[00:00:00] Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.
[00:00:16] Hey everyone, Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Every quarter the e-commerce education consultancy Allume Group consolidates the output of expert conversations, annual reports and the latest data to create their Allume Insider Report, or AIR.
[00:00:31] It's chock-a-block full of the most current insights into the present and future of e-commerce. Andrea Leigh, Founder and CEO of Allume Group, rejoins the podcast with the takeaways from Q3 based on their research.
[00:00:44] Welcome back to the podcast, Andrea, for this quarter's Allume Insider Report.
[00:00:52] Thanks for having me.
[00:00:53] Oh my gosh.
[00:00:55] You know, you have had such a run of reports this year.
[00:00:58] The first quarter was based on authenticity, trust, and then trust and loyalty.
[00:01:05] And now the final report of the year is focused on advocacy.
[00:01:09] Yes.
[00:01:10] Tell us why you landed on that as an area of focus, how it fits into what you are seeing going on in the industry.
[00:01:16] Yeah.
[00:01:18] So like you said, Peter, last three quarters, we talked about authenticity, trust and loyalty, and how building those components as a brand or as a retailer are really relevant and important for winning today's shopper.
[00:01:34] But then we thought, we still have one more quarter left in the year.
[00:01:37] So like what comes next, right?
[00:01:38] Like what's even better than a really loyal shopper?
[00:01:41] And what we decided, we posed this question to a group of senior e-commerce executives at a speaking session.
[00:01:51] And what they said was, what comes next, what's even better than having a loyal shopper is being a beloved brand.
[00:02:00] And thinking about, you know, how do you turn consumers into advocates?
[00:02:05] How do you get them to evangelize for your product and become sort of a part of the routine?
[00:02:11] And someone said, and I loved this term, brand insistence.
[00:02:14] So for example, if your product is not in stock at the store, you know, let's say it's like a grocery product like Cheerios or something, you know, the customer like just walks away.
[00:02:27] Like they don't buy something else, right?
[00:02:29] That's being a beloved brand.
[00:02:32] So we got this last concept from this group of senior executives.
[00:02:37] And this idea of having shoppers be advocates on our behalf, I think is really critical for the purchase path.
[00:02:46] 37% of shoppers say they discover items they bought the first time through friends and family.
[00:02:51] So this kind of like word of mouth promotion is super invaluable for shoppers.
[00:02:57] And on the flip side, the average diss diss dissed-side customer tells like nine to 15 people about a bad experience.
[00:03:05] And so, you know, we really want to make sure that we're like, we're, if we're getting people to shoppers to talk about our products, that they're advocating for them in a really positive way.
[00:03:15] And there are, we kind of like all of our reports, we broke it down into sort of three areas that brands can focus on to become a beloved brand.
[00:03:25] And Andrea, I have to say, I feel like so much at a deep personal level, that nine to 10 people thing.
[00:03:31] Like if something bad happens with a brand or something, I will just be like, don't use it.
[00:03:36] It was a terrible experience.
[00:03:37] But at the same time, if it was amazing, I tell like everyone and their mother, right?
[00:03:41] Because it's just such an amazing brand and I want to kind of preach it from the rooftop.
[00:03:45] So it is kind of a double-edged sword there where you have to be careful how you're using the advocacy to your advantage or disadvantage.
[00:03:53] So.
[00:03:54] Yes, absolutely.
[00:03:55] I love that example.
[00:03:57] So first component of advocacy that you identified is delight me.
[00:04:01] Tell us what that is.
[00:04:02] So, okay.
[00:04:03] So first, what is advocacy?
[00:04:05] You know, Google defines it as to publicly recommend or support.
[00:04:08] And so if you want to think about how you turn shoppers into advocates, kind of breaks down to these three things.
[00:04:13] So the first one's delight me.
[00:04:15] So this is really about, I mean, I feel like in every one of our reports, we kind of beat the drum of brilliant basics.
[00:04:21] Like you have to get the brilliant basics right.
[00:04:23] So this is about having an exceptional customer experience, having exceptional product quality, having exceptional other types of experiences.
[00:04:31] So this idea of brilliant basics plus maybe innovative or novel products.
[00:04:36] You have to be standout in either design or performance or have really tailored recommendations for shoppers.
[00:04:44] Not necessarily personalized.
[00:04:46] I think we have been, I mean, coming out of grocery shop this last couple weeks ago, I think we heard a lot about personalization.
[00:04:54] We're actually going to spend, I think next year we're going to spend the whole year in each of the quarters on kind of different aspects of personalization.
[00:05:01] Oh my gosh, that's great.
[00:05:02] Yeah, because it's such a hot topic right now, but I think it's really misunderstood.
[00:05:07] Shoppers want relevant offers and merchandising.
[00:05:11] They don't necessarily need personalized offers and merchandising.
[00:05:15] And so this idea of tailored recommendations for the shopper.
[00:05:17] So like that example you gave last quarter, Lauren, about the, what is it, natively?
[00:05:23] The skincare pros that had the shampoo and then I use their skincare and I've continued to use it.
[00:05:30] So yeah, they offer it for free.
[00:05:32] Exactly.
[00:05:33] So they sent you like a sample of a new product launch, which was such a great example of a tailored recommendation, but not necessarily personalized.
[00:05:41] You know, they sent that offer to everyone.
[00:05:43] And so, or maybe providing unexpected rewards like that or exclusive offers.
[00:05:48] But kind of going back to the 9 to 15 shoppers that tell people about a bad experience, the idea of focusing on delighting the shopper doesn't mean you have to be perfect as a brand or a retailer.
[00:05:59] So it's not about being perfect.
[00:06:01] And I love this quote from a Qualtrics report that we used in our research.
[00:06:08] Leonie Brown says, people who had a bad experience with a brand, but the brand fixed it, are more loyal customers than people who never had a problem in the first place.
[00:06:16] And that's really because it involves trust and solving something for a shopper is a great way to build trust.
[00:06:24] So isn't that interesting?
[00:06:25] Like shoppers are more loyal to brands who've had a, they've had a problem with them that have fixed it than brands they never had a problem with at all.
[00:06:33] So you're telling that our listeners should plan for something to break so that they can apologize and get better advocacy.
[00:06:41] Am I reading that correctly?
[00:06:44] It's definitely a strategy, Peter.
[00:06:46] I don't know that it's the one I would employ, but it's a way to go about this.
[00:06:49] I am not ahead of digital commerce.
[00:06:52] Wait, Andrew, I feel like whenever we have these podcasts, I always have these like amazing examples that just something just happened to me around this.
[00:06:59] So I was traveling for work and I have this travel backpack that I love.
[00:07:03] I've had it for like four years.
[00:07:04] I don't even know if I'm pronouncing this correctly.
[00:07:06] Monos, Manos, it's a brand.
[00:07:08] And I was leaving for the airport and the zipper broke.
[00:07:12] So that was a whole nother story.
[00:07:14] I had to switch bags.
[00:07:15] But I emailed them and I was like, listen, like my zipper broke.
[00:07:18] I love this bag.
[00:07:19] And they're like, it's not under warranty, but we're going to send you a new one because like you're a loyal customer and you've purchased several times.
[00:07:26] And so here's a new bag.
[00:07:27] And so I would have been like initially I was really upset, right, because the zipper broke on a really expensive bag.
[00:07:33] But they made it right.
[00:07:35] And now to me, that experience is so much stronger because they made it right.
[00:07:39] They sent me a new product and I'm going to buy a suitcase from them because I know that they'll back their product.
[00:07:45] So I think that resonates really well with probably a lot of people that are listening.
[00:07:49] I couldn't agree more, Lauren.
[00:07:51] And I think it even touches on another trend around, you know, this idea of slow consumption where shoppers are kind of now that, you know, products cost more than they used to and paychecks aren't going as far as they used to because of housing and grocery costs.
[00:08:08] Shoppers are being more cautious about what they bring into their homes.
[00:08:12] And, you know, this idea of slowing your consumption and focusing on quality goods and services, you know, is a way to do that.
[00:08:20] Like if it's more sustainable.
[00:08:22] So I think there's also this movement of like shoppers saying, you know, we don't know how to we don't know how to choose products that are more sustainable than others anymore because it's really difficult to see through, you know, all of the claims and where things are sourced.
[00:08:35] But the thing we can do is just buy fewer of them.
[00:08:38] Right.
[00:08:39] And so knowing that someone stands behind the product, I think, is really critical.
[00:08:44] Going back to that idea of quality, 53 percent of shoppers prioritize quality of a product first when making a purchase over price or anything else.
[00:08:53] And it's a challenge online because that's one of the top concerns for consumers.
[00:08:59] 44 percent have concerns with buying things online because of the quality and, you know, figuring out ways to to to back that up.
[00:09:08] Like your experience, you know, don't worry if, you know, there's a fail safe in place.
[00:09:12] If this ends up being something that doesn't meet your expectations, you can send it back.
[00:09:16] So where do you put like Timu and an Amazon's new sort of Timu competitor?
[00:09:28] They're not going for advocacy or loyalty.
[00:09:31] Like it's a whole different game, right?
[00:09:33] Like that's not they're not building brand.
[00:09:37] They're just trying to sell some stuff and ship it.
[00:09:40] Is that is that where you sort of put that category of stuff?
[00:09:43] Yeah, I and it's not to be dismissed.
[00:09:46] I mean, that's those are really fast growing sort of pockets of growth on on the Internet.
[00:09:53] And I think there's I saw something recently that said something about how third party is and marketplaces are growing a lot faster than, you know, than first party kind of wholesale retail.
[00:10:06] And it's it's certainly coming from a lot of places.
[00:10:10] But I think, you know, if you look at what Timu and Sheehan are doing, they're really trying to commoditize product categories that in the past were not commodities.
[00:10:20] Right. Like they're turning fashion into a commodity.
[00:10:22] They're turning household goods into commodities.
[00:10:24] Whereas, you know, you used to maybe only buy like a, you know, a Honeywell fan or air conditioner for your your house or your apartment because you knew that brand and you trusted it.
[00:10:38] And that was really all that was available to you were nationally distributed brands.
[00:10:43] You know, now you have all these choices of unbranded commoditized products.
[00:10:48] And I think there there are there is a I think there's a time and a place for those products.
[00:10:53] You know, we can't all afford to bring to pay for the highest quality things all the time.
[00:10:57] And so we have to make choices as consumers.
[00:11:00] But I think what what they're really focusing on is the commoditization in primarily of fashion.
[00:11:06] And I think it's coming at I mean, I think they saw a lot of growth.
[00:11:11] I think that there it's at odds with some of the consumer trends right now.
[00:11:15] So it'll be really interesting to see, at least in the US.
[00:11:18] So it'll be really interesting to see how that plays out over the next like three to five years.
[00:11:22] Yeah, fascinating.
[00:11:23] Really is.
[00:11:24] I'm wondering if it correlates at all to like income level or area in the country, too, because I think that also with the economy and where we are, people are struggling in different ways in different economic brackets.
[00:11:38] So it'd be interesting. Maybe this is a part two of when we come back and talk about this.
[00:11:42] What that is interesting.
[00:11:43] There's a really healthy or unhealthy tension there.
[00:11:47] I mean, I have three teenagers and my daughter came to me last night and she's like, I really need, you know, a couple of new clothing items for school.
[00:11:56] She's like, I don't know what to do because my friends say I shouldn't shop on Amazon and T and Timu because the clothes are fast fashion and that's bad for the environment and for humans and all these things.
[00:12:10] She's like, but I can't afford, you know, to buy the the stuff at like some of the larger retailers.
[00:12:18] And I said, well, you know, these are tough choices we have to make.
[00:12:23] You know, how much do you want that thing?
[00:12:25] And, you know, and also keeping in mind, like we can't always afford to buy the highest quality things that that we need.
[00:12:32] So, you know, you're going to have to make some tradeoffs and like and that's this is a hard this is a hard thing about being a consumer.
[00:12:38] Right. But just that that is stressing out my 14 year old.
[00:12:43] Right. You know, these are the things they're grappling with.
[00:12:46] Like, I don't remember as a kid, like we'd go to the mall and go to the gap and whatever.
[00:12:49] It was like, yeah, just bought what was what was available.
[00:12:54] And now consumers have so many choices and especially young consumers.
[00:12:58] I think it can be kind of overwhelming.
[00:13:01] But this idea of delight me, I think, can happen in a lot of different ways.
[00:13:05] And some other examples of I loved I love your story, Lauren, about Monos.
[00:13:11] Yeti is another really great example.
[00:13:13] You know, if you have shoppers that are willing to wear your branded merchandise, like hats and T-shirts that are your fans of your brand, at least in Seattle, people walk around with Yeti hats.
[00:13:24] Yeti is the high quality coolers and drinkware if you're not familiar with the brand.
[00:13:28] And they're known for having really premium materials and engineering for harsh environments.
[00:13:33] So kind of a standout product design.
[00:13:37] You know, a lot of examples here.
[00:13:40] I think Nordstrom's a retailer that stands out to me.
[00:13:43] I was telling Lauren in our prep call about an experience that we had where I went shopping with my mom and my daughter and we shopped downtown and we had gone to Old Navy and bought a bunch of clothes for the kids.
[00:13:55] And we had these huge bags.
[00:13:56] And then we went to Nordstrom and they held the bags for us from another retailer.
[00:14:00] And then my mom was tired.
[00:14:02] And so they went and, like, brought us a wheelchair for her.
[00:14:05] Oh, my gosh.
[00:14:06] Wow.
[00:14:06] Yeah.
[00:14:06] I mean, Nordstrom's amazing.
[00:14:08] They're a Seattle-based retailer and, you know, have been in our community for a long time.
[00:14:13] But their concierge will do anything.
[00:14:15] You know, they will arrange an Uber home for you or they will, you know, figure out what you should do that night if you're visiting from out of town.
[00:14:23] I mean, their concierge are known for being really amazing.
[00:14:26] And so another great example of a brand or in the form of a retailer that kind of focuses on those brilliant basics and customer service is one of their brilliant basics.
[00:14:40] I wonder what their KPI is for that.
[00:14:42] You know, if you think of how do you do that at scale?
[00:14:45] How do you justify a concierge?
[00:14:48] And can you prove that it's having that impact?
[00:14:51] I think, you know, we're so in an environment right now where resources and costs are becoming precious.
[00:15:00] And where do you spend your money and your time?
[00:15:04] It's just, you know, money no longer free, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:15:07] I just think that that investment, I mean, I know it's been a part of their brand for a very long time.
[00:15:12] But I just wonder as budgets become more tight, how they're starting to sort of hold accountability to these areas of the business.
[00:15:23] But advocacy does pay off and we see it.
[00:15:27] Absolutely.
[00:15:27] I mean, I think I do know, I'm sure that they look at repeat customers and, you know, you have the store credit card.
[00:15:34] And, you know, they're looking at their loyal shoppers and they have a loyalty program.
[00:15:39] But it's cultural, you know, it's sort of in their DNA.
[00:15:43] Like I don't think I've ever come across anyone who works there that isn't really kind of customer service focused.
[00:15:50] Because sort of like Amazon, I guess, in, you know, in the idea of that customer centricity, although it looks different for Amazon, right?
[00:15:59] Like they fix all the problems.
[00:16:00] That's why they're the most trusted brand or one of the most trusted brands.
[00:16:05] I don't know if they made that list this year.
[00:16:06] But, you know, they fix all of the problems.
[00:16:09] But that idea of customer centricity just looks different for them.
[00:16:12] It's about, you know, making sure that they've got competitive pricing and all the assortment and, you know, and can deliver with a lot of convenience.
[00:16:21] Yep.
[00:16:22] So the next area of focus is help me build my brand.
[00:16:27] How should brands be thinking about that?
[00:16:29] Yeah.
[00:16:30] Yeah.
[00:16:30] Yeah.
[00:16:31] And before we leave the delight me, I would say the takeaways for the brands on the call would be really thinking about those brilliant basics plus.
[00:16:38] So like what's your value proposition?
[00:16:40] What's your differentiator?
[00:16:41] Like every brand or retailer has something that it makes them stand out with their shoppers.
[00:16:47] And so what are you doing to prove it everywhere?
[00:16:49] And I think those are the inputs that we can focus on as brands in order to drive like really shoppers that really want to advocate for us in delighting them.
[00:17:02] So help me build my brand.
[00:17:03] Okay.
[00:17:03] This is interesting.
[00:17:05] There was a quote from grocery shop.
[00:17:07] Roquel Navarsky from General Mills said, we are not the brand.
[00:17:11] The consumer is the brand.
[00:17:13] We are no longer the brand.
[00:17:15] And she described how consumers are building these personas, right, for themselves.
[00:17:21] They're either doing it online or they're doing it in their head.
[00:17:24] I mean there's been this whole trend recently of these three words.
[00:17:27] I don't know if you guys have heard of this.
[00:17:29] But like the three words that define your personal sense of style and one's supposed to be like your everyday and the other is like aspirational.
[00:17:38] And I can't remember how it works, but it's been this trend making the waves on TikTok.
[00:17:44] But consumers are building their personal brand.
[00:17:47] And I think for the youngest generation, this is all the way down to their shoelaces.
[00:17:50] This is where they're buying all the products.
[00:17:53] This is, you know, what they're buying.
[00:17:55] And so the goal for the brand is to be something that the shopper wants to be a part of.
[00:18:00] And it isn't just about sustainability, although that could be a core value.
[00:18:03] So that's like if your shopper base is really focused on sustainability, that's, you know, that's an area where you need to align with their personal values.
[00:18:12] But it could be a number of different things.
[00:18:15] So this is interesting.
[00:18:17] Kind of goes back to something we were talking about in the beginning.
[00:18:19] One in five consumers consider themselves to be content creators or influencers.
[00:18:24] One in five.
[00:18:25] That is 20% of consumers.
[00:18:27] And it goes up to 45% for Gen Zs and millennials.
[00:18:31] And this is from a HubSpot report this year.
[00:18:33] And I didn't believe this.
[00:18:34] And so I asked my kids.
[00:18:35] They did not think that they were influencers.
[00:18:37] I asked, like, do you guys think you're influencers?
[00:18:39] They were like, no, mom, not influencers.
[00:18:42] Why are you asking me?
[00:18:44] But I guess if I'd expanded it to be content creators, I mean, yeah, they're creating content all the time and putting it online.
[00:18:50] And so it's all about, you know, how do you align with the personal values of your shoppers as opposed to you having as a brand a set of personal values and asking the shopper to align to you.
[00:19:02] I think it has flipped in more recent years.
[00:19:07] 82% of shoppers want a consumer brand's value to align with their own.
[00:19:12] They will obviously vote with their wallet if they don't feel a match.
[00:19:15] Three quarters of shoppers reported parting ways with the brand over conflict in values.
[00:19:19] This is from a Google Cloud report.
[00:19:22] 89% of shoppers stay loyal to brands that share their values.
[00:19:26] And 29% of consumers say they choose products that fit with my personality.
[00:19:30] So I think this just really showcases the importance of individuality in the decision-making process.
[00:19:37] I have another teenager story where my daughter wanted to go โ one of my daughters wants to go to Halloween as โ I think it's Alice in Wonderland.
[00:19:48] And so I went on Amazon and I found a Made in China costume for her and I sent it to her.
[00:19:53] And she's like, no, that's not how I want my costume to come together.
[00:19:57] She wanted to go thrift and source each of the pieces individually.
[00:20:01] She found a dress that was the right dress but the wrong color.
[00:20:04] She's going to dye it.
[00:20:05] And it's because her personal brand is about sort of the creation process of this, right?
[00:20:11] I mean, not necessarily, I think, always from โ not necessarily even from a sustainability standpoint.
[00:20:16] Just that, like, she wants to be the creator of the costume.
[00:20:21] And so aligning with, you know, that personal value, you know, I think is interesting.
[00:20:29] Yeah.
[00:20:30] One in five consumers consider themselves to be content creators or influencers.
[00:20:34] I feel like my dog is the content creator in our family because we have an Instagram and we get some stuff from that.
[00:20:40] But I do not consider myself an influencer.
[00:20:43] Well, you are in your professional life, just maybe not in your personal life.
[00:20:45] You absolutely are.
[00:20:47] Fair, fair.
[00:20:48] Not on social media.
[00:20:49] Well, I guess if you count like that, fair.
[00:20:52] Fair.
[00:20:55] But I think this goes a lot to relevancy too, right?
[00:20:58] Like, not personalization, relevancy, which I really like that pivot.
[00:21:02] It's like you have to understand who your consumers are and why they're shopping for your products.
[00:21:07] And if you can match those and continue to match those, you will have loyal consumers.
[00:21:13] And you can help, you can use them to create new innovation and new ideas.
[00:21:18] I think that's also kind of the flywheel in this.
[00:21:20] Would you agree?
[00:21:22] Absolutely.
[00:21:23] What do you think, Peter?
[00:21:23] Well, I was just thinking, isn't that part of the opportunity of, sorry, but it has to be used in every podcast of AI and the ability to be able to find all the niches you can be relevant to and targeting them?
[00:21:43] Because, you know, it's been a pretty broad brush what relevancy is.
[00:21:49] But I think we're entering an era where to sort of squeeze out all the, maybe all of the revenue or all of the connection or whatever it might be, you're going to need to discover those slices and then prove your relevancy there.
[00:22:07] And therein lies opportunity.
[00:22:08] That's what I'm thinking about.
[00:22:10] I wholeheartedly agree, Peter.
[00:22:12] I think that's the big takeaway for brands.
[00:22:14] And then we can come back to some examples of this.
[00:22:16] But we used to use, this is where we need AI to help us with some of the big data.
[00:22:24] And it's not enough to know the demographics of our shoppers anymore, right?
[00:22:27] We actually have to understand what their values are.
[00:22:32] And you have to ask and you have to listen and you have to align to them.
[00:22:35] You need to deeply know them.
[00:22:37] And so thinking about, like, how can you learn about your shopper's values as opposed to just knowing about, like, geographic regions and demographics and age and shopping behaviors.
[00:22:46] You know, you need to really figure out how can you socially listen?
[00:22:49] How can you learn about their values?
[00:22:51] And I think AI offers us the opportunity to do that.
[00:22:54] There have been so many tools that have come online recently to allow brands to socially listen in smarter ways.
[00:23:02] And, you know, and there's a lot of venues that we see brands doing that.
[00:23:07] You know, if you look at Reddit or Discord or even just, you know, looking, finding ways to scale social listening across social media.
[00:23:17] And then after you've done that, how do you make your values as a brand really clear and consistent in all of your messaging and your go-to-market so that, you know, you can line up with some of those shopper values?
[00:23:30] I love that.
[00:23:31] That's a future podcast episode on how to scale your social listening through AI.
[00:23:37] Because I'm not intensely familiar with any of those offerings.
[00:23:41] And that sounds super interesting.
[00:23:44] Part two and three of all the topics we need to touch on.
[00:23:47] I know.
[00:23:48] We're just making a list.
[00:23:49] So, okay.
[00:23:50] So a couple of examples of some brands that I think have done a really nice job of aligning with their shopper's personal values.
[00:23:59] Red Bull, great example.
[00:24:00] They're all about excitement, right?
[00:24:03] So they have this history of advertising that is even maybe more legendary than their actual product.
[00:24:10] But, I mean, if you look at brand awareness.
[00:24:12] Red Bull Gifty Wigs.
[00:24:14] And their social is all about, like, people performing stunts and, you know, just these big, like, exciting feats.
[00:24:21] And it works.
[00:24:22] Like, the brand awareness for Red Bull is insane.
[00:24:28] You know, almost 100% of consumers have heard of the brand across all demographic generations.
[00:24:35] You know, and then if you look at kind of from a loyalty perspective, you know, they're approaching 50% of the population that, you know, believes they are loyal in some way to Red Bull.
[00:24:49] So that doesn't necessarily mean you drink it every day.
[00:24:51] But, you know, it's a brand you keep coming back to.
[00:24:54] So I like that one.
[00:24:57] Lauren and I also talked about Liquid Death as a great example of a brand.
[00:25:01] If folks aren't familiar with them, they're sort of like designer water, I guess you can say.
[00:25:07] It's canned designer water.
[00:25:09] The cans are really cool.
[00:25:10] They kind of โ I wouldn't say they look like a beer can, but you would feel really comfortable and maybe even cool standing around drinking a can of Liquid Death if you didn't โ
[00:25:21] weren't in a place where you wanted to be drinking alcohol around people who are.
[00:25:26] So it's a super fun brand.
[00:25:29] They've done some really interesting and cool marketing and have like a pretty strong cult following.
[00:25:35] And we've had them on the podcast.
[00:25:37] So definitely listen to that one.
[00:25:39] But yeah, I love โ that's a great example.
[00:25:40] They really kind of hone in on their genre in all of their content.
[00:25:46] So key takeaways for this one then, Andrea, for brands.
[00:25:50] You have to ask and listen.
[00:25:51] You have to ask your shopper what their values are and you have to listen.
[00:25:55] And I think it's very difficult for large brands to do that in a way that isn't supported by AI or technology in some way.
[00:26:03] And I mean, but there are still ways.
[00:26:06] You can do focus groups and you can start up โ go look on social and see what's happening.
[00:26:13] But really to help you process some of that information, I think you need some support.
[00:26:20] But yeah, really finding ways to listen and then how do you make your values really clear and consistent.
[00:26:27] I love that.
[00:26:28] Then last but not least, include me.
[00:26:31] So how are we thinking about that?
[00:26:33] I was excited about this one.
[00:26:34] Yeah, so this is about making consumers feel like they're part of a larger like-minded group.
[00:26:40] So building a community, social listening.
[00:26:42] But it's not just listening.
[00:26:44] This is also about communicating back.
[00:26:45] It's sort of a two-way communication.
[00:26:48] And this is where I think brands and particularly large CPG really need to think about the post-purchase cycle.
[00:26:54] I don't think we spend a lot of time thinking about that in consumables because we're like, well, they're just going to come back and purchase again.
[00:27:02] But if you look at more durable goods, a lot of brands have really focused on this post-purchase cycle.
[00:27:08] So what happens after the shopper makes the purchase and how do we keep them a part of the family?
[00:27:13] So a few data points.
[00:27:15] 52% of consumers choose brands they feel value them as a consumer.
[00:27:19] So they're listened to.
[00:27:21] There's some form of a two-way communication.
[00:27:25] 63% of consumers believe companies need to get better at listening to feedback.
[00:27:30] So that's more than half of consumers.
[00:27:32] 55% of consumers said that if a brand or a business owner responds to their review, they would feel positive about a business.
[00:27:39] So this kind of goes back to what we talked about before.
[00:27:41] You know, you can, if you fix something, it's even better than if the customer never had a problem to begin with.
[00:27:50] Okay.
[00:27:50] Okay.
[00:27:50] So some interesting examples of brands that I think have done a nice job of continuing to engage the consumer and turn them into advocates.
[00:28:01] GoPro.
[00:28:02] So they take all of the user, not all, but they take a lot of the user-generated content that consumers post and tag them in from the use of their cameras.
[00:28:12] And they repost it on their socials.
[00:28:14] So it kind of makes the consumer feel like they're a part of the marketing, which I know a lot of brands do that.
[00:28:20] And so it's, and it's, I think it's a pretty tried and true tactic to make consumers feel like they're communicating with you and like their values are being heard.
[00:28:29] And it's too bad we're on a podcast because I have a really cute puppy video.
[00:28:34] Put it in the show notes.
[00:28:35] I know.
[00:28:36] I think that.
[00:28:37] Or just at least send it to us.
[00:28:38] Yes.
[00:28:39] I'll send it to you.
[00:28:40] Any puppy video, anytime.
[00:28:42] It's like, who says you can't get a good picture of a puppy?
[00:28:45] Because, you know, they don't hold still.
[00:28:47] And then there's this, someone got a GoPro and got a really great video of this adorable puppy running.
[00:28:54] So that's a great one.
[00:28:55] Lego with their rebuild the world campaign, you know, again, kind of taking that user generated content and recirculating it out into the community.
[00:29:05] Garmin, same kind of thing.
[00:29:07] Andrea, I have another really good one that I experienced this weekend as an example.
[00:29:13] Ooh, I'm excited.
[00:29:14] Okay, give me another one.
[00:29:15] This is always, this podcast always comes at the perfect time.
[00:29:17] All of this stuff just happened to me.
[00:29:18] So Ever Eve.
[00:29:20] So I was looking to do a style box because I just didn't have time, like every season, to go and, like, pick out a new outfit or something like that.
[00:29:29] And I just didn't really want to do it.
[00:29:31] So I went on Reddit.
[00:29:33] To your point, it ties a lot of these pieces together.
[00:29:35] And I was like, what's the best style box?
[00:29:37] And they said Trends, Trendsend is what it's called.
[00:29:40] Trendsend, yeah.
[00:29:40] Yeah, so I ordered the Trendsend box and it's through the store Ever Eve.
[00:29:44] And I got my clothes and you kind of fill out the survey to say what your style is and then they send you the clothes.
[00:29:51] And then they actually have physical locations.
[00:29:52] And there's one right in Dedham, which is where I'm close to.
[00:29:56] And I go into the store and they have personal stylists who work at the store.
[00:30:02] They do not work off commission.
[00:30:04] And you walk in and you explain, like, what you liked and what you didn't like about your box.
[00:30:08] And they actually dress you.
[00:30:10] And I had the best experience shopping that I've ever had in my entire life.
[00:30:14] And then they took a picture and they're like, do you want to share this?
[00:30:17] Or take a picture of your outfit at your event and share it with us.
[00:30:22] And then they post it on their store site.
[00:30:24] And then you can go back and have a conversation with your stylist.
[00:30:28] And it was just from end to end an absolutely incredible experience.
[00:30:32] And I have told 15 people about this in terms of advocacy because I felt seen.
[00:30:37] I felt good.
[00:30:39] It was a great experience.
[00:30:40] And the product, like, the clothing is absolutely incredible.
[00:30:44] So it ties all of these things together.
[00:30:45] But I wanted to share that example, if anyone.
[00:30:48] They are a really great example, Lauren.
[00:30:50] I agree.
[00:30:51] I shopped there, too.
[00:30:52] And they, and you should, if you don't follow them on Instagram, they're a good follow because
[00:30:58] they actually take photos and videos of shoppers in the store, like, with their permission.
[00:31:02] And so you get to really see the clothes, I think, on real people, which, and they do style them and they make them look great.
[00:31:10] And they explain it.
[00:31:12] They explain why they did what they did, which also helps you make more informed choices when you're purchasing again in the future.
[00:31:18] Absolutely.
[00:31:19] That's a great example.
[00:31:21] I think you gave another one last time about your aura ring, which is, yes, they have kind of the fitness and sleep tracker.
[00:31:27] And they've got a community, you know, and then you can even look at some of the consumables brands like NYX Cosmetics.
[00:31:36] They're prominently featuring UGC in their marketing.
[00:31:40] They encourage shoppers to post makeup creations on social media, and then they'll sort of share those.
[00:31:48] It's not all about repurposing UGC.
[00:31:50] I think a lot of these examples are about that, but it's about how do you really actively engage with the shoppers, you know, after they have made the purchase and make them feel really included.
[00:32:01] There are some other examples of brands like Wise and Mad Rabbit we talked about in the past where they use their, they use online discussion boards and Reddit, et cetera, to get intel that will inform products and services.
[00:32:18] So they post a question out to the group.
[00:32:20] They're like, what, like, Wise will be like, what new tech do you want to see included in our next set of Bluetooth headphones?
[00:32:26] Or, you know, what, what are your biggest pain points with the ones you have now?
[00:32:29] And so they're kind of getting, they're using that audience to inform purchase decisions.
[00:32:34] And what better way to create a loyal shopper, right?
[00:32:37] Like all those followers on those forums are now going to go buy the next set of headphones because they had input into what features were included.
[00:32:44] So, so I think the takeaways for brands are find ways to actively engage with your shopper.
[00:32:50] And it's a two-way communication, find ways to incorporate their feedback.
[00:32:54] And this could be, you know, through some of these interactive campaigns, UGC being just really responsive, responsive and social.
[00:33:03] That's fine.
[00:33:04] I've been thinking a lot about kind of the arc of retail and sort of the exposure to products and sort of, and how, and, and where the sort of the shape of the journey.
[00:33:21] And kind of the, the decades trends that I've sort of been thinking about is that originally it was location, location, location.
[00:33:30] Then it really became phone, phone, phone.
[00:33:32] Like that's what you need to figure out.
[00:33:34] That was where the battleground was.
[00:33:36] And now I think it's me, me, me.
[00:33:37] That we are now in this era where you really do need to sell directly to a consumer.
[00:33:48] And obviously that happens through cohorts and niches and all that other stuff, but, but that that's where there's no reliable place to find them anymore.
[00:33:57] You have to just find them where they are.
[00:34:00] And I've obviously clearly not felt it, thought it through completely, but there's something about that sort of change in scope and scale going from, oh, it's near where I live to it's on a screen in front of me to it's what I want.
[00:34:17] It's you should know what I want and you should get it to me.
[00:34:22] I think that's, that's so poignant, Peter.
[00:34:25] And I just, I just read a New York Times article yesterday, I'll send it to you, where this, they said, want to understand the U.S. economy?
[00:34:33] Watch Shark Tank.
[00:34:34] And this reporter had gone back and watched every season of Shark Tank, like all together.
[00:34:40] And then they summarized like each, I know, right?
[00:34:43] And they summarized like each, like two, season one, season two, and kind of where the trends were and what the brands were focused on and what they cared about.
[00:34:53] So it's, like in the beginning, it was kind of more around like 2009.
[00:34:57] It was like brands that had stories about struggling and overcoming adversity.
[00:35:02] It was a lot about small business owners.
[00:35:04] Then it kind of, it moves a little bit and as the economy improved.
[00:35:11] And it's just interesting.
[00:35:12] They break it out by like every two years, they kind of summarize the different trends.
[00:35:17] But I think you're so right.
[00:35:19] I mean, the shape of the journey has changed a lot.
[00:35:22] And I like what you said about it originally being about location, then phone.
[00:35:25] And now it's about me.
[00:35:26] It's all about me.
[00:35:28] It's all about me.
[00:35:30] All about me.
[00:35:31] And it's so funny listening to you too.
[00:35:33] Not funny, but like, I'm such a horrible shopper.
[00:35:36] Like, I just, I don't have any of these examples because I just don't buy stuff.
[00:35:43] And so I'm horrible.
[00:35:44] I shouldn't be hosting this podcast.
[00:35:47] No, no, no.
[00:35:49] We'll buy for you, Peter.
[00:35:51] Don't worry.
[00:35:51] No, but it does make me think like, Lauren, listening to your experience, like when I purchase clothing,
[00:35:57] so often I just end up with one brand because I know they'll fit.
[00:36:02] Yeah.
[00:36:04] And so having an experience like that, but I hate being like, I would just break out in a sweat in an environment like that where someone's trying to dress me.
[00:36:16] So I don't know what the solution for me is.
[00:36:19] A box, a style box that you get at home and you can try it on and feel.
[00:36:23] Then you have to return it.
[00:36:25] You mail it back.
[00:36:28] I think that I have, I feel the opposite.
[00:36:30] I feel like because so much of, I spend my whole career is about like thinking about how people shop.
[00:36:36] I spend way too much time in stores and doing research.
[00:36:42] And I mean, we have, I have a new client that's a cosmetics brand.
[00:36:47] And so of course, immediately I went to TikTok and like bought some of their product just so I could have the experience and, you know, be able to talk about it.
[00:36:55] So yeah, I feel like my, my pocketbook would appreciate if I maybe had a different career.
[00:37:05] I spend it all on travel.
[00:37:06] So it's a experiences.
[00:37:08] Yes.
[00:37:09] Experiences.
[00:37:09] We'll have an experience podcast where you can talk about all your trips.
[00:37:12] Oh, that sounds good.
[00:37:13] There we go.
[00:37:13] There we go.
[00:37:15] So Andrea, did we get the take?
[00:37:18] We did get the takeaways.
[00:37:19] I wanted to make sure I hadn't.
[00:37:20] Yes.
[00:37:21] Yeah.
[00:37:21] So finding ways to actively engage with shoppers,
[00:37:24] incorporating their feedback and, you know, considering what can you do in terms of interactive campaigns, user generated content, responses, social community.
[00:37:32] That is fantastic.
[00:37:34] I think, you know, particularly, and we've talked about this really all year, the need to get more money out of the people, you know, as a brand, because customer, you know, customer acquisition costs are going up so much.
[00:37:48] And that well is not as simple as it used to be.
[00:37:51] And the themes that you've talked about this year, authenticity, trust and loyalty and advocacy are really the brand investments that must be made to build a sustainable business and to be able to find your areas of growth.
[00:38:08] So I think I just want to thank you, Andrea, for being here every quarter and telling such a compelling story of what it takes to be a brilliant brand, really, in this.
[00:38:22] And so I can't wait to do it again next year in your tour of personalization.
[00:38:29] But we're really grateful for all the knowledge that you bring to us.
[00:38:33] Thank you.
[00:38:33] Thanks for having me.
[00:38:34] And this quarter's report is going to be really exciting because we're actually pulling the whole year together in one report.
[00:38:39] So we'll have all of the themes that we just discussed from previous quarters, authenticity, trust, loyalty, and now advocacy kind of wrapped together into an annual format.
[00:38:50] So it'll be really easy for folks to kind of track along with all of the podcast episodes.
[00:38:56] Well, we'll talk about that in Q1.
[00:38:59] Yes.
[00:38:59] And you can find the report in the partner section of the DSI page.
[00:39:03] So if you go to digitalshelfinstitute.org, click on resources, then partners, you'll be able to find the report.
[00:39:09] Thank you, Andrea.
[00:39:11] Thanks for having me.
[00:39:12] It was so fun talking to you guys again.
[00:39:13] Thanks again to Andrea for all the wisdom.
[00:39:16] Their reports are also available in the partner content section under the resources tab on our website, digitalshelfinstitute.org.
[00:39:24] Become a member while you're there.
[00:39:26] Why don't you?
[00:39:26] It's free and great.
[00:39:28] Thanks for being part of our community.