[00:00:00] Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.
[00:00:16] Hey everyone, Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. The pressure to achieve omni-channel growth profitably is on, and it's changing the way brands need to operate.
[00:00:26] Jamie Schwab, now VP of Global Digital Commerce at Colgate-Palmolive, has lived through the stages of e-commerce, from being the secret sideshow to its role as a driver of growth at companies like Unilever, Newell, and Dole.
[00:00:40] Now he leads a global center of excellence, defining the people, process, data, and tech that will achieve the expected profitable omni-results by enabling the best omni-consumer experiences.
[00:00:54] It's an exciting and challenging journey, and Jamie joined Lauren Lebach-Gilbert and me to share the details.
[00:01:01] Welcome to the podcast, Jamie. We are so looking forward to chatting with you. Thank you for being with us.
[00:01:07] My pleasure. Good to see you guys.
[00:01:09] Yeah, I mentioned in the opening, you have had a wealth of experience at some of the biggest CPG companies, and you've been on the e-commerce journey from a small fraction of the business that worked over on the side to a huge driver of growth.
[00:01:24] So I just love your sense of where the state of e-commerce, digital commerce is right now.
[00:01:32] See, I think from my vantage point, we're coming around to a very mature section of the growth curve with e-commerce, where profitability has got to be the main focus,
[00:01:44] and identifying what levers to pull to continue to deliver on that growth, but do it in a profitable way.
[00:01:51] And really what it comes down to is managing a lot of complexity of essentially this new commercial model versus the historical one.
[00:01:59] And that's our most pressing need as e-commerce practitioners, as e-commerce professionals within organizations that have been building businesses profitably for decades after decades overall.
[00:02:15] Really, the attention to the right details is vital.
[00:02:19] So putting frameworks around challenges is crucial.
[00:02:22] And we'll probably dive deep into this in a few different ways, but people, process, and technology fueled by data needs has to be the main focus for commercial operations to keep up with this evolving marketplace.
[00:02:35] And Jamie, when you mentioned the new commercial model, is the image in your head that's popping up e-commerce, or is the image omni-channel?
[00:02:44] And how do you think about it?
[00:02:46] Like, what is that new commercial model that you're working towards right now?
[00:02:50] Yeah, I think that's a great question.
[00:02:51] I'll tell you what I used to say, and then I'll maybe ad-lib a little bit on where we're at right now.
[00:02:58] Okay.
[00:02:58] Because I used to talk about how if the commercial model was an aircraft carrier, right, pulling into port,
[00:03:11] you needed something different with e-commerce.
[00:03:14] And you probably needed a whole bunch of small tactical boats that could go out and compete and do what they're supposed to do out there,
[00:03:23] because it was just different, and you couldn't turn that aircraft carrier at the same speed and pace that you needed to in order to address the needs.
[00:03:33] I think that's dead.
[00:03:34] I do think that that model has since passed.
[00:03:37] So that's why I chuckle a little bit when I bring up what I would say two, three years ago, because it has to integrate into Omni, right?
[00:03:45] And you've got to start to put these different pieces together.
[00:03:48] Whether or not you get into a conversation about living in sales or living in marketing, or is e-commerce just a channel, right?
[00:03:57] The fact of the matter is it's a puzzle piece that fits into something that's bigger, but now it's a big puzzle piece, right?
[00:04:05] And it's the puzzle piece that's growing, tends to be growing more than every other piece in that puzzle.
[00:04:10] So it's Omni.
[00:04:13] We are living in an Omni world, and how we adjust to it, again, with the people-processed tech, is really what we have to sort through.
[00:04:21] So along the lines of people-processed tech, process, which sometimes people stop listening because they think it's super tactical.
[00:04:29] I always say people think process is a dirty word, but it's not.
[00:04:32] It's incredibly critical when it comes to the digital shelf and having the right operations.
[00:04:37] So can you talk a bit about your journey through the process for the digital shelf and how that's evolved?
[00:04:43] Sure.
[00:04:44] I'd be happy to.
[00:04:45] And, yes, I enjoy the process conversation, which I don't know what that says about me, but that's probably why I listen to your podcast and why I'm here talking today in general.
[00:04:55] But I think the framing is what's really important.
[00:04:59] And when it's done well, I like to say process is improved via technology, and it makes people's work lives better, easier, or more attainable, however you want to quantify what success looks like.
[00:05:14] How it comes together with people in tech is usually, unfortunately, something that takes artistry to describe.
[00:05:21] You talked about the journey here with the digital shelf at Colgate-Palmolive.
[00:05:25] I'm lucky that between the incredible talent on my team with Todd Hazenfeld and Elisa Levinsky, along with our external partners who I'll just leave nameless and they can yell at me later.
[00:05:36] The journey of the digital shelf is well underway.
[00:05:40] And it was well underway when I arrived.
[00:05:43] We're about four years in, and I arrived halfway through that.
[00:05:47] And when it comes down to it, you have to establish your metrics and your benchmarks as a starting place, driving for some level of improvement against those numbers, right?
[00:05:57] Month in and month out, working with our markets around the world.
[00:06:00] And just kind of saying that is, that's the journey overall.
[00:06:05] When you put those benchmarks in place, your help identifying where energy and resources are needed.
[00:06:11] Realizing those resources may not always be very available.
[00:06:15] So problem solving with the local market teams is what it all comes down to.
[00:06:20] Really, one of the biggest, I mean, really maybe turn off people and put them to sleep, but how do we ensure data integrity, right?
[00:06:28] So decision making is sound and drives impact, right?
[00:06:32] That's the biggest part of the journey that no one really wants to ever really talk about in general.
[00:06:39] But it's where a lot of energy has to reside, especially sitting kind of in a global function like we do.
[00:06:47] So, you know, ensuring data integrity, right?
[00:06:50] That can sound like a whole bunch of corporate speak.
[00:06:53] But if you take it the other way, that's a huge challenge for us to overcome.
[00:06:58] We're at this inflection point in e-commerce, like I was saying a little while ago in terms of where we exist, how we exist structurally.
[00:07:06] But we've been stacking up growth year on year.
[00:07:08] And this is pretty much it, most companies that you talk to right now, overall.
[00:07:13] So the materiality of how we deliver the next phase of growth is really, really vital overall.
[00:07:22] And it's changed the dynamic of what this journey looks like.
[00:07:25] If you're succeeding on your digital shelf benchmarks and scores and numbers, are you succeeding?
[00:07:31] Or is that the entry point?
[00:07:34] Is that the table stakes in the entire game of what we're trying to do?
[00:07:38] So can we deliver two or three X growth?
[00:07:42] How are you going to find out whether or not you have unlocks on your digital shelf to deliver that next phase of the growth?
[00:07:50] That's really where good process and technology can come together to help you shine the right lights in the right places.
[00:07:57] And I don't know, just saying all that felt like a journey.
[00:08:01] But that gives you a sense kind of where things are at and how we're seeing the world right now.
[00:08:07] And you mentioned you're in a global role.
[00:08:09] So can you talk a bit about the process from a global to regional perspective, right?
[00:08:14] So do you set a process at a global level and then have the regions iterate on that?
[00:08:21] Like, how does that dynamic work?
[00:08:24] The dynamics, it's real.
[00:08:26] And it's, you know, I've, Peter, you mentioned at the outset that I've been around the CPG universe for quite a number of years now.
[00:08:34] So I've seen it done very differently in my different organizations that I've worked for.
[00:08:39] At Colgate, I like to say we're probably decentralized.
[00:08:42] We are a group of divisions and markets who the decision making resides with them and they get to drive and grow the business as they see fit.
[00:08:52] So much is different than other kind of command and control structures that I've been a part of throughout the course of my career.
[00:08:59] So where we sit in the current day, right, is that we're a company that attempts, we're a central team that attempts to guide and advise from the center versus dictate, right?
[00:09:11] So that said, in the center, we're also a team of experts with well-rounded experience so we can find teams on the ground that are thirsting for our help and our support and that guidance and counsel as we go.
[00:09:27] So as an operating principle for me, recommendations do need to come from the center, but they need to be in collaboration with the regions.
[00:09:35] So the first thing that we do is listen and we understand what is going on, what their needs are, what their gaps are,
[00:09:42] and where we believe that we can provide either actual direct support or support along the means of improved process, improved vendors, improved partners in the marketplace to drive for those solutions that they need overall.
[00:10:01] So that's really it. We start by listening and then we come back and we partner up with the teams on the ground.
[00:10:07] You know, when we mentioned earlier the where do we sit, right, and we're no longer a big ship and a bunch of little ships out there,
[00:10:16] that dynamic still is at play from an operational standpoint.
[00:10:20] So my team's partnering with the digital commerce teams on the ground.
[00:10:23] They could be sitting in a division of Latin America serving all the countries from Mexico on down south, right?
[00:10:31] Or we could be working with the U.S. team and the North America team here in the States.
[00:10:36] So how do we understand, right, what their challenges are?
[00:10:41] But their challenges are usually somewhat uniquely manifest, but not necessarily unique, right?
[00:10:50] So content syndication, distribution, source of truth, those types of things, right?
[00:10:55] So our ultimate guide is how can we provide back and support and counsel that gives solutions that can scale,
[00:11:03] both within a region and across our entire organization overall.
[00:11:08] I keep not to not to pound your metaphor any further, but I keep thinking of that an aircraft carrier just won't work these days.
[00:11:19] Like it's almost like a super fast destroyer.
[00:11:22] Like your group needs to be the one that is sort of pounding through the rough seas, like solving the big problems so that,
[00:11:31] A, we don't have time for planes to land on the aircraft carrier, refuel, figure things out.
[00:11:36] They need to be out there going where they're going.
[00:11:38] And then you were just making it that.
[00:11:40] Anyway, sorry.
[00:11:41] I just started.
[00:11:41] Throw that in there for your next metaphor, reverb.
[00:11:47] Battleship, anyone?
[00:11:48] I'll try to go back to sports metaphors.
[00:11:52] Yeah, that's probably better.
[00:11:54] But I did actually, because what I loved when you started our conversation around process,
[00:12:00] one of the things that you said is that process is about making our people's lives slash jobs better, easier, faster, stronger.
[00:12:09] And I loved that.
[00:12:10] And then one of the things that you went to, so that's really binding those two things, people and process together.
[00:12:17] But then that third thing that you talked about, which is data integrity, that none of this happens if you can't count on what's giving you the signals and the rapidity with which that's refreshed and the ability to take action on.
[00:12:32] And I wonder, you know, I imagine that must be a huge collaboration with IT, with data teams.
[00:12:41] And I'm just wondering how, you know, to the degree you would share, like how all of that works to make sure that you can claim data integrity and have your folks feel confident about it.
[00:12:50] So I think right now it's a huge attention to detail.
[00:12:52] And you have to be selective in terms of where you're going to seek out and find that smoothness in the data so that it can flow.
[00:13:03] So I used to talk a lot about ecosystems as well with my teams and our partners and that you can be agnostic of who it is, if it's a partner, if it's an agency, if it's our internal teams.
[00:13:15] Right. But it's got to be an ecosystem and a smooth flow.
[00:13:18] Right. Of of data transferring to make decisions and keep the keep the engine running.
[00:13:23] Basically, overall, I think.
[00:13:27] We don't suffer from a lack of data.
[00:13:32] Right. Everybody knows this.
[00:13:33] You hear people talk about the great analogy of data is oil, but you need to refine it to actually use it.
[00:13:42] Right. That whole piece that comes along.
[00:13:45] So so what are we doing and what data do we need to refine?
[00:13:50] Do we need to ensure we can put into the engine?
[00:13:53] So that it can run. Right.
[00:13:55] That gets into working very closely and collaboratively with our partners.
[00:13:59] Right. And so whether or not it's our digital shelf data providers, our bid management systems, our our sources of truth from a PIM dam standpoint.
[00:14:11] Right. It really gets into an incredible level of governance and governance sounds so scary.
[00:14:19] Oh, God. Governance. Right.
[00:14:21] But what is it? It's clear definitions of how you're going to put stuff into a database.
[00:14:25] Right. Like tagging. Tagging sounds terrifying until it's just like, well, we have a uniform way of putting a code on this asset.
[00:14:33] Okay. That doesn't sound so scary. Right.
[00:14:35] So I think you have to be selective. Right.
[00:14:39] In these days, because you could turn around and look at all the explosive retail media platform possibilities and choices and things that are out there right now.
[00:14:47] Right. Which should also guide where our data strategy comes and harmonizes with the digital shelf to know whether or not we have availability.
[00:14:59] Do we get good search rankings? Is our content ready and fit for purpose for what we're trying to do overall?
[00:15:05] And if it's not going to send you the right signal or can I only accept a signal from one provider?
[00:15:11] You know, what does that look like? So it gets super complicated.
[00:15:16] And I just think like most things in life, you got to prioritize and make some choices. Right.
[00:15:21] So top markets, top retailers and top data providers so that you can actually put these pieces together to create some semblance of an ecosystem.
[00:15:31] Right. But the collaboration with our global IT team, GIT, that we have, the collaboration with our insights team globally,
[00:15:41] that also feeds right into the markets. Like these are all vital components of overlap as we go on this journey of data integrity.
[00:15:51] Right. Which I actually have always kind of laughed and I say this to to to to this fabulous woman, Marissa, who runs the program in our organization.
[00:16:01] Writing a data strategy seems pretty easy when you have an example of somebody who's done it from who has one.
[00:16:07] Right. Knowing what it takes to do a data strategy is the thing that makes people basically crawl under the desk.
[00:16:15] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:17] And Jamie, you mentioned IT. Can we just talk about that for a second?
[00:16:20] Because when you're talking about data and you're talking about governance and the digital shelf in general,
[00:16:23] what have been some best practices or good ways of working, collaborating with the global IT team,
[00:16:30] especially as a global team? Because they're a critical component of this.
[00:16:35] And traditionally in some organizations, they've been kind of separate, but it seems like you have a good collaborative relationship.
[00:16:41] So any best practices there in working with them?
[00:16:44] Yeah, I think it's getting very clear on the deliverable.
[00:16:51] Right. And that an MVP is a starting point when it comes down to it.
[00:16:55] I think that's probably the two biggest pieces over the last couple of years working with with our GIT team.
[00:17:01] And and we're and we're making great progress because once you can see what that end is and goal of what you have,
[00:17:09] and then you can start to work back from it.
[00:17:11] You know, I had a blessing in my life in hindsight that my first kind of real job was or maybe my second real job was I did software consulting,
[00:17:22] designing, you know, online databases in Oracle to to migrate desktop platforms onto the web.
[00:17:29] Wow. That's a mouthful. Right.
[00:17:33] But nothing's really apologies to the cloud people and the data lake people and everything else.
[00:17:39] But nothing's really changed.
[00:17:41] You're trying to put a whole bunch of data together and be able to slam it together to give you a better output.
[00:17:45] Right. That's literally all that it is.
[00:17:47] It's super complicated. I can't do it.
[00:17:49] I can't write a lick of code. Right.
[00:17:51] But it's really what it all comes down to is can point a figure out how to assign values or, you know, the primary keys to put everything together into point table B.
[00:18:04] Right. To then put something together based off of that.
[00:18:07] If you if you can, then you can start to make a lot of progress in connecting pipes and doing all these other things along the way.
[00:18:15] So what's great is our GIT team, our leadership, they they very much understand this.
[00:18:21] And so we're just working together on what do we need to do?
[00:18:24] What how clear do we need to make it?
[00:18:27] And how can we create these these internal platforms that really work together to enable the markets to deliver on their goals?
[00:18:38] I love that.
[00:18:40] And how are your how do you make sure.
[00:18:44] That the incentives are aligned across your team and theirs, is it that shared goal?
[00:18:50] Like, is it something that people are held accountable to or is it that you're lucky enough to have leadership?
[00:18:55] That that is already sort of in that mindset of.
[00:18:59] Of being aligned.
[00:19:00] It's I mean, it's a process, right?
[00:19:03] Just just like anything else we we go through the significant planning process and everything else to to highlight what what it is we're trying to do next year's budgets, all that good stuff.
[00:19:15] So it's it's pretty normal, I believe, in general.
[00:19:21] But you have to go through that that difficult part of the process, which is actually to articulate what it is you're trying to accomplish.
[00:19:28] Yeah.
[00:19:29] You know, what what would the value be of that and everything along those lines?
[00:19:32] So there's nothing necessarily.
[00:19:38] That different than back when I was in a previous role, when we were consolidating seven tech stacks into one.
[00:19:46] Right.
[00:19:48] Most of the work went on in discovery and that that part of the process with our IT partners and our business commercial partners and everything else that we were doing to try and figure out what are we doing?
[00:20:00] Right.
[00:20:01] And then letting the technical people peel off and go figure out what that meant and what what that was going to mean from a working standpoint overall.
[00:20:10] So, yeah, that investment of work up front is so, so critical.
[00:20:14] And often people just want to jump to the the due date.
[00:20:18] Yeah.
[00:20:19] And in a world where it's been very interesting over the last, I'd say, five, seven years for me personally, because when I mentioned having started in software consulting a long time ago, that was back when they were pioneering the agile methodology of software development back then.
[00:20:37] Right.
[00:20:37] And, you know, it was we're not going to do the IBM waterfall where we just ta-da, everything works or it doesn't.
[00:20:44] Right.
[00:20:44] When at the end, we're going to build the components and then adjust the components as we build until we get to the to the final product.
[00:20:51] That's the whole principle of agile.
[00:20:53] You move faster.
[00:20:54] You move in parallel.
[00:20:55] You define your your dependencies as you go.
[00:20:59] Right.
[00:21:01] Cool.
[00:21:01] It was really interesting when I was 25 years old.
[00:21:05] But now I've I've seen at other companies and you hear it similarly kind of everywhere you go, like people are trying to bring agile methodology into everything that we that brand manufacturers might want to do.
[00:21:19] Right.
[00:21:19] In terms of we want to be agile in our approach to creating new innovations.
[00:21:23] We want to be agile in our approach to IT within the context of a giant CPG.
[00:21:28] That's it's all good, but it's so important that you start with super razor clarity on what you're trying to get to at the end, even if the end is the beginning because it's MVP.
[00:21:41] Right.
[00:21:41] And you move forward.
[00:21:43] I'm so glad you said that because my past experience on the brand side, we talked a lot about agile and it was just all about like be agile, have stand up.
[00:21:52] Like and we were not focused on what we were trying to achieve.
[00:21:56] And I know we'll talk about this in a bit, but I relate that to also like AI, like use AI, use AI.
[00:22:01] But why are you using AI or like why are you using agile or what is the problem that you're trying to solve?
[00:22:07] And I think that is a super clear takeaway for anything e-commerce.
[00:22:11] Right.
[00:22:11] What is the problem you're actually trying to solve?
[00:22:13] Like and what are the people process technology that can help you get there?
[00:22:17] But if you're not razor focused, then being agile is just going to make you work more efficiently, but not necessarily get you to where you need to go.
[00:22:25] You can move fast, but.
[00:22:27] To what?
[00:22:29] Yeah.
[00:22:30] Yeah.
[00:22:31] So Lauren was heading us in the right direction.
[00:22:34] And you mentioned at the top of the show, the new commercial model is a profitable one.
[00:22:41] And yet at the same time, here we are talking about all the additional complexities that we're introducing into the business.
[00:22:48] You know, profitability is made up of doing things for less cost and making more money while you're at it.
[00:22:54] Right.
[00:22:54] I mean, it's that's what I understand, at least.
[00:22:57] And so if that's the case and we need to to achieve that in an ever more competitive environment, then something needs to step in to transform the scale and scope at which we're able to do things and the continuous optimization.
[00:23:16] And that seems to be the promise of AI.
[00:23:18] But, you know, we're early days.
[00:23:22] Right.
[00:23:22] And so I would just love your perspective on, hey, is that a route to profitability?
[00:23:28] Can it can it address both sides of the of the balance sheet, if you will?
[00:23:34] And and how do you think about about get finding your way along that path?
[00:23:39] That's a really cool year as far as I'm concerned.
[00:23:43] Right.
[00:23:44] Because it's been about a year that the new models have come out and and we've created environments for ourselves to protect ourselves internally, corporately and all that other good stuff.
[00:23:56] And Lauren, I couldn't help but thinking about the metaverse when you were talking about agile.
[00:24:01] Oh, my gosh.
[00:24:02] I know.
[00:24:02] I know.
[00:24:03] But but I think it's important, at least it's important sometimes to say it.
[00:24:08] Right.
[00:24:09] Like the latest thing.
[00:24:11] This one is different than the last one.
[00:24:13] Yeah.
[00:24:13] It just is.
[00:24:14] And it and and as hard as it was to push back against the last one, because I just always felt like we had foundational challenges.
[00:24:23] Again, this is not a Colgate statement, but because of where I was at at the time, like we had other fish to from when it came to the metaverse.
[00:24:29] Right.
[00:24:29] We had plenty of other problems and challenges that could yield tremendous results if we would just focus on some of the basics.
[00:24:37] All right.
[00:24:37] So fast forward to the last year.
[00:24:39] Right.
[00:24:40] First and foremost, I think the most important part about leveraging this technology and understanding what it all is does go back to those data foundations.
[00:24:48] So we're not going to go and repeat everything I said before about data integrity and volume.
[00:24:53] But garbage in garbage out has applied from the get go on everything in business.
[00:25:00] And so we should just understand and accept that that's a starting point.
[00:25:05] Right.
[00:25:05] So if you've got the right right inputs for this thing.
[00:25:09] So then what?
[00:25:10] Right.
[00:25:12] We need to look at this whole thing as in terms of AI, gen AI as an enabler.
[00:25:17] Right.
[00:25:17] We talk about people, process and technology and how those three need to work together in harmony to produce optimal outcomes.
[00:25:24] Right.
[00:25:25] Right.
[00:25:25] The capabilities that are unlocked with these advancements and the new technologies or the evolving technologies.
[00:25:33] They should speed process and they should free people.
[00:25:37] Right.
[00:25:37] Overall.
[00:25:38] That's my that's my vantage point on it.
[00:25:40] You know, there's that old adage.
[00:25:42] We used to talk about another big CPG on my resume that I worked for.
[00:25:46] But, you know, I would quote, I would have written a shorter letter, but I ran out of time.
[00:25:52] Right.
[00:25:52] That's particularly impactful when it comes to what I think we have here in front of us and the benefits of AI, gen AI helping people overall.
[00:26:03] You can't sacrifice clarity.
[00:26:06] Right.
[00:26:06] Right.
[00:26:07] You have to be extremely efficient to communicate in this world.
[00:26:10] Right.
[00:26:11] That communication could be internally writing a deck or it could be a copy optimization for the digital shelf.
[00:26:17] Right.
[00:26:17] Get into the meta tags and all that other stuff.
[00:26:19] Like there's a lot of clarity that you need to be able to have in your delivery of information, visuals, you know, brand asset cues, all that good stuff.
[00:26:29] Right.
[00:26:30] But as these like months have turned into a year or so of living with gen AI and the toolkit.
[00:26:35] I don't know, my hypothesis from the start continues to prove itself out that it's going to be an enabler that can power productivity in ways we're going to have to continue to experiment to really find out about.
[00:26:49] So that's one side of the ledger.
[00:26:51] And I think you're absolutely right.
[00:26:52] And that makes a ton of sense.
[00:26:54] But if we go to the other side of the ledger, which is the ability potential.
[00:26:59] And we're seeing it now in some places where AI can also propel growth through, you know, like better SEO conversion and sorry, better SEO results and driving higher conversion by automated AI, you know, at the moment improvements.
[00:27:23] And maybe that goes back to, so clearly that's an efficiency play, but it's also like, I could be wringing growth out of this.
[00:27:29] Do you believe in that side?
[00:27:31] Do you think it's anywhere where, you know, does it have as much potential on the growth boosting side, do you think?
[00:27:41] Short answer.
[00:27:42] Yes.
[00:27:43] The potential thing.
[00:27:44] It really is.
[00:27:45] And that's where some of the experiments lie.
[00:27:47] Right.
[00:27:48] In terms of what we're doing.
[00:27:49] Yeah, I think what you're, what we're at the forefront of is an explosion forward that's going to get, that's going to find a way to sort itself out in terms of how, how high is high when it comes to what it can unlock.
[00:28:06] When I think of it as an enabler of all those things that you just mentioned and more, it's filling a gap of work that can't get done right now based on the modern commercial construct.
[00:28:19] Right.
[00:28:20] There's not enough people to even power how highly efficient this process can be overall.
[00:28:25] Overall.
[00:28:26] And so if you, if you're, you know, we, when I was back at Newell Brands, we owned Yankee Candle and there was a singular, we bought another candle brand.
[00:28:41] Right.
[00:28:41] And they had a couple of really amazing power SKUs and they had a couple of people in an office and they were just doing awesome work.
[00:28:48] Right.
[00:28:50] We were like, how do you do all this?
[00:28:51] Like, well, this is what I do every day.
[00:28:54] Right.
[00:28:54] Right.
[00:28:55] Okay.
[00:28:56] Well, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:28:57] Right.
[00:28:57] You have time to do exactly this and it's yielding tremendous results.
[00:29:03] That sticks with me.
[00:29:05] Right.
[00:29:05] When you've got bigger portfolios, wider SKUs, multiple categories, thousands of different iterations of basically your stuff globally.
[00:29:14] Right.
[00:29:15] When you step back from the whole thing.
[00:29:19] If we do it perfectly against everything, the upside's not, you know, it's not linear when it all comes down to it.
[00:29:26] And then if everybody else is doing the same thing or trying to eventually they crack it themselves, then, then what happens with the technology?
[00:29:33] What's the technology going to tell you then?
[00:29:35] Right.
[00:29:35] Go to bed.
[00:29:36] Yeah.
[00:29:37] Go to bed.
[00:29:37] We got this.
[00:29:38] But you're not going to grow anymore.
[00:29:40] So it's over.
[00:29:41] Right.
[00:29:41] Yeah.
[00:29:41] So what's that next frontier?
[00:29:43] Right.
[00:29:44] Like, that's what I think is, it's the thing to always kind of caution against.
[00:29:49] It's, you know, can you be the first mover?
[00:29:51] Can you solve for this for your businesses and what you have?
[00:29:55] Can you focus it enough to really deliver?
[00:29:58] Right.
[00:29:58] On those gaps that your current people process tech haven't enabled.
[00:30:03] Right.
[00:30:03] If you can crack that, awesome.
[00:30:06] Right.
[00:30:07] Then what?
[00:30:08] Right.
[00:30:09] And that's what's fun being in my role, my position is we get to think through and work through both ends of that.
[00:30:17] Right.
[00:30:17] Both ends of the ledger.
[00:30:19] Right.
[00:30:19] Yeah.
[00:30:19] We get to say, what can this do for us right now?
[00:30:22] And then if we, and then how can we do this at scale?
[00:30:25] And then where is that going to go next?
[00:30:27] But then we've got to not necessarily confuse everybody in the here and now with where the next goes.
[00:30:33] Yeah.
[00:30:34] You have to sort of, you know, you talked about sort of your company making AI clean to use sort of and sort of coordinating it off.
[00:30:43] And you sort of have to do that with the future versus the present because it can be very distracting.
[00:30:49] Yeah.
[00:30:49] And I think that's one of the biggest challenges in e-com.
[00:30:53] Right.
[00:30:53] When you go back to even the first question.
[00:30:57] Right.
[00:30:57] There's so much that those of us that have been now.
[00:31:02] So I've been in the, what I've been doing this for about seven years where I'm really focused on e-commerce after a dozen or so in more traditional brand marketing and CPG.
[00:31:14] Where is this all going?
[00:31:15] How is this going to change?
[00:31:18] Some of us can really see where that future is going to take us.
[00:31:21] Right.
[00:31:22] But what about right now?
[00:31:24] What do we have to do exactly right now that, and I won't name any names.
[00:31:31] Right.
[00:31:31] But there's a lot of retail, like people talking about retail media.
[00:31:35] Right.
[00:31:35] Retail media platforms.
[00:31:37] And now there's a new one over here.
[00:31:38] There's a new one over here.
[00:31:39] I fly United Airlines, so you can't get mad at me.
[00:31:41] But I don't care about United Airlines retail media network.
[00:31:43] I do not care.
[00:31:44] Stop talking to me.
[00:31:46] Yeah.
[00:31:46] I don't.
[00:31:48] Because the big guys that exist right now, we got a lot of group to pick over there.
[00:31:54] Right.
[00:31:55] We got a lot that we can figure out how to do.
[00:31:57] Right.
[00:31:58] In terms of that.
[00:31:59] And a limited budget.
[00:31:59] Yes.
[00:32:00] And how about that transition from a wartime metaphor to a gentle nutritional one?
[00:32:07] Yes.
[00:32:08] On that side of things in general.
[00:32:11] Right.
[00:32:11] And so how do we keep our focus right here?
[00:32:15] When in the back of my mind, I am thinking about that universe.
[00:32:19] Right.
[00:32:19] I'm thinking about United and Delta and everybody else is going to do this different way to reach
[00:32:24] a consumer in a very heightened space.
[00:32:28] Right.
[00:32:28] Potentially as well on their app and in their plane seat, which sounds a whole lot like
[00:32:33] when I was a regular marketer, the pitch that they would make about advertising at the movie.
[00:32:38] You can't go anywhere.
[00:32:40] Yeah.
[00:32:41] You're stuck.
[00:32:41] Here we are.
[00:32:42] So it's, you know, like all that stuff.
[00:32:44] That's that's one of those big challenges.
[00:32:47] Right.
[00:32:47] We're trying to drive profitability growth right now.
[00:32:51] Maximize both of those two things right now.
[00:32:53] What's it going to take with all that complexity?
[00:32:56] While having an eye towards the future.
[00:32:58] It's fun.
[00:32:58] Lots to think about.
[00:32:59] It's super fun.
[00:33:00] And the thing that keeps coming back up into my head is as you were talking about that cycle
[00:33:05] of, well, at some point, everyone will be good at this.
[00:33:07] And it's it's got to be loyalty.
[00:33:10] It's got to be, you know, because we aren't going to grow.
[00:33:15] We're not growing the population of shoppers and consumers considerably much in this,
[00:33:20] at least in in mature markets.
[00:33:22] Right.
[00:33:23] And so what it what I would imagine it is, is how do I make more of a relationship, be
[00:33:29] able to get more from all of the people that already know us?
[00:33:34] Is that does that ring true at all?
[00:33:36] Is that.
[00:33:37] It brings up a different element of my own philosophy, at least is, you know, we talk about breaking
[00:33:45] down silos.
[00:33:46] Right.
[00:33:46] We talk about collaboration across functions and all that other stuff, which has to happen.
[00:33:52] You will not succeed in this world if you don't do that.
[00:33:56] But at the same time, it helps me mentally to put myself into a certain mental silo.
[00:34:04] Right.
[00:34:04] Which what I describe as.
[00:34:08] My role is to get the product into people's hands to use.
[00:34:12] And I think there is no greater tool to create loyalty than a positive, impactful product experience of all these wonderful things that we're selling across oral care, personal care, home care, pet, skin health.
[00:34:26] Right.
[00:34:26] Those are like we're doing.
[00:34:28] We're producing products that help people overall.
[00:34:31] It's awesome.
[00:34:32] Right.
[00:34:32] It makes me feel good.
[00:34:33] There's how I sleep at night.
[00:34:35] The my role in that is to get those products into people's hands.
[00:34:39] And the role of our partners in the organization is to ensure that that product experience is fantastic and delivers on what they say it's going to deliver on.
[00:34:46] Right.
[00:34:47] Right.
[00:34:47] Because then you'll build the loyalty.
[00:34:49] Right.
[00:34:49] Then you'll build the brand long term.
[00:34:52] And yes, we'll still run heavily branded assets in the marketplaces.
[00:34:58] And if you want to say TV and other stuff like that, yes, we'll build the equity.
[00:35:02] Absolutely.
[00:35:02] The product experience is king.
[00:35:05] And my role is to get that product into people's hands and to tear down all the inertia that gets in the way of trying to take things from a product detail page to someone's house.
[00:35:18] That's what we're trying to do.
[00:35:19] And trying to get people to the product detail page overall.
[00:35:23] So.
[00:35:24] Well, that is a closing statement for president.
[00:35:27] Mic drop.
[00:35:28] Exactly.
[00:35:29] Boom.
[00:35:30] Boom.
[00:35:32] Jamie, thank you so much.
[00:35:34] You know, first of all, well, hey, I'm going to like clip that out and play it to people and put an anthem behind it because that was truly cool.
[00:35:44] Like that's one of the things I love about this community is that people really get excited about the capacity to to to change how we work and to make it work better for the consumer.
[00:35:58] And to win on those terms.
[00:36:00] And I just love it.
[00:36:01] Thank you for for doing that.
[00:36:04] Well, thank you guys for having me because I know we had the prep call and I told you at that call, I said, listen, I always listen to what you guys are doing and talking about.
[00:36:13] And so just even having a prep call with you guys was exciting for me.
[00:36:16] So thank you.
[00:36:17] Thank you.
[00:36:18] You guys are doing such a service to those that are out there that on behalf of them, I want to I want to thank you guys because for anybody who listens knows the value.
[00:36:27] And it's it's immeasurable because a lot of times we're out there on our own.
[00:36:32] Well, that's exactly why we started the DSI.
[00:36:36] It's why Lauren puts more energy than I sometimes want her to making it happen because she's going to kill herself.
[00:36:45] But we we love it.
[00:36:48] And and, you know, and I also do, though, do need to thank you, because when you said Yankee Candle, I grew up on Cape Cod.
[00:36:55] And that was where in Hyannis, where the original I grew up in Austria, but that's where the original Yankee Candle factory was.
[00:37:02] And I'll just never forget.
[00:37:05] It's like a childhood memory, the smell of wax in the air and sort of the it was like this wonderful, amazing sort of as opposed to being near the Cape Cod potatoes factory, which became this very sort of fetid, oily smell over as the day went on.
[00:37:23] But Yankee Candle was always this beautiful kind of lovely experience.
[00:37:27] So just thanks for bringing that little nostalgia back for me.
[00:37:32] Now new alones.
[00:37:34] That's the way we go.
[00:37:36] So, again, Jamie, just we're so appreciative.
[00:37:40] A number of things that you said in here will get clipped and and shared out in addition to the whole episode.
[00:37:46] And we're truly grateful for you giving back to the DSI.
[00:37:49] All right.
[00:37:50] All good.
[00:37:50] Thank you.
[00:37:52] Thank you, Jamie.
[00:37:54] Thanks again to Jamie for all the wisdom.
[00:37:56] More wisdom on tap at DigitalShelfInstitute.org.
[00:37:59] Stay on top of it all by becoming a member.
[00:38:02] Thanks for being part of our community.