat and we spend a lot of money on cybersecurity to not have threats coming at the tackle organization but when there's an inside of threat it's the harder of the two to deal with.

[00:03:10] Yeah, and I had a very young organization and as an IT leader sometimes people say things that they don't mean just at a frustration and usually when they do it it's at.

[00:03:20] Directed IT and IT did this I T the bad I'm not going to use those exploratives we might read it on and you know when we do in these types of forensics.

[00:03:29] But as a result with a young organization as a mentor sometimes you can't unsee things.

[00:03:35] So this hot mess was we had to figure out because of an external relationship who was trying to take this business from organization and move it elsewhere.

[00:03:47] And make sure that I protected my organization and my people in the process.

[00:03:52] I got so I mean first and foremost when we think about threats to our business we all I mean I don't know about you probably now after this event you don't but like we think about external threats we think about folks from the outside coming in to our digital for walls.

[00:04:10] To steal IP to steal our trade secrets to hire our people away and then you've got somebody on the inside who's trying to take business away from the existing business and I'm sure benefit from it personally no doubt.

[00:04:26] And the nature of all of this you know you don't find this out through forensics you find it out because of your relationships and now you know.

[00:04:34] And I got to go on the hunt and I got to find it and I got to see things I don't want to see.

[00:04:41] And I can't unsee.

[00:04:44] And I still haven't unseen some of that to this day.

[00:04:49] Yeah, you have to learn that practice empathy and forgiveness and understanding because people say things they don't mean at a frustration and it's only moment of time it's not a lifetime.

[00:05:00] I always say my superpower is building profound and meaningful relationships both within our organization and beyond our full walls so not every relationship is rosy every time so we do have speed bumps but there are good things as well.

[00:05:14] So if something bad happens you get past that and you try to think about others in that situation empathy is really important especially in situations like this but trust and verify and.

[00:05:26] Well, we want to be part of with the business we are there to protect the business with stewards of data.

[00:05:31] We're securing the platforms and you have to go on the hunt and while there are some tools.

[00:05:36] There are also not tools and you have to do things that others cannot and that's why you're trusted to do these things.

[00:05:43] Yeah, and in your role at that time as the senior most IT person only you could do it only you could dig in to see what needed to be seen.

[00:05:53] I mean, this type of situation it's it's me it's the head of HR it's the CEO and the head of finance with the only people at the time.

[00:06:02] I don't think we could even know what's going on because we didn't know who was.

[00:06:05] Yes, they won't share who was happening with me it was information came from outside of your organization and everybody is suspect at that time.

[00:06:13] Yes, yes, oh my gosh.

[00:06:16] What this reminds me of two and I have an organization I'm working with just to go back to like when you dig into forensics you're going to have to see those emails where people are cussing out IT right.

[00:06:26] I'm going to go down this one very serious situation. I have an organization I work with and we enrolled a project and folks forgot that teams or slack or whatever chat tool they use is company material for y'all to do your job it's not social media it's not read it.

[00:06:47] I'm a solid gen Xer that always believe like any email you write you should be ready to have that deposed and court like it's just it's my own philosophy and even in this work I don't put anything disparaging of people in email.

[00:07:03] That's just cruel like that's just cruel to do to people and you're always going to be held accountable to what you put in writing it just.

[00:07:12] Yeah, the whole gen X thing of like whatever you write on company property is company property.

[00:07:18] You best be prepared for that to be read and court. I don't care what it is.

[00:07:22] That's my own that's my own side side comment there but so take us back so you're doing the forensics.

[00:07:29] Well, see that's very good it is company policy and and that helped us because this yes people used company.

[00:07:37] So yeah like hashtag how dumb man I'm sorry but hashtag how dumb.

[00:07:43] So you're digging through all of this you're digging through your own companies property to find the enemy within the walls walk us through you know what are you just.

[00:07:59] Obviously we have to keep this information this situation confidential but walk us through what you're experiencing as you're trying to sort this out.

[00:08:08] You know it's it's unsettle people are in your back yard trying to pick something away from your house and just spend a lot of time a lot of time as an IT leader building campaigns for to the board hey I want to spend as much money to protect on.

[00:08:25] I want to do this to make sure we run campaigns to fishing campaigns and we talk about the importance of the support of communication but something like this is.

[00:08:34] Is they're taking something you feel like from you and become very personal even more personal because I have a full time job.

[00:08:42] I have other things I have to do comes to responsibility and this becomes more more than a technology solution.

[00:08:50] The friend we have to do sometimes is very specific and reading through stuff and trying to find patterns and there was a lot of manual stuff I had to do.

[00:08:58] And we have technologies like NDR and XDR that help us manage things but this required a lot of manual stuff that took away from everything else I had to do.

[00:09:09] And the honest falls upon a very small subset of people.

[00:09:17] And as you realize it's not of you can bring others in the loop but it's still a very humbling experience that you think that you have a full view of everything you control but you don't.

[00:09:31] So this brings up a good question because we talk a lot about here at the change architects controlling the controlables what did you learn was out of your control during this situation.

[00:09:40] Well, when I learned and what I felt a two different things that's so and I'd like to hit on that so I felt was everything's out of my control but we've learned that a couple times and you know we're also doing my career as a kid extra as well we've seen a lot of transformations throughout.

[00:09:54] career as I you know while I defined digital transformation as business transformation using technology as a disruptor every time the transformation things seem to move in a direction that wasn't controlled before.

[00:10:06] When we had a big plan prior to COVID COVID changed our plan.

[00:10:10] Yes, so I couldn't control anything I had it just redo and we planned for things and we you have a business continuity disaster cover plan plan for the worst hope for the best but I felt nothing was in my control.

[00:10:23] Now what I could control and what I couldn't control is I could control the systems we have.

[00:10:27] I could control the things that technology allows us to do I could control how I react to that and how I let people see.

[00:10:33] Yes, there's a phrase they used I was a duck on the water people thought I was very calm but under water might people moving a mile a minute.

[00:10:41] Yep, I put four in the morning to midnight every day seven days a week from months trying to figure this out until we finally did but.

[00:10:48] The only thing I control was how I reacted to this and how we solved the problem.

[00:10:53] Oh yes, oh my gosh well and and so for listeners coming into this to this episode rob and I met during this time and we are close where thickest thieves I had no idea.

[00:11:06] And I know why I had no idea but I had no idea that you were going through this at the time that we that we met and that's that's heartbreaking for me personally think about what you had to shoulder because of because of that situation.

[00:11:19] And we could probably go whole throw in that few days in New York City because that was my only outlet during that time and you know I won't share those specifics here it was a fun weekend thank you but it took me away from what we're going through.

[00:11:31] But it was it was a lot during that time and that's what we do when we take this go on IT is not a nine to five job.

[00:11:38] And we hope to do things that are not technology want to do things that help the business grow and help the business transform and and if possible become a.

[00:11:48] A profit center for the business by building things for them that drive revenue but we really they're too operation makes you the business is running they could do what they need to do and protect them.

[00:11:59] My gosh what's next like what what happened you know you're walking through this you're doing the forensics walk us through you know these other implications as they unfold.

[00:12:09] I mean to to save people a lot of.

[00:12:12] I did a through this thing we ultimately found out who was and and we took care of that but there was an impact from that right and.

[00:12:19] You know first we had to let people know what happened and as as we.

[00:12:22] I'm figuring out who was we brought more people into the process and it got easier and easier didn't take away the stress but it did get easier and when we find them find that who was we had to take a real hard look at what are policies or what are proceeding.

[00:12:35] And we've just made a sense of how to do that.

[00:12:37] I mean we did what we have that's the fact that there's a lot of things that came out really really important part we preach get often but sometimes people don't really take change map and seriously and it didn't give us a strong reverse in the organization.

[00:12:48] You know sometimes a failure does help move you forward.

[00:12:51] Yes, but in this situation it wasn't important so how we handle with our Eddie devices and.

[00:12:58] And where people love having access to and.

[00:13:02] watch, right? You know that if there's large amount of data moving around something is going on

[00:13:07] then we watch things a little bit closer for a while. So it's you know human behavior

[00:13:13] becomes a big component of how IT managing their day. Ah yes, okay.

[00:13:19] So those changes were really integral in what we build in our day forward and it becomes

[00:13:24] important part in how you look at the human element and how they interact with technology

[00:13:30] with technology. Right? It does to drive the way operations run going forward and again

[00:13:36] COVID situation like this just proved that the impact technology has on a day-to-day

[00:13:42] can either cripple or grow goodness depending on one little tiny of that.

[00:13:46] Oh yes, and one person, one bad actor. I mean, one bad actor. Yeah, and in 10 years the lesson's

[00:13:52] going to be like thank you to that bad actor for for this company for strengthening the company

[00:13:58] that is not at all what it feels like in the moment. In the moment again, you're just,

[00:14:03] yes, you feel very, very low and in there, you know, I'm my father company now that are helping

[00:14:07] this type of stop then and I see more and more things that are helping inside and outside of

[00:14:12] of organizations. Unfortunately cyber insurance is going up more and I just dated this so

[00:14:16] hopefully goes down, never, never, never, never. And they're a thing that we work every day to do

[00:14:23] and hopefully AI will play a bigger part in this and especially looking at patterns and behaviors

[00:14:27] and technology like with the entire, with a, you know, made a set lot harder because they

[00:14:32] encrypt things in use to the location. You know, it's a new deal P that doesn't allow people

[00:14:38] to steal data, right? There are things like that that help us make sure we hand protect our data.

[00:14:43] But, you know, right now I believe on a non-o-digit number but in every boardroom,

[00:14:49] if cyber security isn't in your top three priorities then do you do something wrong?

[00:14:54] Profit have to be one, yes I am the 10 revenues right up there but two or three cyber security

[00:14:58] has to be there. Yes, yes. Well let's take a quick break and we're going to come back and let's

[00:15:03] talk about the ways in which Rob is a leader up skilled what he learned how his relationships

[00:15:10] were strengthened. I don't know why I'm talking about you in the third person but your relationship

[00:15:14] was strengthened and what in part I think is fascinating too is there is now technological solutions

[00:15:21] that can now do this kind of forensics because of AI that you know just you just didn't have

[00:15:26] access to even a couple of years ago and what that can mean for our businesses and our leaders

[00:15:31] moving forward. So I'm good. I'm great. All right well we take a quick break from this amazing

[00:15:35] conversation today. I want to share with you a new tool that I have for you. I think that there's

[00:15:41] a myth in our workplaces. Well let me say is I know there's a myth in our workplaces that meetings

[00:15:47] have this suck and I don't believe that whatsoever. By all accounts our time and meetings have

[00:15:52] doubled if not more since the start of the pandemic and this time with your colleagues should

[00:15:59] not be a waste of time. It should be the most valuable. So if you're looking for more resources

[00:16:03] to leave meetings that are productive, powerful and impactful and have everyone participating get

[00:16:09] over to my website at StephanieCrevins.com forward slash lead kick ass meetings and get some new

[00:16:16] tools so that when you leave a meeting with your colleagues you're not left going what the actual

[00:16:22] F was that you're going yes we're gonna take on the world together let's get this done because

[00:16:28] it was an unbelievably powerful meeting those tools are out there for you my friends and they're

[00:16:32] on my website today. StephanieCrevins.com forward slash lead kick ass meetings now let's get back

[00:16:39] into that conversation. So Rob let's dig back in and I want to start first with

[00:16:46] what were the critical skills that you learned as a leader that you now have the opportunity

[00:16:51] to use moving forward. So that I mean there's so many hits that may be because there's just

[00:16:57] it hit every area of what we do and I'll be remiss if I didn't lead with the most important

[00:17:02] thing I took away with that double down on is building relationships. Yes, it and starting in the

[00:17:08] organization at every level you have to build a relationship. Know who everyone is, know what makes

[00:17:13] them tick, know what's important to them making sure that every voice is heard, have them

[00:17:18] the thing without building those relationships then you can't do what you don't you can't we

[00:17:23] can't do what we do I had a friend a long time ago it told me you can be the best

[00:17:27] developer in the world without a great salesperson you'll never work at their lives and

[00:17:30] having empathy and understanding people with what they bring to your organization is important.

[00:17:35] So pick yourself out of the equation understand what's happening build those relationships

[00:17:39] and have a fixed gain or a tough one just make sure that you don't take it personally you

[00:17:44] have to go out there they have to go out to do gen X as we go out and have to be our idea

[00:17:48] to die in the law. That's right that's right yeah. I think building relations is absolutely

[00:17:53] number one number two it has to be managing that change and then know with your organization

[00:17:58] what you do but change management is critical it's managing the homeostasis it

[00:18:03] think of up things go down seeing little patterns change organization if you're not

[00:18:07] managing documenting those communicating those changes then the you're not managing with

[00:18:13] transparency you're not really a non-bored of what you're building and it's you're just

[00:18:19] trying for carnage and I think we took a much more proactive approach at cybersecurity

[00:18:26] and change management at that point and it really locked everything down where we were

[00:18:30] more confident everything we're doing. Oh you bring up such an important point and

[00:18:35] here's some a dot that I want to connect in a new way that I had and when you have an

[00:18:39] intentional change management strategy it allows you to be transparent with your people

[00:18:45] in a way that you can't without it and employees today now more than ever are demanding transparency

[00:18:52] from their employers and that doesn't mean open all the books and let people see everything that's

[00:18:57] what my older gen Xers and my baby boomers here that's not what transparency has to mean but

[00:19:03] when you have a solid change management program you can articulate how things are done how

[00:19:08] technology is adopted why something was clamped down over here but opened up over here

[00:19:14] it allows you to be transparent with your people I gotta use that I gotta use that move for thanks

[00:19:19] for having. Well it's so they saw the change in me during that time period and I had to make

[00:19:24] sure that after I sat them all down I explained to them what I did and why I did and there are

[00:19:29] the future leaders of tomorrow anyway and get them the respect be transparent with them as much

[00:19:33] you can situation like this you really can't while it's happening but I believe that a key

[00:19:39] component of our regulators for transparency Joe and so please everyone should always be transparent

[00:19:44] with you team and I say to all people I can't tell you that there are too many leaders that

[00:19:48] that are not transparent and people don't leave companies they leave bad managers. Yes always always

[00:19:54] I'm reminded of another podcast guest that we had and he's a CRO and he is he's probably one

[00:20:01] of the best negotiators I've ever interacted with I mean he's just impressive but he believes

[00:20:06] in full transparency and what he says is you have every right to ask me any question that you want

[00:20:14] and sometimes I'm going to have to say I can't answer that. Yes and this was a situation where

[00:20:20] I couldn't tell them what I was doing but the only other thing I traditionally take off the table

[00:20:24] are personal issues. I've got it at what can I talk about that I don't need help because again

[00:20:30] it takes the village and that might be someone who is new has an inexperienced approach

[00:20:36] or something and they might ask the best question that brings us to the next level that I can't say.

[00:20:41] No for sure for sure the dummy curve is real and it is helpful.

[00:20:48] Permanently. Yeah all right any other skills that you feel like you walked away from this

[00:20:54] like what made you how were you stronger because you unfortunately had to go through this?

[00:20:59] The process of having to sell your budget is really, really important and I talked to friends

[00:21:06] often and I don't influence I don't sell I influence but the power that you have to build to be

[00:21:11] able to communicate what you need while you need it be prepared take the time out to be thoughtful

[00:21:16] being in technology there's always a conversation around how much you want to spend or how much

[00:21:21] you need but the focalness and the time you take to put that budget together because

[00:21:25] you need stuff that you can't give and sometimes people don't understand. They don't stand

[00:21:29] the value of why do you need this platform with this technology to protect our organization?

[00:21:34] We don't have those problems you know and you do and there is a lot that goes into running

[00:21:38] an organization people usually log as budget for right after the technology and it's serious so

[00:21:43] so stay up on it use your team do as much research as you can but really take the time and

[00:21:48] the detail of putting your budget together well and learn how to influence your board

[00:21:52] how to influence your executive teams so that way you can get those things you need to protect

[00:21:57] your organization. Yes yes and if you let's say this unfortunately happens again in the future

[00:22:04] what would you do differently? It's hard but there are tools and I did mention just really before

[00:22:08] if I didn't find that new company Phoenix Fire I think they're fantastic. They're phrases

[00:22:14] they make data theft irrelevant you know so no more ransomware from a data stealing perspective

[00:22:19] there's new XDRs out there and NDRs that help you manage that data that's security process around

[00:22:24] there but ultimately managing and watching your data in your organization knowing where it is at all

[00:22:29] times really helps you understand that and with these new AI tools that can show your patterns

[00:22:34] and what happens with people in data because everything in organizations people process technology

[00:22:38] and data and when you're very happy it's the what the people process technology part.

[00:22:44] But it is all about people process technology and data and if you have enough of that

[00:22:48] information and you're starting to get into this concept of you can't do it on your own and

[00:22:52] realize it you grab an AI you look at these patterns you can read the patterns and that can

[00:22:56] really help to be more agile to react in its things quicker. Yes. If you react to this

[00:23:00] the quick you'd stay at that time and hopefully have less of an opportunity to be exposed.

[00:23:04] You want to be as limited as close you can, please type of threats otherwise you know

[00:23:09] there are many many many CRC episodes you know cheap if you make no efficiency

[00:23:15] people basically optes that lose their roles because they were not a head but were not being

[00:23:20] protective of the organization. Yes and when I think about basically I mean the American

[00:23:27] workforce economy is all about data IP knowledge services you know it's what our people create

[00:23:34] inside of our organizations what else is there to protect you know like this this seems

[00:23:39] mission critical to me and if now we have technology that that can help us identify that more

[00:23:45] quickly man we've got to get on it. Yeah you want to be able to identify you want to be able

[00:23:49] to protect it but we've been talking about yes I'm getting it back for a long long time right

[00:23:53] yeah it's taken as a long time to get here but take advantage of the things that can help you

[00:23:59] do it because your personal identity of information is important your company data information

[00:24:03] is important there are bad actors out there that try and very hard to do this and just

[00:24:07] the only other thing I would have told those who are not an IT please have empathy on all your IT

[00:24:12] workers because they're trying to impact your data. That's right that's right I mean gosh as we're

[00:24:17] recording this and we have a this will be released publicly very soon but there's a major

[00:24:22] pharmaceutical company that's been down because of a cyber attack for at least seven days now like

[00:24:27] this is big this is real though it's it's heartbreaking and when you think about the impact to

[00:24:32] the medical community and people needing medicine like the impact is it's just it makes me it makes

[00:24:40] me nauseous to talk about it just makes me nauseous what what's happening and what our poor

[00:24:44] IT friends are going through at this company right now and so I heard about that as it was

[00:24:51] happening because the network I'm in we have a what's that group in a chat group and there are

[00:24:55] much multiple networks through a few of my professional networking groups and everyone comes to

[00:25:01] together and says hey this is happening please get in and protect your own organizations so

[00:25:06] that is going on right now we've known since it started and the nice thing about it even though

[00:25:10] it's a bad situation for that organization everyone else is rallying around each other and trying to

[00:25:15] help them it's less about me competing against your business but these groups that we're now

[00:25:20] part of and all these CIOs the coming in secret based over the team if they actually open to

[00:25:24] trying to do is help each other with awareness and again if you can get out there and join a network

[00:25:30] going to be connected others because they will help make you more aware of what's going on

[00:25:36] then you can on your own yes absolutely so Rob one last question I'll let you get back to

[00:25:43] protecting your part of the world how did your sense of integrity serve you through this situation

[00:25:53] and how does it continue to serve you today? Yeah that's a really great question and hit

[00:25:57] really really hard home right now Stephanie but as you know since that's situation it my

[00:26:05] I've taken on a much higher moral high ground and a lot I take a lot higher I take much

[00:26:11] more stake in my integrity not the never before when I saw this and I sort of things are happening

[00:26:16] and the cascading effect when we found that who was doing things here and what was going on

[00:26:22] I realized that the bad things that happened that don't need to be happening

[00:26:27] are not going to be things that I'm never going to call us and I'm going to do whatever I can

[00:26:30] to make sure that that stays as far away from these possible so I'm not going to contribute that

[00:26:35] I don't want to ever be on the receiving end of what's going on there yeah so I hope protect those

[00:26:39] that are in as well from those of you. Yes yes I love that yeah when we were um my husband and

[00:26:46] I were going through our foster care journey and it was I've brought it up many times and it was just

[00:26:52] truly one of those most gut-wrenching transformative events of our life I had to start asking myself

[00:26:58] every day what's the story that I want to tell about this situation when it's over and I

[00:27:03] borrowed that from another leader but it's basically like how can I you know when if I get called into

[00:27:09] accountability this situation comes up and I use it at work every day too it's how do I

[00:27:15] want to tell the story of how I showed up with integrity how I made the best decision in the moment

[00:27:19] that I could with the information that I had and kind of reversed engineered that and allowed me

[00:27:25] to work through that with integrity so that you know because that's all we have is the information

[00:27:31] in front of us at the moment and if we can show up feeling confident that we did all that we could

[00:27:37] with what we had that's enough like that is enough to be an integrity. It's my motto always do the

[00:27:44] right thing. Always all right thank you Rob I'll see you very soon. He's in. My friend

[00:27:52] I cannot impress enough upon you how deeply and how seriously Rob takes his relationships. I hope

[00:28:01] this story drove the point home for you why you need those types of relationships inside and

[00:28:08] outside of your organization what strikes me about this scenario is that Rob's integrity

[00:28:16] truly solved a technological challenge, a business challenge right? He yes he used technology to

[00:28:23] discover what and the hell was going on with this this insider threat but his relationships

[00:28:30] and the integrity that he holds in his relationships is what discovered this problem. I want you

[00:28:36] to be able to say that your relationships are that strong too that they are what help you truly solve

[00:28:44] business challenges. Couple my high level takeaways and then I would love to hear yours wherever

[00:28:50] you're listening or watching in right this this focus on empathy and understanding.

[00:28:56] Ray folks are going to pop off at where folks are going to put things in writing that they

[00:29:00] regregret we've all had bad days how can we give each other grace understanding and empathy and

[00:29:08] then this notion that a proper change management strategy and program truly allows our leaders

[00:29:16] to be transparent with their people in the right ways at the right time. And if you need help

[00:29:22] diggin into that I'd love to chat there's so many processes and strategies and ways of thinking

[00:29:29] that can bring transparency while also driving change. And so again let's just give a plug the

[00:29:36] Phoenix Pire here. They're not asking us too but this is some latest tech that can help you all

[00:29:42] uncover data breaches possible data stealing data theft if you will inside of your organization before

[00:29:50] it happens two years ago it wasn't an option Phoenix Pire is now an option rub full disclosure

[00:29:57] rub sits on the advisory board of that organization but I think it's really important to highlight

[00:30:01] that we now have multiple tools at our disposal for this kind of forensics unfortunately.

[00:30:07] The last thing I'm going to leave with you before you get back to changing your part of the world is

[00:30:12] went and doubt always do the right thing and I know that can feel hard in the moment so when

[00:30:17] you're like Stephanie sometimes I don't know what the right thing is to do here just do the next

[00:30:23] right thing just take the next baby step that you feel is right in your gut is an integrity

[00:30:30] and feels authentic to you that is always the right answer. All right my friend now if you

[00:30:36] got value from this which you please share it with another protrable maker that is ambitious trying to

[00:30:41] pull off something big you hope that they would gain insights too because if you learn something

[00:30:46] my hope is that your friends will learn something too and now let's get back to the big

[00:30:50] transformational work that is driving change and I'll see you soon.