[00:00:00] Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where industry leaders share insights, strategies and stories to help brands win in the ever-changing world of commerce.
[00:00:12] Hi everyone, Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Being a Challenger brand in the highly competitive baby formula category is not for the faint of heart. To the contrary, at HiPP Organic it takes a lot of heart, built from the family founders who needed a formula that their own child could tolerate.
[00:00:39] They now own 7% of the formula milk category in the UK and growing. Emily Jones, Ecommerce Channel Controller at HiPP Organic, joined the podcast to walk us through the omni-channel journey that is intensely focused on the needs of the parents and carers that they strive to connect with, wherever and however they want. Emily, welcome to the podcast. We are so excited to have you on. Thank you. Thank you. I'm pleased to be here.
[00:01:07] So you're in a really cool and yet competitive space in the baby food category at HiPP Organic. And it's a Challenger brand. Like you are competing with the bigger players. And you know, you have a probably a leaner marketing budget, I'm guessing, and smaller team. But you have a really clear picture of your consumer, from what I understand from watching a brand.
[00:01:32] So we'd love to start out just you telling us a little bit more about HiPP and sort of what are the business objectives that kind of lead your day? Sure. Yeah. So yeah, as I said, thanks for inviting me on. And it's actually lovely to be able to share a Challenger brand's perspective on e-commerce. So to share a little bit more about HiPP, we're family owned and run. As you said, we're a Challenger brand within the baby milk space.
[00:02:00] And our category is kind of fascinating. And it's also very emotive. So you have, you know, becoming a parent's obviously wonderful, but it can also be incredibly stressful. So we have that part to work with. And then, yeah, really what we're focused on is just trying to make parents and carers lives that little bit easier. And kind of no matter what their decision's been on like their feeding journey.
[00:02:25] And I'd love to know more about when you think about it competitively and also how you want to connect with your consumer. What sets HiPP Organic apart? Like what do you folks lean into? I think it's just like truly trying to put ourselves into the parents and carers shoes, to be honest. And actually what I think what helps is we are a big bunch of parents, different ages and different families, pet parents, baby parents, you name it.
[00:02:53] So, yeah, I think what really and because we're also family owned and those values do kind of come through quite strongly through the business, too. I think that really helps and, yeah, sets us apart. Yeah. And at a smaller company, Emily, I mean, I'm sure you wear many, many hats and have many jobs and have your hands in many different things. So can you talk a little bit about your role and kind of what you own? Yes. Yeah.
[00:03:21] So I guess there are a lot, a lot of hats that we wear. And it's a very broad scope. And I think that's quite typical of smaller businesses. And what it really means is we're kind of doing everything in a sense of we're leading and building that five year strategy. We're responsible for how we show up on the digital shelf down to being in stock and also hitting our targets.
[00:03:50] So it's a very broad scope. And we rely really, really heavily on our like our agency partners. So our Amazon agency, DTC fulfillment partners. So people that really specialize in these different areas. And then, yeah, there's very strong cross-functional working when it comes to working with our operations and marketing teams.
[00:04:15] And again, I'd say being in a smaller business, it's kind of a bit easier in some respects because, you know, you can just walk across, walk across the office and go and have a chat with Anne or Adam or, you know, it's a lot easier to collaborate and make decisions in that way. One thing I love was your title of e-commerce channel controller. Aha, you control these channels. I try.
[00:04:44] Trying to wrangle them in. And I was just wondering, because you mentioned DTC and also Amazon. Can you tell us a bit about your digital channel strategy and kind of do you have, do you ultimately want to get people into DTC or does it not matter? Like what's your, how do you think about them all in the sort of in the lifetime of a consumer? Really good question.
[00:05:06] Yeah, it's we, we've put a lot of work into reviewing all of the insights that we have to really understand more about the shopper journey. So how are shoppers engaging with our brands on the digital shelf? Like where are they choosing to purchase and when? And then that's what we've kind of then fed into our, our strategy really.
[00:05:30] So as an example, if you look at the likes of Amazon, say what you'd probably have is a shopper researching on Amazon, you know, kind of decided what brand they want. So they're wanting to read more into the brand, but then they may actually want to go to a physical shop, which people still do crazy to buy that product because they want to kind of feel it and touch it. And, you know, this is what they're going to feed the baby.
[00:05:57] And then they may come back to e-commerce to subscribe because they've kind of made their decision. It's heavy. It's quite expensive. They'll then want to subscribe. And so, yeah, what we've tried to do is, is get really clear on what the different areas of e-com offer our shoppers, what they want from us really, and then kind of build our range and content to, to work with that.
[00:06:24] Yeah, it's, and it's, it's crazy working across the dip because all of those retailers are different. They're kind of fulfillment routes with those retailers are all completely different. And, yeah, our kind of end goal is just being where the shopper is and kind of making it as frictionless as possible for them. And from a, that's enough to worry about. Yeah, no, that is enough to worry about for sure. And from a content perspective, though, since you own the digital shelf, do you own the content on all of those different channels?
[00:06:53] Because I feel like that could make it easier to keep consistency across D2C and your PDP and your retail media ads and everything. Yeah, so we have, it's all kind of managed in-house. And so our marketing team, somebody in our marketing team is kind of overly responsible for all of our content. But then each part of that content, those different areas of content are kind of developed based on the platform.
[00:07:20] And so what you see on our D2C would, you know, differ to what you see on Amazon, for example, versus what you see with any grocery. But it's the same brand voice across each of them, right? Exactly. Yes, exactly. And I think that's where it helps with marketing owning it. So that kind of tone of voice is the same, but what is said and, you know, even the images could be different depending on the channel that you're shopping on.
[00:07:48] Particularly because I imagine as a challenger brand, and you talking about it being a family-owned company, it's very important for those things, I would imagine, to ring through no matter where you discover. Because it is such a crowded category, and there are very loud voices in it. Yeah. And it's, in some respects, it's lovely, because I've worked for big businesses where we didn't actually have a story to tell.
[00:08:15] You know, we kind of created like incubator brands that really, you know, were from a big corporate. Whereas I think what's lovely about HIP is you basically had a couple, two parents that were struggling to feed their twins that developed a formula and then kind of started to sell it. So that kind of story and that heritage is... That ethos, yeah. Yeah, it's already there. And it's still felt through the business today, which I think is, yeah, very unique.
[00:08:44] And Emily, you report up through sales or... Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so that makes me think about the, you know, the working and omni-channel campaign through that way across your organization. How do you get everyone aligned? Like, and of course, we're in a period of a lot of change and the shopper with Agentic and things like that, it seems they get even more control.
[00:09:13] And you folks, in some ways, get less control. So I'm just wondering how the organization works itself through that process and through the change that is constantly happening in this business. Yeah. And I think it is. It's like constant change management. You kind of think you've got one thing sorted and then something else pops up. And I think that's why we all love working in digital slashy commerce. Because we must all get bored easily.
[00:09:41] But yeah, it keeps us on our way. You love slash hate, right? I feel like there's a little slash in there. The slight, like, yeah. Yeah. Your eye twitching. Yep. I get it. Exactly. Yeah. I was just thinking that's probably not captured. Yeah. So I'd say I think there's two things. We have to, like, really focus on bringing people on the journey with us and then also being really clear on priorities.
[00:10:07] And those two elements are fundamental to kind of driving any change, I think, through any business. So if I talk to maybe bringing people on the journey and what that looks like, we spent a lot of time up front myth busting because I kind of share it as like skeletons in closets.
[00:10:28] But they're those, like, hypotheses, those worries that you could bring a proposal to your leadership team and it's a no immediately because you haven't understood their concerns. Everything that lies around in the dusty corners. It's kind of bubbling. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's kind of been the first most helpful step, I think, that we took.
[00:10:54] And then it's also, like, engaging that broader internal team so that they kind of understand the context behind any of those priorities that we've set ourselves. And, again, like, what that looks like is we would bring that broader Amazon team to our Amazon quarterly business review, for example. You know, it's just helping people understand why we do what we do.
[00:11:19] And then, yeah, I think the bit that's been hardest for me as a quite an agreeable, personable millennial woman was just being really direct and saying the thing and asking for help and, you know, escalating when there are roadblocks. And I think probably learned the hard way that it just needs to get done.
[00:11:45] But, yeah, so I'd say from, like, bringing people on the journey, you've got that side. And then if I talk to quickly kind of how we focus on priorities. And in a smaller business, it's really tempting to say yes to everything, which we can't resource. So it becomes, like, what are we actually not going to do?
[00:12:06] And then setting maximum, like, three to five priority areas, kind of building the project team around those projects. And then, yeah, focusing quarterly on tracking those projects through versus the KPIs that we've set. And from that perspective, Emily, I'm curious, because things change so rapidly in our industry, how do you think about adaptable planning, right?
[00:12:35] So maybe you set those three priorities and then you check in for the quarter and you're like, oh, no, like, maybe we need to shift this in or out. Do you have a way to be flexible? And how do you convince, like, finance and legal and everyone else to be on board with that flexibility? Yeah, I think actually one thing that's really reassuring is we have, as a business, moved to quarterly planning. So we'll only ever, yeah, I think so. We will only ever plan, like, the next quarter out.
[00:13:05] So your current quarter, next quarter. And then, as you say, like, things are changing all the time. And so that might mean that, you know, something new and shiny comes up. And then at that point we'll be like, well, is it right to focus on this? If yes, well, again, what are we not going to do as a consequence of this? Yeah. And I'd say, you know, agentic commerce, AI, like, you know, they're all different areas. Yeah, exactly.
[00:13:36] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And on this, just staying on this omni-channel piece just a little bit more, I'm just wondering, because I imagined that it's your roots are in store. Like, that's where the real relationship started to be built. And how does the overall, at this point in your tenure, how does the overall organization, and maybe particularly leadership, think about the importance or lack thereof?
[00:14:05] You know, like, where are they on the, we're really leaning into this, or it's critical to our omni-channel success? Like, and I'm just wondering where that sort of mindset is at this point. Yeah. And we are, you know, I think, like quite a few food and beverage brands, like, we are weighted more heavily towards traditional, like, what we call traditional trades, like, stores.
[00:14:31] And we still are today, but, you know, we can see that, again, it's parents and carers, the parents and carers that are, you know, our future parents and carers are Gen Z. And they are, you know, they're digital first, they're, you know, they may still go to a shop. But I do think that percentage of sales, it will continue to shift. And the influence of it, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:57] So from, I'd say, from like a digital marketing perspective, I feel really proud of where we are in a sense of how we're showing up, you know, when shoppers, you know, when parents and carers are looking to research for us, how we're showing up, I think is helpful. And kind of unique and also authentic to us as a brand. And I'd like to answer the point. So, like, the kind of strategic importance, I would say I'm a perfectionist. So it will never be.
[00:15:27] Yes. Probably as important as I would like it to be. But I work in digital commerce. Yes. So, yeah, I would say that we do have that support. You know, we've got that team in place. But there is still friction, I would say, when you work in a traditional trade kind of business. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Can I just ask you one more question?
[00:15:55] Because I keep hearing you say parents and carers. And I would love to, that's, the carers is a new sort of, I was wondering where that term, what that term signifies separately from, is it, yeah, anyway, I would love to just understand. Oh, yeah, I think, I just always say it because I feel like it's inclusive. Yeah, no, no, it is. I was just wondering what it was inclusive of. Yeah, I think it's just because, I know they say it takes a village. And I think, like, it does.
[00:16:23] So, it's literally, like, it might not just be your kind of parents. It could be grandparents or, you know, extended family or, you know, even childcare settings, really. It's just to kind of acknowledge that you've got that broader kind of network now. And do you message to carers at all? Or is it just, you use that language, but it's really the same message to out to market? Yeah. Yeah, essentially. Yeah.
[00:16:52] Yeah, because it would be, I guess, our kind of communications with parents. I'm going to say it again, parents and care. It must have been drilled into me. Yeah, we would, you know, essentially communicate with whoever contacts us who needs support. Yeah, exactly. And then also in our marketing content, again, we would be very inclusive of that kind of broader village that it takes to help raise a baby.
[00:17:22] But I think that's a great point that you know your consumer and you know who's involved. And so, you're messaging to them in an authentic way. And I think that speaks to who you are as a brand and kind of how you care about who you're serving. So, I think that's amazing. And then, Emily, you've mentioned a bit, right? You're a challenger brand, right? We know this. And there's other bigger brands that might have very, very big marketing budgets. And so, there's always a question. Maybe, right? Just, just... There's always a question.
[00:17:50] How do you compete if you don't have the large marketing budget budgets? Like, how do you think about that differently from a challenger brand side? Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, we don't... Sadly, we can't outspend them. We'd love to. So, yeah, it does mean that we have to do things differently. And I think from our side, I guess the benefit is we can be quite nimble. You know, we can kind of test and learn.
[00:18:19] We don't need to ask for lots of permission through different levels to get things away. So, I think, yeah, really, we have to be more targeted to kind of what we're trying to do because we can't grow everything across every platform. So, yeah, it's just really about being nimble, moving quickly, testing and learning. If something's working, we do more of it.
[00:18:48] If something doesn't work, we stop it. And that's what we have to do, essentially. And how does that work with, like, testing new channels, right? Because sometimes that also takes budget, right? So, you can't have too many tests going on. And then you also have to run the base business. And you need to figure out, is it the right channel to work with? So, how do you kind of balance that kind of perspective? Yeah. And I think we have the added complexity as well of once you've added a new channel in,
[00:19:18] you have to manage it as well. So, you've kind of got that initial part of, like, right, we want to do, you know, we want to launch this new channel, for example. We think it's really relevant to Gen Z. We have to kind of go away and cost all of that up. But then we also have to think about, well, who's going to do this work as well? So, that would form, like, an important part of it.
[00:19:45] When there's an opportunity, I think our leadership team is very open to, you know, if it's going to help us grow and be more relevant for shoppers, like nine times out of ten, I'd say we do the thing. But then it becomes more about how do we resource that channel? It goes back up to your, what do you say no to? What do you shift around? And then it could be, actually, we do want to do this,
[00:20:12] but here's an agency that does it really well. So, we'll maybe own the comms side of it, but they could run it from a fulfillment perspective, for example. It's kind of almost, not outsourcing, but leaning on specialists in those areas. Absolutely. It's such a complex area. Yeah. It's such a complex area. And there's a reason why agencies exist. And so, you want to be able to lean into that,
[00:20:40] especially with a, you know, with a small team, to just get that additional expertise of working with a bunch of different people and having resources that can flex at the agency when needed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you said the key word, which is growth. I mean, the big question and, I mean, birth rates, given what they are in various countries, like growth has to be, I would imagine, largely achieved by stealing market share.
[00:21:08] Or, as you said, finding a new channel in order to steal market share. Is that sort of how you think about it? Yeah. From my parents earlier, in a way. Yeah. I think from like a, if I think like a, one of our retail partners, yes. Like we're kind of, we're a challenger brand. So, we are here to like disrupt and to gain share away from those larger brands.
[00:21:30] And I think like where we're helpful is we're organic and the category isn't 100% organic. So, we kind of lead in that area. And then it's, it's just kind of really focusing on that strength. So, you know, some parents and carers will choose organic above non-organic, for example.
[00:21:53] So, it's just kind of building to our strengths and that helps drive the category value too alongside it. So, Emily, I'm assuming you don't have a lot of new products that you put out, right? It could be maybe like a refresh or a packaging change or something like that. So, how do you think about continuously engaging with parents? Is it engaging with them on educational content? Is it talking about like restocking? Like, I'm just curious.
[00:22:21] You don't have a lot of new products and a lot of other brands might. So, how do you think about keeping that relationship up? Yeah. And I think you're right. There is, there aren't huge amounts of innovation, especially not in baby milk or formula milk. So, you're right. We have to just keep, like, keep that conversation going. And it's, to be honest, it's more from a marketing and like our consumer perspective in a sense of how we communicate,
[00:22:51] whether that be through like brand ambassadors, you know, building communities, social media, you know, how we kind of, how we keep engaging with those parents and carers, but again, like in a relevant way. So, we're kind of giving them useful information. So, the ability to sort of tell those deeper stories, to add channels, to test and learn,
[00:23:19] that's some place where I would think AI could be helpful to you to maybe help you achieve some of that additional scale or ability to reach even finer sort of slices of your consumer. And then additionally, where AI is now becoming, as we talked about a little bit about this earlier, of the shopper's sort of new shelf is the agentic shelf.
[00:23:47] And I'm just wondering how you think about AI and employing that to both serve your, you know, your work, but then also to show up for the consumer. Yeah, I'm quite excited by it because I just want to know more and more about it in a sense of like, you know, if we can get closer to what kind of queries people are, you know, what kind of questions people are asking, what do they want to know?
[00:24:16] Then I think, again, that helps us develop our content to be even more relevant in the future, not to kind of rank higher, but more to just be like, actually, if we keep just bringing it back to what do they want to know when they're making these kind of queries and searches? And how can we best answer that? Then I think we'll naturally will return really well because we're giving them what they need.
[00:24:44] Well, and that's the thing about being a challenger brand and having such a strong ethos is that I would imagine that that appreciation flows through to your consumers and they share, they talk, they comment. So as you lose direct control over, you know, you can't really control agentic. No, no. The people you know can. Yeah.
[00:25:10] You know, the people that are connected to your brand and probably influencers that you do have relationships with, I would imagine things like that. But that's where I think the authenticity shines through in that environment versus sort of brand, you know, brand spending power and things like that. Yeah, you're right. Because I think that, you know, people share the good and the bad, don't they?
[00:25:35] But I think you kind of know if you've got a strong brand, if you look at those reviews and, you know, that your review ranking is high and people just can't help but talk about it. If it's made a difference to, you know, their baby in whatever way or to them, they will share it, thankfully. Alongside, you know, the other elements where, you know, they might not be so happy with their delivery or whatever.
[00:26:01] But then it's how you show up in that moment, which I imagine as a challenger brand, you're very present for those conversations. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I'd take that almost a step further because when we do have challenges, say, for example, even with a delivery, that comes straight back to our team internally.
[00:26:21] You know, we'll kind of go and try and fault fix and understand what's happened there and then put a solution in place, which I think would potentially set us apart to a bigger business where, you know, your account manager may not even know that that's happened. And the delivery of your baby formula, I would imagine, is a very important thing to get right. Exactly. Yes, it is.
[00:26:49] Well, Emily, thank you for walking us through your business and how you folks think about it and the work that you put into showing up for your consumers in such an authentic and really empathetic way. I think it speaks incredibly well of your organization.
[00:27:07] And what you've built there in your time there is just, it really does, I think you feel, you sort of express the difference that it makes across the omni-channel journey. And I think that's, you know, that's, again, where the growth is going to come from. So thank you so much for sharing all that. Thank you. Well, thank you for inviting me on. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Emily. Thanks again to Emily for sharing their omni-channel journey.
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